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  #41  
Old 13.08.2021, 11:27
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Not here, same price 24/7

Tom
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Not joking.

I've moved a few times and everytime I got a welcome package with various items, usually the trash and recycling timetable and emergency numbers, and one of them even gave a gentle reminder to clean up after your pets.

If the gemeinde is unusually strict and expects people to behave, then would it be surprising that they provide at least some sort of guidance?
Gemeinden who do that send it to everybody, the Swiss too.

I keep getting such stuff after 12 years here. One that annoys me is the "we stack/pack our carton here like this" which bloody changes all the time! LOL.
With string, without string ...if you do the wrong thing at the time they want it differently, they leave it on the road. So the way to go I decided is do it as I think it's neat and take the chance.

Last time I was in Munich though, a friend had about 10 different bags for trash which in the end all had to go into different bins. And it's controlled as well apparently. I stopped trying after a day and just handed things over to her to throw it in the right one, drove home and was quiet happy with the - in comparison - relaxed Swiss system.

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I've lived in several different places and the only welcome pack I've got has been the bill for registering
Adliswil used to do a welcome-Apéro for people who moved into town!! I didn't follow my invitation but when my husband moved in, he insisted we go.

Considering how much they built there over the years, I suspect they gave up on that.
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  #42  
Old 13.08.2021, 11:38
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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What is interesting there - you get diverse ideas and Comments. What is quite strange for me here, in the EF and also in other Groups Online - that the majority say - ye, well, these are the Rules einfach so ur the problematic one.

Why is it like that? What makes u all feel that way?

Do you know how great is is when Foreigners bring their different Cultures and Mentality and experience? It is like in Multi Culti Companies - it really creates a more balanced atmosphere.
You make more out of this than there is. You can start questioning the "rules", and yes, some may be stupid. You will not get far, but only end up frustrating yourself and possibly others. It is simply not worth it for these petty things.

And it is not like these rules are making this an "unfree" place. You will get to appreciate how deeply rooted civil liberties here are if you look a bit farther than to recycling and the opening hours of the football pitch.

Oh yeah, and you are in Schwyz now. Promoting "multi-kulti" really goes down well here. Ideally paired with a comparison how much better things are in Germany But rest assured, Nidwalden would have been the same.

By the way, didn't we want to go for a beer some day?
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  #43  
Old 13.08.2021, 11:55
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Yes.

If you don't like the rules, start a petition to change them.

Tom
Interesting idea, I actually managed to lead and change some ideas / parts of Law back Home. But what do u think? I get the feeling that Petitions, unless on a huge scale, do not really work. And here, come on, how many people will join me ?
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  #44  
Old 13.08.2021, 11:56
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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You make more out of this than there is. You can start questioning the "rules", and yes, some may be stupid. You will not get far, but only end up frustrating yourself and possibly others. It is simply not worth it for these petty things.

And it is not like these rules are making this an "unfree" place. You will get to appreciate how deeply rooted civil liberties here are if you look a bit farther than to recycling and the opening hours of the football pitch.

Oh yeah, and you are in Schwyz now. Promoting "multi-kulti" really goes down well here. Ideally paired with a comparison how much better things are in Germany But rest assured, Nidwalden would have been the same.

By the way, didn't we want to go for a beer some day?
Yes we did, but to be honest, i promised my Wife I will not "push" People into meeting, so I am waiting that you will ask
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  #45  
Old 13.08.2021, 12:09
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Interesting idea, I actually managed to lead and change some ideas / parts of Law back Home. But what do u think? I get the feeling that Petitions, unless on a huge scale, do not really work. And here, come on, how many people will join me ?
How would you present your issue to have community support?

Have you thought about the community reacting in a defensive way because they have dealt with new elements that had problems to adjust? Over and over and over.. What would petition do aside of making your family feel unwelcome? Why do you consider your addition to the community as beneficial? How did you positively contribute already, aside of complaining?

I am really not trying to criticize and flame you, but only think that maybe understanding some behavior 1st might explain some knee-jerk reactions. On all sides. It is not evident when one shows up here.

Questioning and innovation is a really good thing, I completely support you there. You just gotta think about the other side, because they might interpret your interest to innovate simply as doing things your way for your own convenience while ignoring their needs and reasons. Show them you appreciate their place and that you will work to earn yours? None of us would make it here if we considered and sold ourselves as some divine god's gifts that people have to adjust to.
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  #46  
Old 13.08.2021, 12:18
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Interesting idea, I actually managed to lead and change some ideas / parts of Law back Home. But what do u think? I get the feeling that Petitions, unless on a huge scale, do not really work. And here, come on, how many people will join me ?
What would the petition be about? Opening hours? Been done several times to no avail. Cooler people? Smarter people? Exchange of the population?

