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Old 08.08.2021, 11:06
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Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the elderly

Today, everywhere, is so unfair to the elderly.

If they don’t have internet, suppliers often add a franc or two for a paper invoice, yet it is our elderly, Swiss or foreign, who have the least money.

Now the billing system is changing, and all future invoices will have QR codes, so what happens to our elderly if they don’t know how to use a smart phone correctly?

Most appointments all over the world are online, and sometimes menus in restaurants are accessed via a QR code.

If they want to travel, it’s an uphill battle on their knees with all paper work done electronically.

We don’t see them, if they cannot run fast enough to keep up with all the technology required to live a simple daily life.
They become transparent, everywhere.

And yet they are a world of experience, of history, of stories.
It seems that nobody takes the time anymore to listen.
Everywhere, not just here.

Does anybody else have this impression or is it just an irrational thought?
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Old 08.08.2021, 11:17
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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Today, everywhere, is so unfair to the elderly.

If they dont have internet, suppliers often add a franc or two for a paper invoice, yet it is our elderly, Swiss or foreign, who have the least money.

Now the billing system is changing, and all future invoices will have QR codes, so what happens to our elderly if they dont know how to use a smart phone correctly?

Most appointments all over the world are online, and sometimes menus in restaurants are accessed via a QR code.

If they want to travel, its an uphill battle on their knees with all paper work done electronically.


We dont see them, if they cannot run fast enough to keep up with all the technology required to live a simple daily life.
They become transparent, everywhere.

And yet they are a world of experience, of history, of stories.
It seems that nobody takes the time anymore to listen.
Everywhere, not just here.

Does anybody else have this impression or is it just an irrational thought?
I think you make valid points. I suppose this is why we need to watch out for others in our communities. Not always sure how to do this. Multiple generation families are becoming rare in many societies.
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Old 08.08.2021, 11:21
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

What is "old"?

I'm not.
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Old 08.08.2021, 11:47
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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What is "old"?

I'm not.
Its subjective. I dont believe I am old either.
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Old 08.08.2021, 11:55
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

Le coeur na pas de rides
The heart has no wrinkles.

You go bowie!! 😊

I agree with you ennui, if only we could find a way to do more for them.
Its a technical electronic jungle for many of them today.
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Old 08.08.2021, 11:56
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

Is there some sort of charity here where tech-savvy, but patient people can volunteer to teach people* how to use online and mobile services?

*I specifically didn't say old people because some are very tech-knowledgeable and/or take to it like a duck to water. Some younger people can have real problems.
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Old 08.08.2021, 12:05
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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Today, everywhere, is so unfair to the elderly.

If they dont have internet, suppliers often add a franc or two for a paper invoice, yet it is our elderly, Swiss or foreign, who have the least money.
My father would be 93, when he was alive he used email & religiously printed all pdf invoices. He was far from tech savvy.

My wife's step mother of 76 does everything digitally, are my experiences so unusual?
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Old 08.08.2021, 12:12
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

You are old when everyone you think is older than you is actually younger.

Tom
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Old 08.08.2021, 12:21
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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My father would be 93, when he was alive he used email & religiously printed all pdf invoices. He was far from tech savvy.

My wife's step mother of 76 does everything digitally, are my experiences so unusual?
I'm with your dad, I print all my invoices off.

What annoys me most is slowly, but surely being pushed towards having to have a mobile phone, even though I have absolutely no need of one, just because more and more things require you to verify with an SMS message or some code sent to you on the damn thing. I was trying to log into the HMRC website the other week to do the accounts for our dormant UK company; guess what can only do that now with a mobile or tablet, neither of which I use/have. So what do I do now?

I get that it's the way the world is going, but I really wish they'd keep alternatives so those of us who don't have/want a mobile can still access things via a simple e-mail like before. Put a disclaimer in saying on our heads be it if something goes wrong, but at least give us other damn options people!
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Old 08.08.2021, 12:30
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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My father would be 93, when he was alive he used email & religiously printed all pdf invoices. He was far from tech savvy.

My wife's step mother of 76 does everything digitally, are my experiences so unusual?
Yes, I think they are unusual.

I also knew a man, aged over 80 when his wife unexpectedly died, about three or four years ago, I think, He told me that, for decades, she had always done all their admin, finances, bills, etc.. He told me it had been a struggle for him to sort everything out. I asked whether he had had help, or needed any. "Well," he relied, "at the beginning I had to write to everyone and ask them to send me a copy of the latest statements. But since I've got it all up and running on e-banking, I'm doing fine."

