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Old 05.09.2021, 09:14
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Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

So to make things shirt, I got a very not Nice Comment from another Father from the Kids Football Club, actually the Foreigners here say it is a racist one. I wonder what is your take about that one.

Kids Football is very different here, but that’s Story for another Time. Part of this Delta - in Germany I was also new as a Parent in the Club and I was greeted, given all Info and was escorted in this cool World of Football Verein. Later I gave same welcoming to the new Parents as well.

I got it, I do not expect this here, but nor rudeness. As difference from Germany, most Parents do not join the Training and the ones who do, do not usually communicate with others. There was one Father, Albanian, who approached me and we had a nice Talk once and another Mother which we exchanged a few Words in English.

I get no Info whatsoever from the Verein nor from the other Parents, so this Week, as we were supposed to have the 1st League Game on a Saturday, I felt Superman and as it was a “special” Day where there were about 5 Parents there, I approached them and asked this nice Mom some basic stuff which I am used Parents speak about all Time. 1st I greeted her asked how her Son is doing in the Team and so on, then I asked where do we Play Saturday, what Level is the other Team, what League are ew playing and so on, so basically all the stuff we were discussing with dun all Parents back in Germany.

So while I am chatting with her in English, this Father, who was sitting 2 Meter away, turns to me and start in a very aggressive and loud Tone (which is very not common to him, I already heard him speaking German):

“Du, was hast mit Englisch was? Schweizer Deutsche ist nicht gut genug für euch Leute?” Then he was speaking softly with another Father beside him which I understand they are Friends and continued, while I was totally shocked “Was sprights du, Arabische?” So I said, “Ja, Arabische kann ich auch” so he went to the other Father “Siehst du, Araber”…

Then he continued saying stuff to the other Father which I did not bother to listen.

I have been living in Germany for 5 Years, I have built and I am the Head of a Cultural Community, I have had good Contacts with the Police there due to me being involved in Anti Racism Groups and I am just totally overwhelmed that such a Comment happened in Switzerland, even worse at a Kids Football Verein, where we are all supposed to be one Team, and even worse - the Mother I was speaking to or the other other Parents there - which I know they are so called “good Families” with good Jobs, SAID NOTHING and were just smiling.

My (Swiss) Wife was also shocked from this. Needless to mention what I felt doing at this Moment to that Guy but I knew how it will end to him and for me. Question is - what the hell? HOW is it possible that People act like that ? How is it possible that the other Parents did not react? This is the quality of Life for them? Terrible. Yesterday we had the 1st Game, I saw this Father when I passed by and he was doing this “Head Smile” like, oh, it is you….

VERY disappointing. I know what I can do in Germany with this Comment. No, I am not Arab, I do have obviously Arab Friends as I am an Israeli, wonder what would have happened if I told him I was Jewish… Thing is - he obviously does not like Arabs.. or Foreigners, or English. Wow - so if you combine these 3 looks like he does not like a vast majority of the World. Cool for him, but how does this fit in the Land of politeness and kindness? Amazingly enough, People here are so polite and “Gruezi” and “Hoy Zamen” to anybody on the street… But these Comments are OK apparently.
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Old 05.09.2021, 10:39
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

1. There are jerks all over the world. You've just met one.

2. He's probably never met an Arab or Israeli before so he was quite proud he could deduce your origin.

3. The guy probably can't speak Hoch Deutsch properly, which is why he expects all foreigners here to learn Swiss German. Nowadays, however, most half-way intelligent Swiss understand that foreigners learn high German and speak it. It's no big deal... except to this jerk. (see no. 1)

4. As for being racist, I don't think it really was. Obnoxious, yes! Arrogant, absolutely! But racist? I'm not convinced.

The Swiss enjoy knowing something about the people around them... where they come from, who they are related to, etc.. It basically boils down to Kevin Bacon's seven degrees theory, which uses links to establish an unspoken test of acceptance. The Swiss in my area call it "öpper hei tue" (finding common aquaintances, relatives, etc.)

from Wikipedia:
https://www.google.com/search?client...of+separation:

It rests on the assumption that anyone involved in the Hollywood film industry can be linked through their film roles to Bacon within six steps. The game's name is a reference to "six degrees of separation", a concept which posits that any two people on Earth are six or fewer acquaintance links apart.

5. Now in this game of "six degrees", you've passed the second step of being established who you are. The first was having ason who could play football. Once they find out your wife is Swiss, you will have passed the third step. (and so on)

6. You may find this loud brute irritating but quite harmless with time. His loud remarks were embarrassing to many Swiss around him but it also offered some insight into who you are.

