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  #21  
Old 16.08.2021, 10:08
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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I don't understand why apartment owners in this kind of situation can't get an indoor doggy toilet and train their dog to use it and then just clean it after. https://www.google.com/search?q=dog+...-8&safe=strict
I tried a dog toilet on the balcony. 1. No matter how hard I tried my pup refused to do anything on it. 2. They only really come in sizes for small dogs, even the larger ones are not suitable for a medium to large dog.
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Old 16.08.2021, 10:16
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

MattyRedSox, I totally respect that some people aren't fans of dogs (and I'm sorry to hear you had a traumatic experience).
Chuff, I do have an indoor toilet mat for her as well, which is very handy. Practically-speaking, it isn't feasible for a dog never to toilet outside - there are going to be times when we're out on a walk and she needs to go.

I'm in agreement that dog mess is pretty gross. And this is where I'm trying to find a balance - I haven't let her go on the pavement because people walk on it (who wants to step in a puddle of wee?). I have tried to avoid letting her go in the public park, because people sit there and have their lunch. The garden isn't currently used by anyone (although of course that's not to say that a family won't move in one day and have kids running about) and it seemed the least-disagreeable (until now, obviously). I hate the thought that I'm doing anything to upset people.

Sorry schoggiweggli, just saw your query about location - I'm in Wettstein.
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  #23  
Old 16.08.2021, 10:20
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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I tried a dog toilet on the balcony. 1. No matter how hard I tried my pup refused to do anything on it. 2. They only really come in sizes for small dogs, even the larger ones are not suitable for a medium to large dog.
I got some artificial grass squares, took them on dog walks and got him weeing on them, then left them on the balcony.
Once he realised the only place he could wee in peace inbetween walks was the balcony, it all worked out well.
Had to devote a lot of time to following him around the apt and rushing him to the balcony at the first sign of danger. Any accidents were wiped up and the paper towels also left on the balcony.
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  #24  
Old 16.08.2021, 10:27
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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MattyRedSox, I totally respect that some people aren't fans of dogs (and I'm sorry to hear you had a traumatic experience).
Chuff, I do have an indoor toilet mat for her as well, which is very handy. Practically-speaking, it isn't feasible for a dog never to toilet outside - there are going to be times when we're out on a walk and she needs to go.

I'm in agreement that dog mess is pretty gross. And this is where I'm trying to find a balance - I haven't let her go on the pavement because people walk on it (who wants to step in a puddle of wee?). I have tried to avoid letting her go in the public park, because people sit there and have their lunch. The garden isn't currently used by anyone (although of course that's not to say that a family won't move in one day and have kids running about) and it seemed the least-disagreeable (until now, obviously). I hate the thought that I'm doing anything to upset people.

Sorry schoggiweggli, just saw your query about location - I'm in Wettstein.
It looks like you've gone about this the wrong way. You need to get her weeing outside on the walks. Get her to wee in the gutter or the edge of the pavement if you're worried about it.
Find a street with verges and a lot of trees and include that into your walking route, or head along the river.
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  #25  
Old 16.08.2021, 15:30
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

When we lived in a building with a shared outdoor space no one minded us letting our dog pee in the lawn. No one used the space anyway and in fact our nicest conversations with neighbors was when I was playing with our dog out back and they’d come and chat from their balcony. One thing I made sure was that she didn’t pee by the laundry drying area, which was around the front anyway.

From what you described it sounds to me more like this lady is probably afraid of dogs and has bad experiences. Your landlord’s initial wording makes it sound like he’s fine with your dog doing her business out there. I agree that you should again check with him and also reach out via him to the neighbor concerned—you’ve received excellent advice on wording etc.
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  #26  
Old 16.08.2021, 15:42
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

I like the suggestion of doropfiz, to write a nice card, and to give loads of additional context.