However, he added that he had already been able to do mails, to surf and do photoshop, before he ever had to do banking or appointments online.

He also said that only when he had to learn it all, did he realise that no-one he knew, of his contemporaries, could do any of that, and most did not own and had never used a pc or a laptop, and that he had had to ask for help from his children and grandchildren. He said, too, that many of his friends reported that they are dependent upon the younger generation to make their bookings, etc., or fill in online forms.

These are the people that Sky means, and yes, I agree with you, Sky, that this applies to many people who are retired - unless they have either been working in professions or pursued hobbies which kept them up-to-date with the changes in technology. Now, they're in a gap: either forced to fiddle rather apprehensively with their smartphones, or to depend on help from outside.

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Does anybody else have this impression or is it just an irrational thought?
No, not irrational at all. Observant and compassionate.
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Old 08.08.2021, 12:39
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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Is there some sort of charity here where tech-savvy, but patient people can volunteer to teach people* how to use online and mobile services?

*I specifically didn't say old people because some are very tech-knowledgeable and/or take to it like a duck to water. Some younger people can have real problems.
Perhaps, but this would be regional, the local branch of pro senectute. That's an organisation to promote the interests of the aged. They are partly government funded, and offer advice about, for example, getting in nursing or going into a retirement home. There is also pro juventute which does tries to do the equivalent help, for that phase of life, for young people. And pro mente sana for people with psychological ill-health. And pro infirmis for people with disabilities.

At least pro senectute and pro infirmis offer a service whereby a volunteer goes to visit someone who needs help with their general administration. The volunteer has to have passed a day-course at pro senectute, and be deemed serious. When they do the home visits, they help the person open their post, sort out the documents, work out which bills need to be paid, (but the volunteer cannot touch the money), which letters need to be written. They then do these things together, right there, in the person's home.

I would imagine, but don't know, that such a volunteer could also teach the person how to do all these things online, too.


In addition, some local municipalities or community centres, and some churches (even for people who have no religious or spiritual affinity to the church) offer so-called writing workshops, which are to do much the same thing as above, but typically not in the person's home but in the church/centre, to help people understand the letters they get, and fill in forms, etc. There, too, there is probably room for teaching internet skills.


If one would like to volunteer outside of an organisation, it's possible to put up an add on rent-a-rentner, which is a website helping retired people (mainly, but actually anyone can join) to offer their services, if they would still like to work a little on the side. One can state an hourly rate, or can be willing to work for free. It's a great idea, but unfortunately the website is terribly implemented and so, paradoxically, very challenging to use for the very people who might really need it.
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Old 08.08.2021, 12:47
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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My father would be 93, when he was alive he used email & religiously printed all pdf invoices. He was far from tech savvy.

My wife's step mother of 76 does everything digitally, are my experiences so unusual?
my Dad at 76 was never into tech and can barely use his answer machine. he just doesn't want to. he's managed without it so far although there are times when he get stuck when registering for things on line which he can't do.

I've been tempted to get him a simple iPAD so he can see photos on FB and so on but I don't think he'd use it.
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Old 08.08.2021, 12:55
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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My father would be 93, when he was alive he used email & religiously printed all pdf invoices. He was far from tech savvy.

My wife's step mother of 76 does everything digitally, are my experiences so unusual?
Its a range of abilities. My late FIL used Skype on his iMac and email, as did my late father. My elderly aunts, both died in the last 5 years at 95 and 96, used no technology but kept everything on paper. Europeans are probably more used to ebanking than Americans. But in both of our situations, I suspect all family members had some forms of social support, and were not isolated.
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Old 08.08.2021, 13:18
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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My father would be 93, when he was alive he used email & religiously printed all pdf invoices. He was far from tech savvy.

My wife's step mother of 76 does everything digitally, are my experiences so unusual?
Nope, everybody who we know over 70 or who we travelled with bought their tix online, whatsapped their loved ones and read news and travel updates online. People around us have smartphones, download apps, read research papers online, etc.

But - I am not old but prefer to shop in a regular store to justify their presence and people's jobs. If a regular store is too pricey, I prefer not buying anything. I never fell into the digital fever...excepts some graphic design, music, data sources, learning. Learning from paper has been proven longer lasting, too, than screens.

A mix of old school and new trends but it is not a matter of age but of one's choice.

