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  #61  
Old 06.09.2021, 13:48
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Okay, guess you're pulling my chain a leetle bit

Mistake OP made was marrying a Swiss. Mistake otec made was idealizing his immigration to CH as a selfless act, fulfilling a “High Skilled migration program” quota... mistake nearly everybody on here seems to make: never entertaining the idea I've merely implied and you put into words
I didn't do any mistakes. I moved to Lugano not because I was invited here. It was a conscious choice and I like it here. I have nothing bad to say about Swiss Italians, and Lugano is far from being boring as Zurich. It's not perfect, I would prefer it to be more like Como, but you can't have everything in this life.
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  #62  
Old 06.09.2021, 14:08
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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I didn't do any mistakes. I moved to Lugano not because I was invited here. It was a conscious choice and I like it here. I have nothing bad to say about Swiss Italians, and Lugano is far from being boring as Zurich. It's not perfect, I would prefer it to be more like Como, but you can't have everything in this life.
Fair enough - looks like I misunderstood your previous comment as signalling an altruistic bent

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I think this is extremely good point.

Lots of people assume if one moves somewhere they do it for a better life, its not always the case. High Skilled migration programs all over Europe are created to attract skilled people to close gaps in local labour force.
BTW - know you don't appreciate nagging, but the folk around Lugano might prefer being generally refered to as Ticinesi instead of Swiss Italians
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  #63  
Old 06.09.2021, 14:15
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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BTW - know you don't appreciate nagging, but the folk around Lugano might prefer being generally refered to as Ticinesi instead of Swiss Italians
Ha! Good to know
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  #64  
Old 06.09.2021, 21:44
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Fair enough - looks like I misunderstood your previous comment as signalling an altruistic bent

BTW - know you don't appreciate nagging, but the folk around Lugano might prefer being generally refered to as Ticinesi instead of Swiss Italians
In English, the correct term is Italian Swiss, the WRONG term is Swiss Italian.

Just saying.

And in localspeak, its "Tisines".

But, hey, I've only lived here most of my life.

Tom
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  #65  
Old 06.09.2021, 22:01
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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In English, the correct term is Italian Swiss, the WRONG term is Swiss Italian.

Just saying.

And in localspeak, its "Tisines".

But, hey, I've only lived here most of my life.

Tom
They are all inferior Italians in my eyes anyway. Altho i probably need more time to assimilate

Last edited by otec; 06.09.2021 at 22:17.
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  #66  
Old 06.09.2021, 23:05
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Tom, for the many years I’ve lived in a small Ausserschwyzer Dorfli, Geraniumpolizei-ness aside, tolerance of language differences has been more or less the norm around the village. Sure one is expected to understand Dialekt, as many do not wish to speak standard German - after all it is not the local mother tongue. But it is quite common, and acceptable, to have those conversations where one party speaks Dialekt, the other standard German. A smile was more important than anything else.

—-

Recently though, around my village there seems to be something of an effort by a small but vocal group to resist what I assume they see as language encroachment - be it English, High German, or anything thing else. This more confrontational behavior is new.

Several in my circle have had at least one incident where when overheard speaking privately amongst themselves someone will come over to berate the group for not speaking Dialekt.

It’s young men in their late teens or early 20s who do this, not older folks.

—-

The best response is de-escalation; Where possible don’t engage. If you have to engage simply say ‘Thanks’ - but bonus points if you can do it in Dialekt - and return to your private conversation. Ignore the intruder from then on.

Don’t add fuel to the fire, but also I would not grovel as a poster upthread suggests. Maintain polite but detached dignity. If an eavesdropper takes offense to language choices in a private conversation that in no way involves him, that’s his issue, not yours.

—-

As you get to know the village, just smile politely, Grüezi appropriately, and you’ll be fine.
And what advice, if I may ask, you have about the Kids? So many Kids spoke poorly German back in Dusseldorf, cause they were foreigners, we always took care that our Kids (and our Friends) will be nice and kind to them.