I would add, that I think it'd be nice to add 2 further things:
  • That you plan to work hard at learning German, and thank her for her patience whilst you do
  • That you'd like to invite her over for a tea or coffee and a slice of her favourite cake, once you have acquired a conversational level of German, as you're really enjoying the neighbourhood, and you care about your neighbours (give her your exact address and name, and ask her to let you know what her favourite cake is)
The best resolution, I think, often involve both sides feeling seen, heard and valued. The more you can make an effort beyond this bump, the easier it will be to, hopefully, move on from it without incident.
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  #27  
Old 16.08.2021, 16:02
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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I like the suggestion of doropfiz, to write a nice card, and to give loads of additional context.


I would add, that I think it'd be nice to add 2 further things:
  • That you plan to work hard at learning German, and thank her for her patience whilst you do
  • That you'd like to invite her over for a tea or coffee and a slice of her favourite cake, once you have acquired a conversational level of German, as you're really enjoying the neighbourhood, and you care about your neighbours (give her your exact address and name, and ask her to let you know what her favourite cake is)
The best resolution, I think, often involve both sides feeling seen, heard and valued. The more you can make an effort beyond this bump, the easier it will be to, hopefully, move on from it without incident.
In no way would I suggest this to the OP or anyone else.
Let the landlord clarify the situation, stop the dog using the grass as a toilet, end of story.
A polite hello etc is all that's needed after that.
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  #28  
Old 16.08.2021, 16:02
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

CliiniMuus, did you see that I'd revised my advice about the card, above? I hadn't realised that OP had a relocation agent, and once Mrs Doolittle pointed that out, I agreed with her that that'd be a good route to go. (Perhaps a card, later.)

I agree with your advice to OP to learn German. Doing so makes just about every aspect of life better, and can be liberating for just such everyday interactions.

The big slice of cake? Yummy. If I think of any grumpy neighbours I've known..
I think they'd probably have been horrified at such a suggestion of close neighbourliness and can't imagine them ever accepting. But who knows, maybe this would work for Madam X. At the very least, she might feel that there's some goodwill... or she may, in shock, beat a hasty retreat, in which case the issue would have been resolved, too.
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  #29  
Old 16.08.2021, 16:07
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

So nice to read of another thoughtful dog owner

I love animals and have had dogs my whole life, but I would not let my dog wee in a communal garden as it just isn't nice for the neighbors.
I agree with you that I won't let my dog do his business in the middle of a public park either - as people might want to picnic or simply lie down on the grass.
I simply let my dog do his thing right by a tree trunk where no one would sit, or in the bushes and once done, let him run around a bit. He would never just wee in the middle of a pavement; never had to teach him, he would only do it on the side. I can also not imagine your dog's puddle would be so big that people would have to jump over it

We're going on holiday soon. The airbnb we are renting does not allow dogs as it has a garden. We promised our dog would not use it as a toilet (we will bring his indoor toilet pads). After the host read all of our reviews how we leave places spotless and how well behaved our dog is, we got a response they gladly make an exception for us
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  #30  
Old 16.08.2021, 16:08
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

I also had a run-in with a completely bat-shit neighbor this year (vermeiter sided with me). It can feel really detrimental having such discussions in a mother-tongue that is not your own (or as a native German speaker trying to reason with a native Swiss-German speaker).

I feel for you .

The „small-minded“ Swiss (hey come-on, we all know them (I‘m Swiss, I can say this) like to have conflict discussions face-to-face. It‘s kind of a „Swiss“ thing, that has developed over many centuries, that even many Swiss today don‘t find appropriate for this decade / century / other possibilities.

I have discovered the best translator for putting together your case in writing (and it‘s free): https://www.deepl.com/translator

It‘s become my best friend. I‘d take-up the discussion with your vermeiter, in a way that you would otherwise like to. Get everything in an e-mail.
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  #31  
Old 16.08.2021, 16:11
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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CliiniMuus, did you see that I'd revised my advice about the card, above? I hadn't realised that OP had a relocation agent, and once Mrs Doolittle pointed that out, I agreed with her that that'd be a good route to go. (Perhaps a card, later.)

I agree with your advice to OP to learn German. Doing so makes just about every aspect of life better, and can be liberating for just such everyday interactions.

