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  #41  
Old 06.09.2021, 10:15
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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My German is so so, I worked 50-50 EN-DE, but was real hard as many Times I missed points, for that reason i used to speak English there. Still there are many Friends of mine, especially Asian, who stuck to poor German. Not my position to judge if good or bad just saying they are managing perfectly fine there.
Fair enough, I guess each place has it's own approach. Over here, bad German would generally be more appreciated than good English, simply because it shows that a person is making an effort.
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  #42  
Old 06.09.2021, 10:15
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

Actually, you can also live in CH or elsewhere and never learn the language and still have fun and dont give a damn

What's there to talk about anyhow? who cares... for ppl that have children hmm things may be a bit different but then by the time you really learn the language they'll be grown up. So, chill out ..life is too short anyhow
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  #43  
Old 06.09.2021, 10:17
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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In Belgium it reall hard for foreigners with the Language. In Holland, oh boy, but guess what? In both Countries you can get along with English and people are happy to speak.
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And the ice gets thinner.
In my initial comment I said it wasn’t your accent that triggered the other guy’s outburst (“Du, was hast mit Englisch was? Schweizer Deutsche ist nicht gut genug für euch Leute?”) and meant to imply it was probably your attitude. On second thoughts, it could well be both - you have since revealed your disdain for other regional language variants as well.
Your above transliteration of the other dad’s provocation either shows your poor comprehension of (written) High-German or suggests it was uttered in “Balkantütsch” – i.e. not by a native Swiss speaker.
I’ll go another step further in this discussion of the apparent advantages of “Multi-Kulti” as you seem to think it's a great thing. Unless you habitually wear a burnoose to football matches, it seems a bit strange that you were also accused of Arabic descent (“Was sprights du, Arabische?” So I said, “Ja, Arabische kann ich auch” so he went to the other Father “Siehst du, Araber”…) as well. Perhaps your spoken English has a few, let’s say, Mid-Eastern overtones? Perhaps your adversary is plagued by bad memories (PTSD?) of Muslim resistance to ethnic cleansing in ex-Yugoslavia? Lots of possibilities, don’t you think?
Go swimming with your kid – less aggression than soccer
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  #44  
Old 06.09.2021, 10:29
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

You sound rather negative on the whole experience.

Have you forgotten the cardinal rule (which should apply anywhere in the world...).........you are in THEIR country and thus this talk of swiss german is bad, people should do things where I come from etc will naturally grate on people.

I moved here relatively recently and its really tough with the language, cultural nuances etc. But I accept this as it's their country.........and I would hope eventually will become my country. But I have to change my ways not Switzerland's...

If you want cases where that didn't happen, go to Birmingham etc....
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  #45  
Old 06.09.2021, 10:30
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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I guess I meant the accent
"belgium dutch" or actually flemish is not an accent but an official language, just like "dutch dutch".
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  #46  
Old 06.09.2021, 10:49
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Unless you habitually wear a burnoose to football matches, it seems a bit strange that you were also accused of Arabic descent (“Was sprights du, Arabische?” So I said, “Ja, Arabische kann ich auch” so he went to the other Father “Siehst du, Araber”…) as well. Perhaps your spoken English has a few, let’s say, Mid-Eastern overtones? Perhaps your adversary is plagued by bad memories (PTSD?) of Muslim resistance to ethnic cleansing in ex-Yugoslavia? Lots of possibilities, don’t you think?
This guy's prejudice is not Tom's problem! Anti-Arab prejudice (judged by his looks, accent?!), anti-Muslim prejudice is not ok and reflects very badly on the other father. Since we're at it, though there were war criminals on all sides, Bosniaks and Kosovars, who together made up a majority of Muslim population of ex-Yu, suffered a lot and are not thought of as main perpetrators of the wars in ex-Yugoslavia, but rather as victims.

Tom should adapt, but trying to excuse racist and ignorant prejudices on the part of the other father is not necessary in order to bring our collective point across: we are in Switzerland, not in Germany, and not in any other country.
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  #47  
Old 06.09.2021, 10:50
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Again, many Swiss, especially the older ones, feel very uncomfortable speaking High German simply because they don't do it well. They compensate for this by requiring others to understand their Swiss German.
Feel uncomfortable or simply lack the skill?