7. In the end, and as always, just be authentic and find good people to hang out with. Don't overthink this or you'll see racism everywhere.

By the way, most of those kids on the field have parents who aren't orginally Swiss. They're from Kosovo, Croatia, Portugal, Serbia, etc etc etc
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Old 05.09.2021, 11:43
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

In another thread you asked for advice regarding kids football and I sent you a private message. For privacy I will not share the details but I thought I will add:

-As I explained, in my experience most parents do not come to watch the training.The idea is to let the coaches do their job, not helicopter-style parenting.

- Just as there will be people/parents who will be happy to speak English with you, there will also be others who will expect you to make an effort to speak the local language.

- It might just be a cultural difference but I thought you came across as a tad arrogant. That was my first impression, and after I took the time to write you a long private message with advice and you didn't even reply it seemed even more so.
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Old 05.09.2021, 11:51
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

Yawn.
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Old 05.09.2021, 11:56
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

Quick point. Nouns in English do not routinely have capital letters. It does make your posts hard to read.

The comment was racist. "You people" is generally part of a racist comment.

A Greek friend of mine, living in France just across the border from Basel, had a similar comment made by a French border guard. My friend rounded on him and said in perfect German - I may not speak French, but I do speak English, French, Greek and Arabic. How many do you speak?
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Old 05.09.2021, 12:02
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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In another thread you asked for advice regarding kids football and I sent you a private message. For privacy I will not share the details but I thought I will add:

-As I explained, in my experience most parents do not come to watch the training.The idea is to let the coaches do their job, not helicopter-style parenting.

- Just as there will be people/parents who will be happy to speak English with you, there will also be others who will expect you to make an effort to speak the local language.

- It might just be a cultural difference but I thought you came across as a tad arrogant. That was my first impression, and after I took the time to write you a long private message with advice and you didn't even reply it seemed even more so.
1. There were 5 other parents there, so it seems that some people do show up. There's a difference between showing up to watch and helicopter parenting. It's called "showing an interest".

2. There is a massive difference between expecting people to make an effort to speak the local language and making racists utterances. If you bother to read what was written, the OP wasn't talking to the man - the man overheard him talking to another parent in English and got angry that someone was speaking some heathen gabble. He further picked on the OP's ethnicity.

@OP. The guys a git. Focus on those who aren't. Gits are everywhere. They're outnumbered by decent people, but you notice them more!
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Old 05.09.2021, 12:21
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

As Gandhi once famously said, "You can't fix stupid".
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Old 05.09.2021, 12:29
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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1. There were 5 other parents there, so it seems that some people do show up. There's a difference between showing up to watch and helicopter parenting. It's called "showing an interest".

2. There is a massive difference between expecting people to make an effort to speak the local language and making racists utterances. If you bother to read what was written, the OP wasn't talking to the man - the man overheard him talking to another parent in English and got angry that someone was speaking some heathen gabble. He further picked on the OP's ethnicity.

@OP. The guys a git. Focus on those who aren't. Gits are everywhere. They're outnumbered by decent people, but you notice them more!

1. The 5 parents were there on the match day, not the training. Read the post.

2. Again, some people expect others to learn the local language, perhaps more so if said person is complaining that they're not getting enough information from the club. It's not really unique to Switzerland. And it seems they noticed his ethnicity and commented on it but I wouldn't call it 'picking on' his ethnicity.
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Old 05.09.2021, 16:45
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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In another thread you asked for advice regarding kids football and I sent you a private message. For privacy I will not share the details but I thought I will add:

-As I explained, in my experience most parents do not come to watch the training.The idea is to let the coaches do their job, not helicopter-style parenting.

- Just as there will be people/parents who will be happy to speak English with you, there will also be others who will expect you to make an effort to speak the local language.

- It might just be a cultural difference but I thought you came across as a tad arrogant. That was my first impression, and after I took the time to write you a long private message with advice and you didn't even reply it seemed even more so.
Hi, sorry, sorry looks like I missed Private MSG, I tend to answer private ones

I just saw it now, will answer you today, just about your comment:

I do not think it has to do with Helicopter, it is the atmosphere and nature of what is a "Verein" - I am just used to that a Football Verein the Parents are very involved, helping the Trainers, volunteering in the Verein, ect.

And I do not see the relation to my story here.

And also, I would speak to who ever I want, never never heard in 5 Years in Germany plus 3 Years in Spain, someone hearing me speaking English to someone else, and instead of shutting up - talking to me like that.

BTW - am i also allowed to talk like that to the Swiss or this is just their right?
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Old 05.09.2021, 16:59
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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1. There were 5 other parents there, so it seems that some people do show up. There's a difference between showing up to watch and helicopter parenting. It's called "showing an interest".