The big slice of cake? Yummy. If I think of any grumpy neighbours I've known..
I think they'd probably have been horrified at such a suggestion of close neighbourliness and can't imagine them ever accepting. But who knows, maybe this would work for Madam X. At the very least, she might feel that there's some goodwill... or she may, in shock, beat a hasty retreat, in which case the issue would have been resolved, too.

I am glad you let me know - no, I didn't know about your edit. Thank you.


The point of the cake is far beyond cake. It doesn't matter if the neighbour even likes cake. It's a gesture of goodwill - a show of "I'm here to give, not just to take". It also is another way to help the neighbour to accept the decision quietly and quickly, but also to have a chance to move the conversation away from that onto something else (which I think is important, if they are to hope to get along easily in future).


Otherwise, it's a big awkward, I think, if the only thing between them is this bump, alongside the linguistic limitation of our poster, who seems genuine, willing and kind-hearted, but it has to be frustrating for the neighbour that they can't easily speak to 1 another in German.
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  #32  
Old 16.08.2021, 16:17
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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I think they'd probably have been horrified at such a suggestion of close neighbourliness and can't imagine them ever accepting.
I did wonder - many of the cultural guides / intro-to-Switzerland type articles I've read have indicated that this level of friendliness would be considered far too intimate for the average Swiss person. The last thing I'd want to do at this point is make anyone even more uncomfortable!

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I have discovered the best translator for putting together your case in writing (and it‘s free): https://www.deepl.com/translator
I hadn't heard of Deepl, thanks for sharing!!

Re: the language difficulties - tonight is my first German class, so fingers crossed that I discover a previously-unknown linguistics talent and I'll be able to communicate with her soon!
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  #33  
Old 16.08.2021, 16:31
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

I was looking into it a bit more, as your neighbor is also one of those bat-shit types. Of course your dog can pee on the grass, and poo as long as you pick it up immediately (although I‘m sure you let this happen elsewhere).

Otherwise, we’d need to ban also all cats from society (their wee and poo is not regulated). Perhaps check whether your bat-shit neighbor is a cat owner.

Here useful articles on using communal grounds (it‘s in German, but just use your on- line translator):

https://ratgeber.immowelt.ch/a/hauso...was-nicht.html

https://www.mietrecht.org/mietvertra...gartennutzung/
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  #34  
Old 16.08.2021, 22:50
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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Otherwise, we’d need to ban also all cats from society (their wee and poo is not regulated). Perhaps check whether your bat-shit neighbor is a cat owner.
Contrary to cats, dogs can be trained.
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  #35  
Old 17.08.2021, 09:22
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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I hadn't heard of Deepl, thanks for sharing!!

Re: the language difficulties - tonight is my first German class,
DeepL is far more accurate than Google. I've run many of its German translations past my (native-speaker) OH, and there aren't many mistakes.

German is far easier to learn if you've had Latin. Declinations, etc. Also, unlike English, it is generally a language of rules not exceptions. When I started learning, OH slowly said a sentence, and I could write it out accurately even though I didn't know what all the words meant. viel Glueck!
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  #36  
Old 17.08.2021, 09:32
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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MattyRedSox, I totally respect that some people aren't fans of dogs (and I'm sorry to hear you had a traumatic experience).
Chuff, I do have an indoor toilet mat for her as well, which is very handy. Practically-speaking, it isn't feasible for a dog never to toilet outside - there are going to be times when we're out on a walk and she needs to go.
You "go out on walks"... in your garden? Because that is the topic of your neighbourly disagreement here, not everywhere else you are going out on walks. You specifically said in your first post that "But I also need to use the garden for when the pup needs a quick wee", which is not referring to a "walk" and it is referring to the kind of short-notice and unplanned situation that an indoor potty caters for. So at this point, your story is changing and it sounds like you are making adjustments to make your situation sound better to the people reading and judging. I guess that it is normal, but don't be surprised if people notice.

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I'm in agreement that dog mess is pretty gross. And this is where I'm trying to find a balance - I haven't let her go on the pavement because people walk on it (who wants to step in a puddle of wee?). I have tried to avoid letting her go in the public park, because people sit there and have their lunch. The garden isn't currently used by anyone (although of course that's not to say that a family won't move in one day and have kids running about) and it seemed the least-disagreeable (until now, obviously). I hate the thought that I'm doing anything to upset people.

