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Old 14.08.2021, 14:17
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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You are aware that also in other Countries Rent Contract have a lot of Clauses about Noise and Order but nobody cares there, it is just for Protokol.
Fancy that, different coutries have different practices.

Whodda thunk!
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Old 14.08.2021, 14:23
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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You are aware that also in other Countries Rent Contract have a lot of Clauses about Noise and Order but nobody cares there, it is just for Protokol.

Feels like the people here are "oldy..." what can I say?

There is a say in my Language but I am sure in others as well - "Noise means Life and quiet means Death". Think about it.
Speaking of noise, you have now opened several threads to complain about places closing at 10, crap internet, bad driving and ranted (understandably in that case) about the recycling "system".

Not bad for a person who moved here weeks ago and - that's the icing on the cake - has a Swiss wife.

Last edited by komsomolez; 14.08.2021 at 19:53. Reason: language
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  #63  
Old 14.08.2021, 15:56
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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There is a say in my Language but I am sure in others as well - "Noise means Life and quiet means Death". Think about it.
We don't have a positive expression for noise because we don't see anything positive in it. In fact, there is extensive scientific research showing how noise is detrimental to one's health. I guess you, like all "edgy free thinkers", only pay attention to things that fit your own little narrative, otherwise you would know that.

You come across as arrogant, confrontational, inflexible (despite what you think of yourself) and completely unsuited to life in Switzerland. You are constantly referring to your place of origin as evidently superior. You present your mindset as being oh so enlightened and look down on people who enjoy a quieter life that is compatible with many people living in a small space. You are clearly a person who finds a problem for every solution and refuses to accept the fact that some things don't need to change. I feel very sorry for your wife, you sound like an utterly exhausting drain of energy and very hard to integrate into a social circle.

Our system is one of the best I've come across when it comes to living a peaceful, healthy, safe, long life in a pleasant environment. I like my country of birth like this, always have done, even when I was younger. There is no other place like it that I could escape to if it were to change and I would quite honestly not want to live any other way, it would drive me insane. There are plenty of other places where you can live like a wealthy teenager (which seems to be what you are after), feel free to go there but don't you dare try to mess up this special place.

In Switzerland, freedom is not freedom TO but freedom FROM, "erlaubt ist, was nicht stört". If you don't like it, tough nuts, learn to accept it like an adult or go elsewhere. You rant and rave about this backward place and how small-minded people are here but honestly, it's simply a zero tolerance policy towards pompous, disruptive square pegs who are trying to bash their way into a round hole.

Even people who were born here and refuse to fit in are treated this way. So while this particular incident was definitely not personal, it sounds like it won't be long until you p*ss off someone around you enough for them to make you their project. You will no doubt inform us at length of the injustice of it all.
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  #64  
Old 14.08.2021, 18:06
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Speaking about noise, you have now opened several threads to complain about places closing at 10, crap internet, bad driving and ranted (understandably in this case) about the recycling "system".

Not bad for a person who moved here weeks ago and - that's the icing on the cake - has a Swiss wife.
I am quiet sure his wife found him the EF link to get some peace.

And it's not the first time I think that a wife is probably more than glad that her ol' man is ranting on EF instead of to her.

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We don't have a positive expression for noise because we don't see anything positive in it......
Actually the term "positive noise" is a fix term in my vocabulary.

I use it for people chatting an laughing for example. They can do that all night here, I don't mind. So "did you get that, they had a party until 3 am" often gets a "yeah but that was positive noise" from me.
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Old 14.08.2021, 20:25
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Actually the term "positive noice" is a fix term in my vocabulary.

I use it for people chatting an laughing for example. They can do that all night here, I don't mind. So "did you get that, they had a party until 3 am" often gets a "yeah but that was positive noise" from me.
Ah, but that would be a "happy hubbub" rather than noise 😉 And it is dependent on none of the chatters having one of those "hyena on helium" laughs, because those make me want to rip out my ears. Also not a fan of people who raise their voice to talk over others instead of waiting their turn.