Here, in advanced Switzerland, my Kids who speak perfect High German, they get laughed at their German, by SWISS Kids, nit foreigners. How is that possible and where are the Parents of those Kids? I will be so ashamed if My Kids were laughing at others...
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  #67  
Old 06.09.2021, 23:08
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Again, many Swiss, especially the older ones, feel very uncomfortable speaking High German simply because they don't do it well. They compensate for this by requiring others to understand their Swiss German.

If you speak high German, you will understand most Swiss German words in a short time. If you intend to live here, you'll need to adapt by speaking English or high German AND being able to understand Swiss German. Or move to Zürich, Zug or Geneva, where English is far more prominent.

It's really that simple.
Seems like here in the EF it is always so simple. Like it or suck it. No middle point. Always need to "understand" the others, so welcoming attitude.
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  #68  
Old 06.09.2021, 23:17
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Here, in advanced Switzerland, my Kids who speak perfect High German, they get laughed at their German, by SWISS Kids, nit foreigners. How is that possible and where are the Parents of those Kids? I will be so ashamed if My Kids were laughing at others...
mmmm, because there are idiots everywhere. Profit from the opportunity to teach the kids how an idiot behaves.

If you were expecting CH to be idiot free, that's not the case. We're humans and only humans. Nothing less, nothing more.
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  #69  
Old 06.09.2021, 23:20
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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mmmm, because there are idiots everywhere. Profit from the opportunity to teach the kids how an idiot behaves.
Ye well, even "ignorant me" as some people here called me, knows I can not tell my Kids the other Kids are just stupid cause then it will open another War - I already see how it backfires and then people find out and tell me I called their Kids "idiots".

Never thought I will face this problem here, around supposed to be "good population" around.
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  #70  
Old 06.09.2021, 23:31
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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It sounds much nicer than German-German.

Tom
I respectfully disagree.

But neither sound good to me, to be honest.

Even my cat thinks she's being yelled at if I say something to her in German.
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  #71  
Old 06.09.2021, 23:41
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Ye well, even "ignorant me" as some people here called me, knows I can not tell my Kids the other Kids are just stupid cause then it will open another War - I already see how it backfires and then people find out and tell me I called their Kids "idiots".

Never thought I will face this problem here, around supposed to be "good population" around.
Don't worry, after 3 beers with work colleagues or friends I always listen to stories about how neighbor or neighbor's kid is an idiot. It's just a relief valve. Better to speak, let it out, and carry on with own life. In some way it's exactly what we're already doing here...save for the beers. You're welcome to the complaitns corner https://www.englishforum.ch/complaints-corner/

What you mean with good population? Those words together carry a bit of classist or even racist overtones. Hope it only was a keyboard accident.
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  #72  
Old 07.09.2021, 00:26
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Your above transliteration of the other dad’s provocation either shows your poor comprehension of (written) High-German or suggests it was uttered in “Balkantütsch” – i.e. not by a native Swiss speaker.
The latter, the other's Albanian (a majority muslim country), at least that's how I take the first post. According to his profile Tom's Israeli, mother tongue Hebrew.

Seems like a challenging constellation, for the sake of his son it would probably be helpful to be on friendly terms with that other father.
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  #73  
Old 07.09.2021, 07:54
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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And what advice, if I may ask, you have about the Kids? So many Kids spoke poorly German back in Dusseldorf, cause they were foreigners, we always took care that our Kids (and our Friends) will be nice and kind to them.

Here, in advanced Switzerland, my Kids who speak perfect High German, they get laughed at their German, by SWISS Kids, nit foreigners. How is that possible and where are the Parents of those Kids? I will be so ashamed if My Kids were laughing at others...
Your kids will speak Swiss German by the time you open another such thread here. They probably do already.
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Old 07.09.2021, 08:08
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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but the folk around Lugano might prefer being generally refered to as Ticinesi instead of Swiss Italians
Very small mid leg joints.
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  #75  
Old 07.09.2021, 08:32
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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In English, the correct term is Italian Swiss, the WRONG term is Swiss Italian.

