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Old 15.08.2021, 17:43
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Neighbour disagreement

Hi all, sorry it's long winded.

I'm renting an apartment with a communal, fenced-in garden. It's quite large, all grass, without any flowers or decorative components. Part of the reason i rented this particular apartment is because of the garden, so that I can play with the dog out there; I specifically asked the owner about this before signing the lease and he was fine with it (he is the owner of the entire block, so we all have the same landlord).

Three weeks ago, another neighbour (Lucy) was in the garden chatting with me while the dog was playing, and a woman (X) came out to the garden to inform us that dogs on the grass were forbidden. Not speaking any German, I was glad Lucy was there to translate for me. I indicated to Lucy that I was quite sure this isn't correct, but not wanting to make any trouble, I left. I emailed the owner, and asked him to confirm in writing that he's okay with me playing in the garden with the dog. He obliged, replying to say that as long as I use the robisacks to pick up her mess, it's fine with him.

I've just been out there today, and neighbour X has come out again to tell me it's verboten... Lucy wasn't around and unfortunately I didn't have my phone to do a google translation, so I wasn't able to communicate that the owner has said it's fine. But she was pretty cross with me - I think she feels that after the interaction 3 weeks ago, I have decided to ignore her, which I know is a very un-Swiss thing to do.

The building has two separate entrances and her apartment is accessed by the other one, so I can't even go and knock on her door to have a friendly chat (with an interpreter obviously). I am a bit anxious that I'm causing some acrimony - I want to be a good neighbour, and being the foreigner I am very keen to ensure that i'm not culturally stepping on toes. But I also need to use the garden for when the pup needs a quick wee or to get a bit of energy out of her system.

Is there something else I should be doing here?
As always, thanks for the advice.
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Old 15.08.2021, 17:51
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

Don't worry about it, you are being a good neighbour. As your landlord is ok with this, the best thing to do I think would be to ask him to have a word with Madame X, so he can explain to her that you're a lovely tenant with a lovely dog and that you're doing all the right things.

And don't get too worried about always doing the right thing. You seem to be a caring, socially aware person, so chances are you're doing the right thing. You have as much right to enjoy your life here as anybody else.

If instead you want to give her a message, you can write it out in English and pm me and I'll translate it for you.
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Old 15.08.2021, 19:01
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

As the grass is communal, donít let your dog use it as a toilet, regardless of the landlords approval, but thatís just common courtesy.

Where did you settle in Basel, roughly? I know a few doggy places, having a mutt myself.
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Old 15.08.2021, 19:25
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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Hi all, sorry it's long winded.

I'm renting an apartment with a communal, fenced-in garden. It's quite large, all grass, without any flowers or decorative components. Part of the reason i rented this particular apartment is because of the garden, so that I can play with the dog out there; I specifically asked the owner about this before signing the lease and he was fine with it (he is the owner of the entire block, so we all have the same landlord).

Three weeks ago, another neighbour (Lucy) was in the garden chatting with me while the dog was playing, and a woman (X) came out to the garden to inform us that dogs on the grass were forbidden. Not speaking any German, I was glad Lucy was there to translate for me. I indicated to Lucy that I was quite sure this isn't correct, but not wanting to make any trouble, I left. I emailed the owner, and asked him to confirm in writing that he's okay with me playing in the garden with the dog. He obliged, replying to say that as long as I use the robisacks to pick up her mess, it's fine with him.

I've just been out there today, and neighbour X has come out again to tell me it's verboten... Lucy wasn't around and unfortunately I didn't have my phone to do a google translation, so I wasn't able to communicate that the owner has said it's fine. But she was pretty cross with me - I think she feels that after the interaction 3 weeks ago, I have decided to ignore her, which I know is a very un-Swiss thing to do.

The building has two separate entrances and her apartment is accessed by the other one, so I can't even go and knock on her door to have a friendly chat (with an interpreter obviously). I am a bit anxious that I'm causing some acrimony - I want to be a good neighbour, and being the foreigner I am very keen to ensure that i'm not culturally stepping on toes. But I also need to use the garden for when the pup needs a quick wee or to get a bit of energy out of her system.

Is there something else I should be doing here?
As always, thanks for the advice.
Sorry to hear about it. It is quite amazing how there are so many Posts here on EF about these incidents with Neighbours or whatever.

I feel you.

But hey, no, it says nothing about the People here, this would be putting into Drawers and that is not nice
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Old 15.08.2021, 19:46
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

Mistake no. 1:
<< I indicated to Lucy that I was quite sure this isn't correct, but not wanting to make any trouble, I left.>>
You should have told her that you have the permission and you should not have left.
You made the neighbour believe they were right.

<<I emailed the owner, and asked him to confirm in writing that he's okay with me playing in the garden with the dog.>> well done.