2. There is a massive difference between expecting people to make an effort to speak the local language and making racists utterances. If you bother to read what was written, the OP wasn't talking to the man - the man overheard him talking to another parent in English and got angry that someone was speaking some heathen gabble. He further picked on the OP's ethnicity.

@OP. The guys a git. Focus on those who aren't. Gits are everywhere. They're outnumbered by decent people, but you notice them more!
Exactly, thank you. As I mentioned in my Post, I have dealt in Germany with anti-racism, and as such, I can happily say that there is a big understanding within Europeans that being jerk is cool, but being racist or discriminating against anybody, is just wrong. I have read by the way brief protocols of such incidents in Germany where the Locals themselves stood up and even reported to the authorities when necessary.

If I may also add a small story, about comments that people here may say are just done by "Jerks". I was with the Kids at Wollerau, a very nice place with an amazing Playground, what can I say, perfect. There was an Arab Family, which came with more items than the typical Family brought there, so basically brought a lot of Food, Drinks, "opened a Table" as we say where I come from.+

One of the Mothers there was saying something like "oh, schau mal diese Leute, bringen das ganzes Haus" and then was saying she hopes she will clean after them and bla bla bla. I found it so rude and just told her in front of all other people that I believe they are not Tourists and exactly like her they live in the area and have the right to be there. Then I just went with the Kids to play far from there, those are not the people i wish to be around.
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Old 05.09.2021, 17:06
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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1. The 5 parents were there on the match day, not the training. Read the post.

2. Again, some people expect others to learn the local language, perhaps more so if said person is complaining that they're not getting enough information from the club. It's not really unique to Switzerland. And it seems they noticed his ethnicity and commented on it but I wouldn't call it 'picking on' his ethnicity.
The 5 Parents were actually at the Training.

I just shared my feelings about the difference, while at DE we take there each new Family and "bring into Business" very fast, while here, not only they do not do that, or actually saying hi to the new Family, most Parents (and I now asked in several Teams here via other contacts I have) have no idea about what is going ,level of the Team, their kid, so on...

With no connection, my Post was solely about that A person is speaking to B person in english, and a C person decides to play it "Sprache Polizei". What can I say, ABC of Auslander sind Willkommen.
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Old 05.09.2021, 17:24
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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And also, I would speak to who ever I want, never never heard in 5 Years in Germany plus 3 Years in Spain, someone hearing me speaking English to someone else, and instead of shutting up - talking to me like that.

BTW - am i also allowed to talk like that to the Swiss or this is just their right?
I sympathize but you do seem to have a problem magnet as per your threads. Regarding locals taking exception to foreign languages, it could be worse. Just an unconnected example: some Brits take/took exception with Polish speakers on public transport…in all likelihood, it’s not your accent which triggered the other guy.

Sure you can call out anybody (Swiss, Albanian, whatever) for obnoxious behaviour here. I’m told the kids enjoy watching their parents in a punch-up while playing football…
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Old 05.09.2021, 17:29
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

Definitely not condoning what happened, it's completely stupid and ignorant, but I am wondering why you specifically decided to speak in English to the other parents when you can (?) already speak German?
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Old 05.09.2021, 17:52
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Definitely not condoning what happened, it's completely stupid and ignorant, but I am wondering why you specifically decided to speak in English to the other parents when you can (?) already speak German?
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I sympathize but you do seem to have a problem magnet as per your threads. Regarding locals taking exception to foreign languages, it could be worse. Just an unconnected example: some Brits take/took exception with Polish speakers on public transport…in all likelihood, it’s not your accent which triggered the other guy.

Sure you can call out anybody (Swiss, Albanian, whatever) for obnoxious behaviour here. I’m told the kids enjoy watching their parents in a punch-up while playing football…
Both these posts capture my first thoughts reading this post too.

Problem magnet is such a beautifully succinct way of describing how Tom sadly comes across to me. As you and Komo are just down the road, that wouldn’t preclude me from meeting for a beer.

My experience of having expat friends in the 12 years I’ve lived here is that you either *get it* quite quickly and will stay for a long time or you just can’t get along with the country, which is absolutely fine, and leave within 2 years. Tom I think you are going to be in the latter category.
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Old 05.09.2021, 18:27
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

.
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Old 05.09.2021, 18:35
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

I've not heard so much praise about how the Germans welcome foreigners as I did in this thread.

As to the problem at hand, from OP's quote, I take it the other guy was not Swiss either:
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...“Du, was hast mit Englisch was? Schweizer Deutsche ist nicht gut genug für euch Leute?” .....
So he was just a plonker, not worth a second thought I'd say. You'll find those anywhere.
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Old 05.09.2021, 20:27
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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I've not heard so much praise about how the Germans welcome foreigners as I did in this thread.