Why do you believe not enough people will join you? Are you not convinced yourself?
Your wife is Swiss, you can do it together. Anything you desire you can start collecting signatures for. Pretty cool actually, no?
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  #47  
Old 13.08.2021, 12:25
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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And if I may add, in each Country there are lots of disagreements amongst foreigners about the local Mentality,
Astonishing: various foreign nationalities unable to agree upon whose take on the local mentality has more merit

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Do you know how great is is when Foreigners bring their different Cultures and Mentality and experience? It is like in Multi Culti Companies - it really creates a more balanced atmosphere.
Truely embracing “multi-kulti” should, IMHO, include those small minorities who reject such ideas. I always thought it a bit mean to denigrate those less enlightened as yourself
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  #48  
Old 13.08.2021, 12:52
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Our property backs onto a junior school with a ping-pong table and basketball court. Great potential for noise.

There are clear signs at the entrances stating that the area is closed from 21.00 Monday to Friday and 19.00 at weekends. Also that it opens at 11.00 on Sundays.

There is also a reminder of the Mittagsruhezeit (midday quiet time) of 12.00 to 13.00.

All times are observed and enforced if not.

I love Switzerland...
I actually started playing PinGPong with my Son during Corona and depends on the Table it may be very loud, so I do not need a Sign or a Rule, I will just not play under Buildings after 20 i guess. But now comes what people here sometimes do not understand - it is about switching ON this little Brain we have and assessing each situation. Under Building no. But a Ping Pong Table at the Park / Lake, it really bothers someone if we play after 22 or whatever? Apparently here in CH it hurts the Eyes of people if they walk on the Street and see someone endangering Society with a Ping Pong Game. So it all about balance, I see it is not really being practiced here.

P.S. anybody here around Zurich Lake would like to meet for Ping Pong? I promise to obey the Rules
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  #49  
Old 13.08.2021, 12:56
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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You took 2 8 year olds out to play ball at 10pm??
What time do kids go to bed these days?

This was my thought as well. Plus there are rules/laws about kids being out alone on the street at night - and if I saw two 8 year olds playing outside on the street late at night I would certainly wonder where the parents were....
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  #50  
Old 13.08.2021, 13:06
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

Some people open threads just to let off some steam and moan, and some do try to understand the norms in the new place to which they've moved. Although your posts come across as rather dismissive of the way things are done (by norm, practice, rules and law) where you now live, even so, you've said this:
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And please, I really try to understand, telling me "just accept the Rules" does not help, we know where just accepting Rules can take Life...
and that's a good start.

Although you don't want to hear it, it is so that rulz is rulz, and we all gotta follow them. Questioning them is not a bad idea at all, but that's not the same as necessarily getting upset by them, or even deciding to disobey them. Part of questioning is learning about the original reasons for the rule. And if you ever were to want to try to change something, including gathering others around you who might agree with your proposal, (let's just say, as an example, you might prefer the playground where you were to be open until 23h, or 24h, or round the clock), it'd be wise to know what was considered troublesome, before, such that anyone even bothered to set up the rule in the first place. Only when you know which evidence the pro-rule camp would bring, can you learn how to formulate your opposing proposal - if at all.

Fortunately, the security guard gave you just that info:
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He toldme that now it is quiet in Lachen, before they enforced this Law they have on Weekends 350 Calls !! at the Evenings... Go figure how from about 8000 Citizens ( I assume around 3000 House Holds in total? you actually get such a Number of Calls?
That means that there were enough people who would have gathered support for a law about this, and many more who would have voted for it, at the time. They would have done so because
  • they themselves were affected by the noise, or
  • they understood how annoying it must be for others, or for some other reason, for example
  • to cut down on the costs the municipality had to bear, of all those working hours that the police (and/or a security company) spent on attending to such calls.
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  #51  
Old 13.08.2021, 13:09
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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And why do I care so much?

Cause now my Son got really scared and first thought this is the Police and now is worried about it. Great Welcoming from the good people of Lachen. Thumbs up !
This part is the easiest for you to deal with. You can allay your son's fears right away, and there is no need for him to remain worried, at all. You have this part entirely within your own power.

Your son knows you, and he knows that you question things, and that you encourage him to qeustion, too, which is not a bad but a good thing. Tell him that, even so, you want him to grow up as a law-abiding citizen.

Fortunately, your son is old enough to understand what happened, if he has it explained to him.