Mistake no. 2:
<<I've just been out there today, and neighbour X has come out again to tell me it's verboten... Lucy wasn't around and unfortunately I didn't have my phone to do a google translation, so I wasn't able to communicate that the owner has said it's fine.>>
As you know you are not able to communicate with the neighbours you should have been prepared.
The thing to do is to copy this email of the owner and carry one with you whenever you go play in the garden. Just hand it over to her (or who ever comes up next) and carry on playing.

Enjoy.

PS: Should the email be in English, that's not your problem. Write on every copy: Erlaubnis. The rest she can google
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Old 15.08.2021, 20:02
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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He obliged, replying to say that as long as I use the robisacks to pick up her mess, it's fine with him.

I've just been out there today, and neighbour X has come out again to tell me it's verboten...

...
The building has two separate entrances and her apartment is accessed by the other one, so I can't even go and knock on her door to have a friendly chat (with an interpreter obviously).
I agree that you sound like a socially aware person who appreciates that there are cultural norms, and it is respectful of you to check whether you need to change anything. Essentially, since you've been given written permission, you don't have to change anything.

Even so, it'd be better for you and for your dog to find a way to prevent further negative interactions about the dog.

For that reason, I wouldn't recommend doing nothing. Perhaps there's a way to combine of the advice from the other posters above. It is to your advantage that madam X has a separate entrance.

You could write to your landlord and thank him for his mail of confurmation. Tell him that you want to be a good neighbour, and are therefore concerned that Madam X told you that you have broken the rules by letting your dog into the garden. Ask him whether he would please speak to her, and would forward her the enclosed card.

Choose a friendly looking card with a bright but neutral picture, such as a vase of flowers or a pretty landscape, but no dogs or gardens. Write in there, by hand, in English, and include a checked translation in German, to say something along these lines.
"It's been n months since I arrived in Switzerland, (or since I moved into the bulding). It has taken some adjustment, of course, but I'm loving it. (Name three non-dog things you like.)

I want to be a good neighbour, and so I obey the house rules. I'm sorry that I seem to have upset you, when you saw me in the garden with my dog. Perhaps you did not realise that Mr Landlordname had given me permission to let the dog use the garden. I have asked him to send this card on to you. He told me that I must always use Robidog bags, which I do. Usually, though, my dog Dogname and I go for walks, so that the Robidog bags are used while we are out.

Dogname is a puppy, and will reach adulthood in about n time from now. He is likely to be about n cm taller than now. I'm training him in discipline and we attend a dog school together. We are fortunate to have found a good vet in the area.

I hope that it helps for you to have a little more background information.

Kind neighbourly greetings"
I suggest this because, for dog-lovers, it can sometimes come as a surprise that some other people are no less than terrified of dogs, or that they find them distasteful or unhygienic, or don't want to be jumped on or kissed by the dog. Sometimes, a bit of background information can help the person to realise that this particular dog is unlikely to become wild and dangerous, because the owner is taking proper care.
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Old 15.08.2021, 20:11
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

Sounds like there's nothing to worry about, itsjess.

Letting the dog pee is probably a less than optimal idea though.
Hygiene is one aspect (the grass is communal), the other that over time the uric acid will kill any plant doggy keeps doing its thing against.
Watering the plant afterwards may lessen the detrimental effect, but there's probably limits to that.

I'd get the owner's email in German and print it out, and next time you simply hang it in front of X's nose. If it's in English she can pretend to not understand it, German leaves her no such escape route.

Is it possible for you to have the owner call X up and put her in her place?
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Old 15.08.2021, 21:28
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

Tell her to call the police.

Tom
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Old 15.08.2021, 22:02
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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Tell her to call the police.

Tom
Sell the dog, buy a cat
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Old 15.08.2021, 23:11
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

Thank you all. I'm going to do an amalgamation of your recommendations - I'll get a nice (non-dog related) card, and write something along the lines of doropfiz's recommendations (I'll get someone to check the German) to pass to her next time I see her. I can't get the landlord to pass it on as I don't actually know her name or even her apartment number but I'm sure i'll see her some time soon.

I'm cognisant that some people find dogs distasteful or frightening, which I try to manage - as soon as someone enters the yard, I hold her until they're gone, and she certainly never has the opportunity to jump on someone.

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As the grass is communal, don’t let your dog use it as a toilet, regardless of the landlords approval, but that’s just common courtesy.
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Letting the dog pee is probably a less than optimal idea though.
Genuinely curious about this - where is the preference for her to do her business? I've thought a lot about this - we are directly opposite a park (where dogs are allowed on lead, I have carefully looked for the signs ), however nearby employees sit on the grass to eat their lunch during the day. I can't imagine they'd be happy to sit down in a little wet patch. On the sidewalk? That's where people walk and children scoot their little scooters. The garden seemed like the safest option as far as upsetting people goes.