As to the problem at hand, from OP's quote, I take it the other guy was not Swiss either:


So he was just a plonker, not worth a second thought I'd say. You'll find those anywhere.
Have u been to Germany lately?

I obviously do not speak about some places in East Germany, same as I would not expect several places here in CH to be welcoming.

West is a different story. Take for examples the state of NRW, just as an example, out of many. Real MultiCulti, you go outside to playgrounds, big or small Cities, and u have lots of English speakers around. Not to mention Koln and Düsseldorf, where you have the biggest Japanese Community in the world I think after Japan, lots of Italian, Spanish and many others. Russian Community is maybe the only one not happy to speak English, the rest that's how they communicate.

My German is so so, I worked 50-50 EN-DE, but was real hard as many Times I missed points, for that reason i used to speak English there. Still there are many Friends of mine, especially Asian, who stuck to poor German. Not my position to judge if good or bad just saying they are managing perfectly fine there.

In School the Foreigners were getting lots of help and Teachers always spoke to us English, so we all make sure we understand. Parents Meeting with more than 1,2 Foreigners - Teacher dedicated some Time for English explanations. In the Football Clubs (I know the atmosphere in 10 of them, as our Friends Kids play there - same story. Trainers spoke in English to us and if they could not - other Parents always translated. More than that - we had Whatsapp Groups one with Trainers and one without - in the one without Parents always gave info in English as well, as there they communicate a lot before Games, outfits, Team Parties, Presents for Xmas, ect.


So bottom Line and I got a lot of examples, yes they deserve all the "praise".
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Old 05.09.2021, 21:08
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

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Have u been to Germany lately?

I obviously do not speak about some places in East Germany, same as I would not expect several places here in CH to be welcoming.

West is a different story. Take for examples the state of NRW, just as an example, out of many. Real MultiCulti, you go outside to playgrounds, big or small Cities, and u have lots of English speakers around. Not to mention Koln and Düsseldorf, where you have the biggest Japanese Community in the world I think after Japan, lots of Italian, Spanish and many others. Russian Community is maybe the only one not happy to speak English, the rest that's how they communicate.

My German is so so, I worked 50-50 EN-DE, but was real hard as many Times I missed points, for that reason i used to speak English there. Still there are many Friends of mine, especially Asian, who stuck to poor German. Not my position to judge if good or bad just saying they are managing perfectly fine there.

In School the Foreigners were getting lots of help and Teachers always spoke to us English, so we all make sure we understand. Parents Meeting with more than 1,2 Foreigners - Teacher dedicated some Time for English explanations. In the Football Clubs (I know the atmosphere in 10 of them, as our Friends Kids play there - same story. Trainers spoke in English to us and if they could not - other Parents always translated. More than that - we had Whatsapp Groups one with Trainers and one without - in the one without Parents always gave info in English as well, as there they communicate a lot before Games, outfits, Team Parties, Presents for Xmas, ect.


So bottom Line and I got a lot of examples, yes they deserve all the "praise".
That's good. I'm happy for you.

I have friends who live in Germany for decades of all kinds of colour, brought up their kids there too. Telling me different experiences (not all outraged or whiny, just simple facts of daily life).

And there is the point: You will meet this people and that people. All over the world. You sound home-sick to me - for Germany - so you'll have to give yourself some time. Then decide to move back or on if it doesn't fade.

All the best.
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Old 05.09.2021, 21:30
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

It's odd to me to approach anyone in English, beyond 6 months of living in places with German as the local language (and now you're also expected to be able to communicate in German, which is reasonable).

Irrespective of this situation, doesn't it strike you as indulgent, to expect others to keep bending to your will after all this time, within which, you could have learnt German? How are you expecting to cope in emergencies where you may quickly need to convey factual info accurately?

I'm reflecting on people I meet through volunteering, who throw themselves into learning a local language as quickly as possible. They show an interest in giving, and not just taking, they show they are motivated and hard-working when they have a goal.

How can you be confident everyone bending to your will is conveying info accurately, mindful they are not translators - they're simply trying to be kind, and solve a problem? How can they give their best, and focus, if they're caught-up trying to translate for you? What do your kids make of all of this lack of German learning?
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Old 05.09.2021, 21:51
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Re: Rudeness (to say the least) from Parent at Kids Verein.

How can you force people to approach anyone in one specific langauge ?

Are you talking German to your partner too ? That's just so silly.

You speak the language you most comfortable with.
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