I was talking about local expressions though: I'm not aware of any Swiss (German) expressions that put noise in a positive frame, while there are several praising silence or calm. There also seems to be a different cut-off point between a sound (Geräusch) and a noise (Lärm). In English, a noise doesn't have to be negative, while the German Lärm usually is. The sound of kids playing is referred to as Kinderlärm and there have been several court cases in relation to kids being too noisy.
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Old 14.08.2021, 20:49
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Actually the term "positive noice" is a fix term in my vocabulary.
This reminds me of something published during the first lockdown...

https://soundofcolleagues.com/#
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  #67  
Old 14.08.2021, 23:14
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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We don't have a positive expression for noise because we don't see anything positive in it. In fact, there is extensive scientific research showing how noise is detrimental to one's health. I guess you, like all "edgy free thinkers", only pay attention to things that fit your own little narrative, otherwise you would know that.

You come across as arrogant, confrontational, inflexible (despite what you think of yourself) and completely unsuited to life in Switzerland. You are constantly referring to your place of origin as evidently superior. You present your mindset as being oh so enlightened and look down on people who enjoy a quieter life that is compatible with many people living in a small space. You are clearly a person who finds a problem for every solution and refuses to accept the fact that some things don't need to change. I feel very sorry for your wife, you sound like an utterly exhausting drain of energy and very hard to integrate into a social circle.

Our system is one of the best I've come across when it comes to living a peaceful, healthy, safe, long life in a pleasant environment. I like my country of birth like this, always have done, even when I was younger. There is no other place like it that I could escape to if it were to change and I would quite honestly not want to live any other way, it would drive me insane. There are plenty of other places where you can live like a wealthy teenager (which seems to be what you are after), feel free to go there but don't you dare try to mess up this special place.

In Switzerland, freedom is not freedom TO but freedom FROM, "erlaubt ist, was nicht stört". If you don't like it, tough nuts, learn to accept it like an adult or go elsewhere. You rant and rave about this backward place and how small-minded people are here but honestly, it's simply a zero tolerance policy towards pompous, disruptive square pegs who are trying to bash their way into a round hole.

Even people who were born here and refuse to fit in are treated this way. So while this particular incident was definitely not personal, it sounds like it won't be long until you p*ss off someone around you enough for them to make you their project. You will no doubt inform us at length of the injustice of it all.
Oh wow, dont know even where to start, not sure it evens worth replying to.

It is very nice that one takes a Subject and instead of speaking about it - goes personally and talks about the Person. How can I even approach it?

Does being not nice goes with Seniority here?

BTW luckily I am not like these kind People here who call on Kids sitting at Parks / LightBulbs too strong / Garage Door opens too much / ect, cause then I would have probably complained about you to the EF. Is there a Book of Rules here? BTW 2 - maybe you could write me all these kind Words in German? I am sure it will sound even better to my Ears.

BTW 3 - are u also so kind on FB Groups? Or this is the cool side of Forums, specially cause you probably did not read all my Comments, as the things you wrote that I meant, well, how can I say in a way that is opposite than your kind way- just not correct...

Last edited by TomLis; 14.08.2021 at 23:34.
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Old 14.08.2021, 23:16
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Speaking of noise, you have now opened several threads to complain about places closing at 10, crap internet, bad driving and ranted (understandably in that case) about the recycling "system".

Not bad for a person who moved here weeks ago and - that's the icing on the cake - has a Swiss wife.
Thanks ! This kind of Comment I appreciate much more that this groomly unpolite Person who wrote me all these nice compliments .
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Old 14.08.2021, 23:35
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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This reminds me of something published during the first lockdown...

https://soundofcolleagues.com/#
Real cool. I wonder if it is allowed to open this Website here
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Old 14.08.2021, 23:55
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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......
It is very nice that one takes a Subject and instead of speaking about it - goes personally and talks about the Person. How can I even approach it?.....
Well, there is an other thing you don't understand about Switzerland.
Rules, regulations and laws are mostly made by the populace. The government may draw them up but if not desired, a referendum can be started (and believe me, we have many of those) or an initiative can be started to create new laws, rules and regulations (many of those too).