Re: the uric acid, I've read that female dog urine does tend to 'burn' the grass, so I've put a watering can on the list and will dilute it with water wherever she goes.
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Old 16.08.2021, 00:11
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

Does Lucy know the name of Madam X?
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Old 16.08.2021, 01:14
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

Communal gardens are often problematic because not everyone seems to agree on how they can be used. That sounds like the issue here. It also appears that the usage of this communal area is not written into the "houserules"

A dog playing is not the same thing as a dog doing business and clearly some tenants are not okay with the latter. The landlord needs to communicate with the other tenants and outline the rules for usage of this common area in writing. The issue could be that if no other tenants have dogs they might object. Then things could get messy.

I would suggest making this the landlord's responsibility to communicate to all tenants that what he has told the OP. Until the matter is clarified I would not contact any other tenants directly. OP has a relocation agent and I suggest you get that person to provide ongoing support here as part of their job and contact the landlord about this situation.
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Old 16.08.2021, 02:03
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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OP has a relocation agent and I suggest you get that person to provide ongoing support here as part of their job and contact the landlord about this situation.
Ah, I didn't know that there's a relocation agent involved. In that case, definitely, I agree with Mrs Doolittle - go through that agent.
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Old 16.08.2021, 08:06
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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Genuinely curious about this - where is the preference for her to do her business? I've thought a lot about this - we are directly opposite a park (where dogs are allowed on lead, I have carefully looked for the signs ), however nearby employees sit on the grass to eat their lunch during the day. I can't imagine they'd be happy to sit down in a little wet patch. On the sidewalk? That's where people walk and children scoot their little scooters. The garden seemed like the safest option as far as upsetting people goes.
Personally I'd differentiate between 'private communal' and 'public communal'.
My dog probably has a 99% hit rate for a grass verge.
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Old 16.08.2021, 08:26
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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OP has a relocation agent and I suggest you get that person to provide ongoing support here as part of their job and contact the landlord about this situation.
Of course! Thank you Mrs Doolittle - it seems obvious now but now that I'm settled in, I sort of thought the relocation agent's job was all done. But she did specifically say that she's available for the life of my assignment.

I'll contact her today
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Old 16.08.2021, 09:14
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

If you are using the communal garden as the dogs toilet, I'm not surprised the neighbours are complaining (it's one now, that could escalate). I missed that in your first post. It's a battle you won't win.
The landlord may be happy to let the dog play in it, but perhaps doesn't appreciate what you are using it for.
Get the dog used to weeing outside on the pavement (preferably in the gutter) or the closest tree.
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Old 16.08.2021, 09:23
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

I'm going to be straight up (and please don't groan me folks - read the whole post), I am one of those people who does not like dogs. I was attacked as a child, and it takes a very special dog (and even more special owner) for me to warm to a dog (see, I didn't say that I hate all dogs). If someone is pushy with their dog, or tries to force me to like their dog, it's unlikely that I'd warm to it. I need time, patience, and most of all, the ability to get away from the pup if necessary.

Still, you sound like the right sort of dog owner. It appears that you are being respectful, and following the rules. And not forcing the dog on anyone.

When dog owners control their dogs in public, and recognize that not everyone wants a dog in their business, most people feel respected. My daughter absolutely loves dogs, and as she's unlikely to ever have one while living with me; I like to let her approach dog owners in a friendly manner and ask if she can pet/play/talk about the dog with them. This usually works fine for both her and the dog owner, and it's certainly better than her approaching an unknown dog on her own. Not every dog is good with strangers/children - respect works both ways.

All of this said, there are often grouches (both dog lovers and those who avoid dogs), and you appear to have found one. Good luck, I hope that it works out, and don't mind me if I give you and your pup some space - at least until I know your dog (and you) better.
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Old 16.08.2021, 09:25
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

Oh, but do make sure that the dog relieves itself somewhere where people are not going to encounter the mess, please! Yuck.
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Old 16.08.2021, 09:48
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

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As the grass is communal, don’t let your dog use it as a toilet, regardless of the landlords approval, but that’s just common courtesy.

Where did you settle in Basel, roughly? I know a few doggy places, having a mutt myself.
I have to agree with this and would never let my dog pee on a communal lawn shared by others in my building, especially where kids may play. It's gross.

The OP asked the landlord if the dog "could play in the communal area" not "go to the toilet in the communal area".

I don't understand why apartment owners in this kind of situation can't get an indoor doggy toilet and train their dog to use it and then just clean it after. https://www.google.com/search?q=dog+...-8&safe=strict
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Old 16.08.2021, 10:05
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Re: Neighbour disagreement

Just ignore her. If you have a written OK from the landlord there isn't much she can do against it as long as you make sure you clean up anything your dog leaves behind.
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