Sorry schoggiweggli, just saw your query about location - I'm in Wettstein.
No matter which way you put it, allowing your dog to go to the toilet in your shared garden is just rude and gross, regardless of if any kids currently play there or not. If you have a public and dog-friendly park literally opposite where you live then I find it very hard to believe that there are no areas whatsoever in that entire public park where a dog could pee that will not then be sat on by people having lunch.

My conclusion after reading this thread is that your neighbour is (morally) in the right here.

Last edited by Chuff; 17.08.2021 at 09:55. Reason: Correction.
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  #37  
Old 17.08.2021, 09:52
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

Hey Jess,

Dogs are more governed in this country than most humans. There are a multitude of threads on this forum where you will find stories similar to yours. I used to care for my friends white boxer and I was stopped by the police multiple times asking for “her papers” because they thought she was a pitbull... meanwhile there are open drug deals happening in broad daylight next to the police station. It is maddening ... but also a bit nice because dogs are mostly well behaved here & their ownership is taken seriously. But you will find a lot of people in public will think it is their place to tell you how to raise your dog & it is difficult to get used to... & at the end of the day, not everyone likes dogs.

I suggest you get written proof from your landlord (email is fine) that your dog can use the garden and provide it to her next time she gives you trouble. No need to be extra kind or polite as it seems she did not pay you with that courtesy from the get go. Sometimes it is important to stand your ground. Your dog is your family and nobody should be a door mat for their family.

Best wishes!
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Old 17.08.2021, 11:00
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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So at this point, your story is changing and it sounds like you are making adjustments to make your situation sound better to the people reading and judging. I guess that it is normal, but don't be surprised if people notice.
I'm sorry you think my 'story is changing' - I can assure you I have no intent to mislead anyone. I find this forum super helpful (mostly) but I suppose full back stories / history / situational context can be difficult to condense sometimes, although I'm doing my best here.


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My conclusion after reading this thread is that your neighbour is (morally) in the right here.
Fair enough - this is what I'm here for. If I'm in the wrong, I'm more than happy to accept this as a lesson learned, file it under 'things I've learned about life in Switzerland' and adjust my behaviour accordingly

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...
Thanks very much Susie-Q the landlord has said he will pop around today for a chat, so I'm sure I'll have a better understanding of things by the end of today


On a side-note, I had my first German class last night - I'm still a long way off effectively communicating with strangers, but I'm pleased to be moving in the right direction!
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  #39  
Old 17.08.2021, 19:19
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

I hope things get sorted out for you because it's not very nice to be new and feel you have got off on the wrong foot.

When my OH was only supposed to be here for 6 months he rented a small studio in Kleinbasel. He had a folding Brompton bike for cycling to work and back and he folded it up and left it in the entrance hall one evening (he was on the ground floor) which attracted the wrath of the old lady opposite who had been in the building for over 30 years and kept an eye on everything. When I first came to visit my OH said to me don't do anything when I'm out at work that might annoy Fr X because she can be quite scary.

However, as time passed and I visited more often I got to know her a bit better. She spoke Baseldeutsch and had very limited English and I had almost no German but we managed to communicate. I found out she looked after her elderly husband who'd had a stroke (they were retired teachers with no children).
TBH I felt a little bit sorry for her as she had a bad hip and bad eyesight, but she really was formidable and quite friendly once you knew how to approach her. She collected honey with a friend of hers, so I used to bring back different types of heather honey from Scotland as a gift for them, they'd always insist on giving me chocolate in return! At Christmas I knitted them all scarves. She decorated the entrance hall at Christmas and put a lovely light above OH's door.

Once when I had to return to Scotland again for a number of weeks she insisted on doing my OH's laundry for him as he was out at work all day. When I moved here and my OH got a bigger flat for us we went next door to say goodbye to both of them and I was really upset as I felt like they'd adopted us a bit
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Old 17.08.2021, 20:31
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

Utterly disgusting. I feel for Mrs X
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