The populace is the "Souverän" (go google it or ask your wife) and in Switzerland it really IS.
So if you personally attack about 6-7 million people on daily (or should I say hourly) basis you have to expect an attack or two aimed in your direction.
Are you gonna switch from bitching to whining now?
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Old 15.08.2021, 00:06
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Well, there is an other thing you don't understand about Switzerland.
Rules, regulations and laws are mostly made by the populace. The government may draw them up but if not desired, a referendum can be started (and believe me, we have many of those) or an initiative can be started to create new laws, rules and regulations (many of those too).

The populace is the "Souverän" (go google it or ask your wife) and in Switzerland it really IS.
So if you personally attack about 6-7 million people on daily (or should I say hourly) basis you have to expect an attack or two aimed in your direction.
Are you gonna switch from bitching to whining now?
Hemm, I see you joined the nice Words from your Collegue

Did not feel I am whining, or bitching. Hemm, I am quite puzzled, as I wrote, I am used to such discussions in Expats Groups in different Countries, but here it feels like many share the same thoughts.... Is it something special about this Country that causes it? The Mountains? I seriously ask, nothing bad or whining.

I apologise if someone felt attacked, or 7 Millions? BTW - I don´t get it, how many Swiss are in this Forum that so many People feel offended?
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Old 15.08.2021, 00:29
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Hemm, I see you joined the nice Words from your Collegue
That's my standard. I doubt you'd find me name-calling anybody in any posts.

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......I apologise if someone felt attacked, or 7 Millions? BTW - I don´t get it, how many Swiss are in this Forum that so many People feel offended?
Why do you ask? You prefer to talk behind people's backs?
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Old 15.08.2021, 10:05
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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We arrived 2155, I was just sitting there looking at them, I had the Ball with me, they were just standing and talking, 2 8.5 Boys talking about stuff Kids talk. To me looks just another normal scene of Life.

at 22:02 came a Car and a Guard (I assume from the local Securitas Company or what so ever) told me it is not allowed to be in Sport and other public places after 2200...
You inadvertantly broke a local by-law. It happens. You apologise and adapt. Nobody was injured, no fines were issued. Except...
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Cause now my Son got really scared and first thought this is the Police and now is worried about it.
Any chance that was down to dad getting angry? From your own account, it sounds like the guard was perfectly polite and courteous. And why is your son worried about the police? My experience of them is that they're usually quite helpful and tolerant. (even when dealing with a serious case of littering). We had one speak to us in English in Basel city, when some scrote put their parking ticket on our car.

Here in a cosmopolitan, tolerant community in Baselland, the local school and playing fields and parks are off limits after ten pm. I'd be surprised if this was uncommon. I don't think we've got security guards patrolling, but you never know. We do call the police if there's a disturbance, but being a tolerant lot, we don't sweat the small stuff. Last friday night was very noisy and no-one called the police until after 1am.

As for restaurants etc. - they're not public places, but even they, if they allow a disturbance, will get visited by the police, if called.

Don't kick against the goads, don't hold a grudge, don't make this into more of a big deal than it is. It'll only make you unhappy. And your kids. If you don't like the rules there are ways to get them changed.

I'm sure that anyone who's lived here for a while and moved to a community in Germany would find themselves bewildered by some local rules that seem perfectly reasonable to the locals.
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Old 15.08.2021, 10:16
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

I'm very surprised how many people actually call the police.

Not once in my life I've called the police on neighbours or noise. I either sort it myself or decide to mutter about it for a short while and move on.
I've also learnt that in certain cases putting my music up seems to pass on the message. That system bothers them more in the end as due to my loud music it takes me quiet a while to notice that they stopped their noise.
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Old 15.08.2021, 13:00
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Real cool. I wonder if it is allowed to open this Website here
Only from 8:00 to 17:00, and only in offices. Just kidding

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Is it something special about this Country
Yes: rules are very important here, big ones and small ones.
I come from a country that has way more rules than Switzerland, including noise hours and all the rest, but very little are applied. Life is a mess. Sure, you can do whatever you want, but also anything can happen to you at any time.
Rules can be annoying, but at least you know them in advance, and if not someone will just tell you. I think in the end it's more fair here (you have the right of your own opinion of course).