Digital bills are just to save human labor, so I don't believe that ecology argument. It's cost effective. Datastoring is not bulletproof, yet, either. So - I think the beef I have is with the reality not corresponding to the selling points.Aside of the access to all.
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Old 08.08.2021, 13:49
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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What annoys me most is slowly, but surely being pushed towards having to have a mobile phone, even though I have absolutely no need of one, just because more and more things require you to verify with an SMS message or some code sent to you on the damn thing.
It's because 2-factor authentication is becoming (or has already become) standard for all sensitive online services and the most secure and practical way to implement these is via a personal mobile phone that someone generally has on their person. With online attacks and data vreaches becoming more sophisticated, this stuff has to be enforced to stop vulnerable people (like you know, the elderly) from losing their money via fraud etc.

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I get that it's the way the world is going, but I really wish they'd keep alternatives so those of us who don't have/want a mobile can still access things via a simple e-mail like before. Put a disclaimer in saying on our heads be it if something goes wrong, but at least give us other damn options people!
From a security perspective, for people who are resistant/ignorant to proper security measures to have a say in what level of security they get for their sensitive online services is the last thing that should happen. "Simple emails" are not secure.
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Old 08.08.2021, 14:48
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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My father would be 93, when he was alive he used email & religiously printed all pdf invoices. He was far from tech savvy.

My wife's step mother of 76 does everything digitally, are my experiences so unusual?
Yes I believe your family is exceptional.
Many elderly cannot manage the technology and they feel genuinely lost.
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Old 08.08.2021, 14:57
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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It's because 2-factor authentication is becoming (or has already become) standard for all sensitive online services and the most secure and practical way to implement these is via a personal mobile phone that someone generally has on their person. With online attacks and data vreaches becoming more sophisticated, this stuff has to be enforced to stop vulnerable people (like you know, the elderly) from losing their money via fraud etc.



From a security perspective, for people who are resistant/ignorant to proper security measures to have a say in what level of security they get for their sensitive online services is the last thing that should happen. "Simple emails" are not secure.

Can anybody imagine how daunting it must feel for an elderly person when they get phoned by a computer checking numbers?
One felt so intimidated by it he asked me if I could help reinstall his old phone (the old telecom 4 plug) so that he could have his real telephone back. Bless him.
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Old 08.08.2021, 15:03
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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Is there some sort of charity here where tech-savvy, but patient people can volunteer to teach people* how to use online and mobile services?
Yes, it's called grandchildren

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*I specifically didn't say old people because some are very tech-knowledgeable and/or take to it like a duck to water. Some younger people can have real problems.
From people in my family, I believe it is not a question of patience or teaching, but that some things are just beyond their grasp or willoingness to learn. What it needs is interfaces and devices designed with non tech-knowledgeable people in mind. The technology needs to adapt to the people, not vice versa.

For example I recently saw a telephone. It looked just like an old fashioned desk telephone with big buttons (big enough for those with bad eyesight or clumsy fingers) and a receiver on a hook. Just like phones in decades past. But it didn't connect to a landline but to a mobile. This is the sort of thinking we need more of. Not bling phones that are loaded with apps upon apps.
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Old 08.08.2021, 15:26
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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It's because 2-factor authentication is becoming (or has already become) standard for all sensitive online services and the most secure and practical way to implement these is via a personal mobile phone that someone generally has on their person. With online attacks and data vreaches becoming more sophisticated, this stuff has to be enforced to stop vulnerable people (like you know, the elderly) from losing their money via fraud etc.



From a security perspective, for people who are resistant/ignorant to proper security measures to have a say in what level of security they get for their sensitive online services is the last thing that should happen. "Simple emails" are not secure.
Then as said, put out a disclaimer that if it goes wrong when using an e-mail then whatever company it is isn't liable for any losses incurred.

Being forced to use a mobile for no other reason than companies think they're more secure - and I'd argue that point - just grates on me when I have no need or reason to have one otherwise. Landline and PC work perfectly well for me.

And there's no reason they can't set up something in their apps which could work on desktops. Authy already has a desktop version, though admittedly you need to use the damn phone for the initial set up with any particular website. But that's been a godsend for me using Discord social media when Discord throws a wobbly and wants me to log in again. I can do it from my desktop without needing to use hubby's mobile. He's not always around when I need to log in.

All this is doing is forcing people like me who don't want a mobile or others who aren't tech savvy into either not using the internet at all for many things or having to do stuff in person like paying bills or the "old fashioned" method of posting payments to companies.
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Old 08.08.2021, 15:28
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

A word to the wise, when someone departs this mortal world, do not cancel their phone contract immediately.
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