Just saying.

And in localspeak, its "Tisines".

But, hey, I've only lived here most of my life.

Tom
LOL, thanks for that. The Swiss Italian (otec came up with) really grated on me. I mean what the heck is a Swiss Italian? An Italian with dual citizenship?
I let it go in order not to come across as being fastidious (as if I cared, LOL, so it was laziness instead) but noticed that even in German nobody calls the Ticinesi Italian. They are always called "Tessiner". While the French are called "Welschschweizer". And all of a sudden a thing I never thought about became interesting ....
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Old 07.09.2021, 09:04
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

I would also add that the tolerance of hearing english spoken in public is wearing thin in different areas of Switzerland in my experience. Understandably, many are becoming fed up at what is viewed as a lack of integration

As for bigots etc., this is not exclusive to Western countries - ignorance exists everywhere unfortunately, best solution IMHO is to lead by example. Majority of Suisse are not like this in my experience
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  #77  
Old 08.09.2021, 15:13
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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In English, the correct term is Italian Swiss, the WRONG term is Swiss Italian.
Just saying.
And in localspeak, its "Tisines".
But, hey, I've only lived here most of my life.
Tom
It’s evident that you don’t like amateurs intruding upon your turf, Tom, but both “Italian Swiss” and “Swiss Italian” would include the nominally Italian speaking parts of the Grisons which apart from the adjacent Moesano have nothing at all to do with the “Ticines”.

An English language example: “Tertiary sector workers make up 76.5% of the Ticinese workforce, compared to the Swiss average of 67.1%.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticino

Italian: il ticinese, la ticinese, gli ticinesi

So while I take your displeasure at my comment with a pinch of salt, the argument is pretty futile anyway. otec remains strong in his conviction that dumb, obnoxious and inconsistent is the way to go


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I didn't do any mistakes. I moved to Lugano not because I was invited here. It was a conscious choice and I like it here. I have nothing bad to say about Swiss Italians, and Lugano is far from being boring as Zurich. It's not perfect, I would prefer it to be more like Como, but you can't have everything in this life.
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They are all inferior Italians in my eyes anyway. Altho i probably need more time to assimilate
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  #78  
Old 08.09.2021, 15:39
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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And what advice, if I may ask, you have about the Kids? So many Kids spoke poorly German back in Dusseldorf, cause they were foreigners, we always took care that our Kids (and our Friends) will be nice and kind to them.

Here, in advanced Switzerland, my Kids who speak perfect High German, they get laughed at their German, by SWISS Kids, nit foreigners. How is that possible and where are the Parents of those Kids? I will be so ashamed if My Kids were laughing at others...

Hate to break it to you, but your kids laugh at others sometimes, too, as do you. Perplexing that you think you have perfect kids, when noone else does.



Do you imagine you're a good parent all the time? Do you imagine you're a good neighbour all the time?



Be glad that so many people indulge you still. Be understanding that noone should have to indulge you to this extent. Start approaching people in German, and commit to learning the language finally, so you can share a bit of the linguistic load.

Last edited by CliiniMuus; 08.09.2021 at 16:52.
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Old 08.09.2021, 16:09
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Hate to break it to you, but your kids laugh at others sometimes, too, as do you. Perplexing that you think you have perfect kids, when noone else does.

Do you imagine you're a good parent all the time? Do you imagine you're a good neighbour all the time?

Be glad that so many people indulge you still. Be understanding that noone should have to indulge you to this extent. Start approaching people in German, and commit to learning the language finally, so you can share abit of the linguistic load.
Your best comment so far! Mainly because I agree with you

OP can't seem to imagine that his kids might not be sugar, spice and all things nice either. Children don't always need a reason to be nasty - human nature...
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