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I'm very surprised how many people actually call the police.
As an expat I never did, but I understand that here the locals are used to call the Police as a neutral and standardized way to resolve conflicts, and Police is supposed to be trained accordingly. So a Policeman approaching you should not be seen as a punisher but as a mediator / ambassador.
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  #76  
Old 15.08.2021, 13:43
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

Just clocked-in, after quite a while of absence from EF. Sometimes you just occasionally need that bit of knowing that there are other „people that have moved to Switzerland“, you know?

OP, have been living here since 1986. I live in more or less central Zurich.

Yes, there is the „Nachtruhe“ law. And I find it great, like many other Swiss laws that for example prevent running a bath after 22:00 if you are in a shared property.

There is no „free-for-all“.

Which is one of the reasons why it‘s great to bring-up your children here. And is one of the safest places in the World.

Yes, it also often pisses me of sometimes as well - regularly. And the people - well, that‘s another subject.

My daughters camp Scout event one year was a wash-out because of really bad weather. So they camped in my attic instead - pizzas ordered etc. Somehow at 01:00 I woke-up, and wondered WTF - all sets of about 14 shoes outside had disappeared. Wandered up to the local football field, surrounded by apartments, and found them all playing football there.

Didn‘t say a word, but my daughter got the look, and on the walk back overheard one of her Swiss friends saying „my parents would have been furious“. Everyone went back to their sleeping bags, not a word more was mentioned - and we‘re still happy!

I do find it over zealous that you were confronted at 22:01, but that is probably one of the prices you have to pay for living in Lachen.

Look at it in this way, Switzerland is great to live in and especially great to bring-up children. But there are compromises to be made, which actually don‘t hurt. It‘s really a choice.
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Old 15.08.2021, 16:35
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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As an expat I never did, but I understand that here the locals are used to call the Police as a neutral and standardized way to resolve conflicts, and Police is supposed to be trained accordingly. So a Policeman approaching you should not be seen as a punisher but as a mediator / ambassador.
I don't think the police get called even remotely as often as one might deduce from reading EF. How often do posters see them in their residential neighborhoods? Going by these threads they should be at least a weekly sight.

As for OP's Securitas arriving at 22:01, he doesn't say they told him that they got called, in fact he says it's his ignorant assumption. Obviously they'll emphasize the most problematic spots, checking them more often (including at the start and the end of each tour) is an obvious and probably the most simple measure to that end.

He himself validated this prioritisation by his own behaviour.
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Old 15.08.2021, 18:31
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

Come to think of it, is actually a totally logic thing to happen. It's school holidays, the youngsters will hang out where there is enough space and no street life to do so. 22.01h (OP has a Swiss watch obviously, congrats ) is the time for Securitas to check those kind of premises and tell such kids that time is up. The perfectly normal first round of the evening.

Last edited by curley; 15.08.2021 at 19:49.
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Old 16.08.2021, 15:40
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Re: Bad experience today at 2201,or,seriously???

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Come to think of it, is actually a totally logic thing to happen. It's school holidays, the youngsters will hang out where there is enough space and no street life to do so. 22.01h (OP has a Swiss watch obviously, congrats ) is the time for Securitas to check those kind of premises and tell such kids that time is up. The perfectly normal first round of the evening.
Yes agree. It‘s been a shit time for teenagers during the pandemic.

It got on my nerves that the local church grounds near to my apartment became the local night hotspot during lockdown for loud parties (well over the permitted limit) at the beginning.

Daughters boyfriend, who is in the Swiss Police, said I should report it. So I did.
The police arrived within minutes (van with about 8 police). And there were no recurrences.

Until about 5 months ago - I noticed that the same church (which is next to the local school) was regularly used by groups of black jacketed male youths, who were clearly selling drugs - so took photos etc. Again, reported it, the police vans arrived, the yobs dispersed - and it hasn‘t (yet) occurred again.

Really, calling the police is not something anyone takes lightly. You need to question yourself whether you‘re being over zealous, paranoid etc. beforehand.

In comparison to countries like the UK, where the crime rate appears to be shocking, I am very happy that this possibility exists in Switzerland, and is taken seriously.
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