Anyway, the perfect way to troll them is to switch to another Nationalsprache (Italian or French). Then, enjoy how the people asking you to be more "Swiss" don't understand the Swiss languages.
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  #48  
Old 06.09.2021, 11:00
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Anyway, the perfect way to troll them is to switch to another Nationalsprache (Italian or French). Then, enjoy how the people asking you to be more "Swiss" don't understand the Swiss languages.
I saw this once in Lugano, it was super fun to hear!
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  #49  
Old 06.09.2021, 11:16
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Perhaps your adversary is plagued by bad memories (PTSD?) of Muslim resistance to ethnic cleansing in ex-Yugoslavia?
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This guy's prejudice is not Tom's problem! Anti-Arab prejudice (judged by his looks, accent?!), anti-Muslim prejudice is not ok and reflects very badly on the other father. Since we're at it, though there were war criminals on all sides, Bosniaks and Kosovars, who together made up a majority of Muslim population of ex-Yu, suffered a lot and are not thought of as main perpetrators of the wars in ex-Yugoslavia, but rather as victims.

Tom should adapt, but trying to excuse racist and ignorant prejudices on the part of the other father is not necessary in order to bring our collective point across: we are in Switzerland, not in Germany, and not in any other country.
I’d say the OP is not fully innocent of prejudice himself – which is why I stressed various aspects of language/dialect/accent.
Regarding ex-Yugoslavia, please read my constructed example again: falling foul of resistance to ethnic cleansing there implies you were a baddie, got it in the neck and thus resent a certain denomination all the more.
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  #50  
Old 06.09.2021, 11:20
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Fair enough, I guess each place has it's own approach. Over here, bad German would generally be more appreciated than good English, simply because it shows that a person is making an effort.
Nah. I speak my bad German or French at them long enough and eventually they surrender and speak English.

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You sound rather negative on the whole experience.

Have you forgotten the cardinal rule (which should apply anywhere in the world...).........you are in THEIR country
I was asked to come over and work here because there were insufficient Swiss available with my skills. I should be treated like an honoured guest. And by and large, I am. I expected it, after all, I am from Yorkshire.

And the Swiss joke about their dialects themselves. At least the ones I know do.
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  #51  
Old 06.09.2021, 11:22
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Maybe go back from where you came from
Ah, the cry of the racist echoing over the centuries.
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  #52  
Old 06.09.2021, 11:25
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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I was asked to come over and work here because there were insufficient Swiss available with my skills. I should be treated like an honoured guest. And by and large, I am. I expected it, after all, I am from Yorkshire.
I think this is extremely good point.

Lots of people assume if one moves somewhere they do it for a better life, its not always the case. High Skilled migration programs all over Europe are created to attract skilled people to close gaps in local labour force.

Countries like the Netherlands even have relaxed taxation put in place for such people (30% of income is not taxable for 10 years if you're hired abroad or a returning Dutch having spent outside for 10 years)
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  #53  
Old 06.09.2021, 11:32
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Feel uncomfortable or simply lack the skill?

Anyway, the perfect way to troll them is to switch to another Nationalsprache (Italian or French). Then, enjoy how the people asking you to be more "Swiss" don't understand the Swiss languages.
Well if they are swiss german they will most likely have to skill, it just might sound odd.
If a swiss is not used to use standart german regularly it feels definitely uncomfortable to speak. Especially with Germans.
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  #54  
Old 06.09.2021, 11:57
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Lots of people assume if one moves somewhere they do it for a better life, its not always the case. High Skilled migration programs all over Europe are created to attract skilled people to close gaps in local labour force.
As you don’t seem really happy about your move, is it safe to assume you are here just to fulfil an unnamed European “High Skilled migration program” quota w/o any material gain? A true prince of selflessness!
Some countries manage to have “booming” economies which outstrip population/workforce. Other countries manage to educate specialized workforce but have no practical use for it. Neither are good long-term scenarios
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  #55  
Old 06.09.2021, 12:00
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

Tom, for the many years I’ve lived in a small Ausserschwyzer Dorfli, Geraniumpolizei-ness aside, tolerance of language differences has been more or less the norm around the village. Sure one is expected to understand Dialekt, as many do not wish to speak standard German - after all it is not the local mother tongue. But it is quite common, and acceptable, to have those conversations where one party speaks Dialekt, the other standard German. A smile was more important than anything else.

—-

Recently though, around my village there seems to be something of an effort by a small but vocal group to resist what I assume they see as language encroachment - be it English, High German, or anything thing else. This more confrontational behavior is new.

Several in my circle have had at least one incident where when overheard speaking privately amongst themselves someone will come over to berate the group for not speaking Dialekt.

It’s young men in their late teens or early 20s who do this, not older folks.