You can tell him, honestly, that you were very surprised when the security guard told you to leave, because it would never have occurred to you that there could be any such rule (about 22h00 closing of the playground). Apologise to him that you got him into a situation in which he, his friend and you seemed to "get into trouble", and make sure he understands that this uneasy situation happened only because you hadn't yet learnt about that rule. Assure him that you are all safe, and there is no trouble at all, neither with the police nor with the security guard who, in fact, was quite friendly and laughing together with you, and explained the rule. Moreover, now that you all know the rule, you can enjoy the playground fully and freely, during its opening hours.

Make your son aware that there might be other rules about which you and he (and even his mother, if she's lived outside of Switzerland for a while, or not lived in that municipality before) simply may not yet know. Therefore, it's possible that, as you go along, someone else might come and tell you that you're doing it wrong. Explain to him that, if and when that happens, it need not bring trouble, either. Then, you'll enquire about the background for a rule and that that will most likely help you to understand why the rule is in place, even if you don't happen to like it.
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  #52  
Old 13.08.2021, 13:10
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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I actually started playing PinGPong with my Son during Corona and depends on the Table it may be very loud, so I do not need a Sign or a Rule, I will just not play under Buildings after 20 i guess. But now comes what people here sometimes do not understand - it is about switching ON this little Brain we have and assessing each situation. Under Building no. But a Ping Pong Table at the Park / Lake, it really bothers someone if we play after 22 or whatever? Apparently here in CH it hurts the Eyes of people if they walk on the Street and see someone endangering Society with a Ping Pong Game. So it all about balance, I see it is not really being practiced here.

P.S. anybody here around Zurich Lake would like to meet for Ping Pong? I promise to obey the Rules
Ahhhh, THAT's what it is! So glad you came around and englightened us all.
You're a funny person. If it wern't so old, it would be amusing.

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This was my thought as well. Plus there are rules/laws about kids being out alone on the street at night - and if I saw two 8 year olds playing outside on the street late at night I would certainly wonder where the parents were....
I think that's England. Kids under 16 can stay out there until 22.00h (the magic hour OP doesn't like, LOL) and with permission of their parents even longer but then must go straight home when what ever they attended finishes.
Kids of all ages can be out there all night long if they're in company of a parent.

Yes, I had to look that up. Again, link is random first pick and don't pin me down on other stuff, I didn't read all of it.
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  #53  
Old 13.08.2021, 13:47
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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This was my thought as well. Plus there are rules/laws about kids being out alone on the street at night - and if I saw two 8 year olds playing outside on the street late at night I would certainly wonder where the parents were....
Hemm, I think I wrote I was with them.<
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  #54  
Old 13.08.2021, 13:50
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Ahhhh, THAT's what it is! So glad you came around and englightened us all.
You're a funny person. If it wern't so old, it would be amusing.


I think that's England. Kids under 16 can stay out there until 22.00h (the magic hour OP doesn't like, LOL) and with permission of their parents even longer but then must go straight home when what ever they attended finishes.
Kids of all ages can be out there all night long if they're in company of a parent.

Yes, I had to look that up. Again, link is random first pick and don't pin me down on other stuff, I didn't read all of it.
Sorry curley, did not understand what you meant. Well, except that I am funny. Does not it make sense what I wrote?
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  #55  
Old 13.08.2021, 14:15
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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This was my thought as well. Plus there are rules/laws about kids being out alone on the street at night - and if I saw two 8 year olds playing outside on the street late at night I would certainly wonder where the parents were....
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I think that's England. Kids under 16 can stay out there until 22.00h (the magic hour OP doesn't like, LOL) and with permission of their parents even longer but then must go straight home when what ever they attended finishes.
Kids of all ages can be out there all night long if they're in company of a parent.
.
There are no such laws in England - the actual laws are opposite to what you think - namely that Switzerland has, as you quoted, a whole set of laws but the U.K. has none.

However, the law would take a dim view of an irresponsible parent who put their young child in danger.

What Kri wrote just about sums it up, she would wonder where the parents are and if needed, she'd probably do something about it if the children were in danger.
You don't need a law for that - just community spirit and a moral duty.
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  #56  
Old 13.08.2021, 14:17
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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So I guess it may be a Mentality differene, as where I come from you are raised to always question, yes also in Kita, in School and later in Military. And like i did, I obeyed, but then I question.

It is actually a good thing, questioning brings new ideas, innovation.. BTW - 22 and Schluss. Would u also say that if it was 20 and Schluss.