—-

The best response is de-escalation; Where possible don’t engage. If you have to engage simply say ‘Thanks’ - but bonus points if you can do it in Dialekt - and return to your private conversation. Ignore the intruder from then on.

Don’t add fuel to the fire, but also I would not grovel as a poster upthread suggests. Maintain polite but detached dignity. If an eavesdropper takes offense to language choices in a private conversation that in no way involves him, that’s his issue, not yours.

—-

As you get to know the village, just smile politely, Grüezi appropriately, and you’ll be fine.

Last edited by meloncollie; 06.09.2021 at 12:10.
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  #56  
Old 06.09.2021, 12:24
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

So one foreigner insults an other foreigner and the latter reacts with "I can't believe this an happening in Switzerland".

That's actually oil in SVP's fire, no?

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I think this is extremely good point.

Lots of people assume if one moves somewhere they do it for a better life, its not always the case. High Skilled migration programs all over Europe are created to attract skilled people to close gaps in local labour force.

Countries like the Netherlands even have relaxed taxation put in place for such people (30% of income is not taxable for 10 years if you're hired abroad or a returning Dutch having spent outside for 10 years)
I wouldn't know about this but I remember the Netherlands always generally had this graded tax-system. A certain amount would cost a certain %age taxes, the next amount an other %age .... and so on.
Unlike Switzerland where the entire amount ist charged a higher %age, every bit was charged differently.
I kind of liked the Dutch system; If you make more than the other, you pay more taxes but only on the bit you make more.
Even though the %age seemed horrendous to me They did get more for their taxes (health-insurance, more generous social security etc.) at least back then.

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As you don’t seem really happy about your move, is it safe to assume you are here just to fulfil an unnamed European “High Skilled migration program” quota w/o any material gain? A true prince of selflessness!
Some countries manage to have “booming” economies which outstrip population/workforce. Other countries manage to educate specialized workforce but have no practical use for it. Neither are good long-term scenarios
Tbf, I think OP mentioned being married to a Swiss. Maybe that's why he now has to put up with living here.
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  #57  
Old 06.09.2021, 12:39
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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I wouldn't know about this but I remember the Netherlands always generally had this graded tax-system. A certain amount would cost a certain %age taxes, the next amount an other %age .... and so on.
Unlike Switzerland where the entire amount ist charged a higher %age, every bit was charged differently.
I kind of liked the Dutch system; If you make more than the other, you pay more taxes but only on the bit you make more.
Even though the %age seemed horrendous to me They did get more for their taxes (health-insurance, more generous social security etc.) at least back then.
I dont think it is what I meant.

NL as say UK has progressive tax rate system. The highest bracket is quite low and the % is extremely high. But there is a special exception that was created to attract foreign professionals (and Dutch who emigrated abroad but want to return) so they were willing to come and work in the NL.
In simple terms it says: 30% of your income is not taxable. So if you earn 200k and hit highest tax bracket of say 52%, 60k are tax free, 140k taxed at respective tax bracket.
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  #58  
Old 06.09.2021, 12:40
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Tbf, I think OP mentioned being married to a Swiss. Maybe that's why he now has to put up with living here.
Well, we all make mistakes

Just for the record, what you quoted above was addressed to otec, not the OP who admittedly also seems slightly miffed by various interactions with ignorant natives.
Trouble is, when you lack lingual skills (native or other) it can be a mistake to assume experienced hostility must be attributed to said natives alone.
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  #59  
Old 06.09.2021, 12:43
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Well, we all make mistakes

Just for the record, what you quoted above was addressed to otec, not the OP who admittedly also seems slightly miffed by various interactions with ignorant natives.
Trouble is, when you lack lingual skills (native or other) it can be a mistake to assume experienced hostility must be attributed to said natives alone.
Which bit? You not remembering OP being married to a Swiss or OP marrying a Swiss?

Only the Dutch tax bit was addressed to otec.
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Old 06.09.2021, 13:15
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Well, we all make mistakes
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Which bit? You not remembering OP being married to a Swiss or OP marrying a Swiss?

Only the Dutch tax bit was addressed to otec.
Okay, guess you're pulling my chain a leetle bit

Mistake OP made was marrying a Swiss. Mistake otec made was idealizing his immigration to CH as a selfless act, fulfilling a “High Skilled migration program” quota... mistake nearly everybody on here seems to make: never entertaining the idea I've merely implied and you put into words

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So one foreigner insults an other foreigner and the latter reacts with "I can't believe this an happening in Switzerland".

That's actually oil in SVP's fire, no?
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