But I get your point, u say - just suck it up. I respect this thought, it works for many people.
I completely agree with you, questioning is good, I question and challenge at work all the time, but I always come with solutions. I have been around a lot of people who question for question sake and they are people that generally love the sound of their own voice, but bring very little.

I understand that in your instance a bit of discretion would have been helpful, as it doesn't sound like you were causing a fuss or making a noise, but whose discretion and who decides what is acceptable or not. It's so complex that a hard and fast rule is much better.

These open areas are notorious for rowdy kids and I can imagine living around them would be difficult without these rules. Imagine new parents with a baby: sleep deprived, trying to get a baby to sleep and then having disturbances from outside.

Don't think of it as 'sucking it up', but think of it as other people's and your right to peace and quiet being protected.
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Old 13.08.2021, 14:17
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Do you know how great is is when Foreigners bring their different Cultures and Mentality and experience? It is like in Multi Culti Companies - it really creates a more balanced atmosphere.

That's not really welcoming difference, though, as most of them will be similarly educated, similarly wealthy, having had similar opportunities and upbringings. It's a feigned attempt at pretending to welcome different types of people.


It's easy to get swept away in thinking signs of different skin tones or accents indicate a more hospitable environment for all citizens.


It's why investors need to up their game, and ask better questions, should they really care about removing barriers to entry.
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  #58  
Old 13.08.2021, 16:49
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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That's not really welcoming difference, though, as most of them will be similarly educated, similarly wealthy, having had similar opportunities and upbringings. It's a feigned attempt at pretending to welcome different types of people.


It's easy to get swept away in thinking signs of different skin tones or accents indicate a more hospitable environment for all citizens.


It's why investors need to up their game, and ask better questions, should they really care about removing barriers to entry.
Quite harsh words! This is really getting tricky now.
Not even when I’ve been “swept away” (where to?) by different skin tone and accent in my immediate environment, work or play, can I rest my vigilance about signs of false hospitality for all citizens...
...no wonder I never get any work done
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  #59  
Old 13.08.2021, 23:39
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Cause now my Son got really scared and first thought this is the Police and now is worried about it.
I don't think he should be worried. He was doing something that was forbidden by the community, someone came and informed you about the rules, he was relatively friendly, nobody got a fine and not even a formal warning. I don't see a problem here, just a process of getting to know each other.

I was once riding my bike on a wooden path suspended on water; I was alone and riding very slowly. Then I reached a man who informed me that riding is forbidden, bikes must be carried by hand. I apologized and got off my bike until the end of the suspended trail.

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In our Flat we will not make noise at Evening (after 20), for sure we will not Drill or hang a Nail like others do, we do not even operate the Dish Washer after 20
You should just look into the house rules. If they say that you can make noise until 20, 21 or 22 then you are fully entitled to have a live concert in your living room until 20, 21 or 22, respectively. It is just a way to organize lives, if I need some silent time I can rely on having it in the evening, I give it to the others and I benefit from them. I prefer it instead of being stressed and hoping each evening that it will be a quiet evening, and then neighbors have guests until late...

Dishwashers are in my experience never that noisy, I always operate them late (or very early with the timer). If unsure then do it a couple of weeks and then ask your closest neighbor if they heard anything, don't just stop doing things due to fear, people are not always THAT strict...
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Old 14.08.2021, 00:40
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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I don't think he should be worried. He was doing something that was forbidden by the community, someone came and informed you about the rules, he was relatively friendly, nobody got a fine and not even a formal warning. I don't see a problem here, just a process of getting to know each other.

I was once riding my bike on a wooden path suspended on water; I was alone and riding very slowly. Then I reached a man who informed me that riding is forbidden, bikes must be carried by hand. I apologized and got off my bike until the end of the suspended trail.


You should just look into the house rules. If they say that you can make noise until 20, 21 or 22 then you are fully entitled to have a live concert in your living room until 20, 21 or 22, respectively. It is just a way to organize lives, if I need some silent time I can rely on having it in the evening, I give it to the others and I benefit from them. I prefer it instead of being stressed and hoping each evening that it will be a quiet evening, and then neighbors have guests until late...

Dishwashers are in my experience never that noisy, I always operate them late (or very early with the timer). If unsure then do it a couple of weeks and then ask your closest neighbor if they heard anything, don't just stop doing things due to fear, people are not always THAT strict...
You are aware that also in other Countries Rent Contract have a lot of Clauses about Noise and Order but nobody cares there, it is just for Protokol.

Feels like the people here are "oldy..." what can I say?

There is a say in my Language but I am sure in others as well - "Noise means Life and quiet means Death". Think about it.
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