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Old 12.09.2021, 11:46
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Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

Hi,

Today I found out I might have unknowingly bought a stolen bicycle. Today, my bicycle was parked in a train station and someone was waiting for me there, claiming that the bike was his and it was stolen. I bought the bike from the Facebook marketplace in August 2020. We called the police and it seems that, indeed, the bike was stolen. I showed the police the Facebook profile of the seller and my conversation with him before buying the bike.

I had no idea the bike could have been stolen. Currently, the policeman kept the bike for further investigations. I am worried that I might face further accusations.
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Old 12.09.2021, 11:51
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

I am sorry that I can't help you in the situation, but I am curious what the result is. Can you please post an update on the forum.
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Old 12.09.2021, 11:52
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

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Hi,

Today I found out I might have unknowingly bought a stolen bicycle. Today, my bicycle was parked in a train station and someone was waiting for me there, claiming that the bike was his and it was stolen. I bought the bike from the Facebook marketplace in August 2020. We called the police and it seems that, indeed, the bike was stolen. I showed the police the Facebook profile of the seller and my conversation with him before buying the bike.

I had no idea the bike could have been stolen. Currently, the policeman kept the bike for further investigations. I am worried that I might face further accusations.

Where did you originally steal it from? Station too?
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Old 12.09.2021, 11:57
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

For your next dodgy purchase, I’d advise selecting a vendor whose location hasn’t got a direct train connection to your town
- do you have a receipt for the sale?
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Old 12.09.2021, 12:12
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

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Where did you originally steal it from? Station too?
I have not stolen it. I bought it from another person.
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Old 12.09.2021, 12:13
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

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For your next dodgy purchase, I’d advise selecting a vendor whose location hasn’t got a direct train connection to your town
- do you have a receipt for the sale?
I haven't asked for the receipt because the bicycle was low value.
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Old 12.09.2021, 12:15
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

A similar story - sorry, I found it in Italian but involves Switzerland:

https://www.tio.ch/svizzera/cronaca/...na-bici-rubata

After a trial the buyer of the stolen bike was fined for a total of 380 CHF for handling of stolen goods. He intended to appeal, have no more news.
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Old 12.09.2021, 12:40
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

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A similar story - sorry, I found it in Italian but involves Switzerland:

https://www.tio.ch/svizzera/cronaca/...na-bici-rubata

After a trial the buyer of the stolen bike was fined for a total of 380 CHF for handling of stolen goods. He intended to appeal, have no more news.
Thanks! The page also mentions a 3 year susspension. What does that mean?
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Old 12.09.2021, 12:50
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

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I had no idea the bike could have been stolen. Currently, the policeman kept the bike for further investigations. I am worried that I might face further accusations.
The fact that you have proof that you bought it in good faith should absolve you of guilt if my reading of the Swiss Criminal Code is correct.

Quote:
Handling stolen goods
Art. 160
1. Any person who takes possession of, accepts as a gift or as the subject of a pledge, conceals, or assists in the disposal of goods which he knows or must assume have been acquired by way of an offence against property shall be liable to a custodial sentence not exceeding five years or to a monetary penalty.
I'm just assuming you didn't pay CHF 300 for a CHF 3,000 bike
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Old 12.09.2021, 12:52
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

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A similar story - sorry, I found it in Italian but involves Switzerland:

https://www.tio.ch/svizzera/cronaca/...na-bici-rubata

After a trial the buyer of the stolen bike was fined for a total of 380 CHF for handling of stolen goods. He intended to appeal, have no more news.
Thanks for the link, I have to correct you however:

The article says the fine is a suspended fine of 6 daily rates (6 * 30 CHF =180 CHF). The fine is suspended so only payable if he does it again within the probationary term.

He does have to pay 200 CHF but those are court fees and expressly not a fine.

Not sure what the factors are for being convicted for buying fenced goods in Switzerland but in the Netherlands it's whether you could have reasonably known the goods were stolen (most often due to an unbelievable low price) and I imagine Switzerland is similar.

Of course the only cases in the NL I know of are cases where people are buying good condition bikes for 5 Euro, not sure whether paing 400 CHF for a second hand bike with new value 3200 CHF would have qualified in the NL (that's still 12.5% of the new price). Perhaps there were other factors (?) but in this case the actions of the buyer (going to an official shop with the chassis number present, leaving the bike there etc) seem to imply he acted in good faith and should not have been convicted in my opinion.
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Old 12.09.2021, 13:04
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

Thanks for the answers! I paid 100 CHF for a bike worth of at most 300 CHF when new (I found it online for 150 euros). The bike was heavily used when I bought it so the price seemed fair. I even had to replace some parts as they broke soon after I bought the bike.
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Old 12.09.2021, 13:07
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

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Thanks for the answers! I paid 100 CHF for a bike worth of at most 300 CHF when new (I found it online for 150 euros). The bike was heavily used when I bought it so the price seemed fair. I even had to replace some parts as they broke soon after I bought the bike.
I'd say highly unlikely you'll be fined (ianal) but you'll lose the bike and it's up to you to get money back from the "seller"/"thief".
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Old 12.09.2021, 20:23
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

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I'd say highly unlikely you'll be fined (ianal) but you'll lose the bike and it's up to you to get money back from the "seller"/"thief".
Unless it's found that OP acted in good faith, which may well apply here.

The German version of the civil code speaks of "bewegliche Sache", mobile goods, i.e. everything that's not fixed to the ground like real estate, plants in the soil, etc.

§714 of the civil code:
Quote:
Art. 714
1 Transfer of chattel ownership requires the delivery of possession to the acquirer.

2 A person who in good faith receives possession of a chattel as owner will become its owner even if the transferor is not authorised to alienate it as soon his or her possession of it is protected according to the provisions governing possession.
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Old 12.09.2021, 20:32
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

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Thanks! The page also mentions a 3 year susspension. What does that mean?
The sentence is suspended for three years.

Tom
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Old 12.09.2021, 21:16
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

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Thanks for the link, I have to correct you however:

The article says the fine is a suspended fine of 6 daily rates (6 * 30 CHF =180 CHF). The fine is suspended so only payable if he does it again within the probationary term.
Close. The fine becomes payable if he is found guilty of any other crime during the suspension period.
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Old 12.09.2021, 21:56
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

Odd thing to me is that the original owner recognised his CHF300 bike after 13 months and replacement parts…
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Old 12.09.2021, 22:03
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

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Thanks! The page also mentions a 3 year susspension. What does that mean?
After hanging they place the body in a gibbet.
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Old 12.09.2021, 22:04
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

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Odd thing to me is that the original owner recognised his CHF300 bike after 13 months and replacement parts…
The wheels had been replaced three times, the handlebars four times and the frame twice.
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Old 12.09.2021, 23:27
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

I found this in German: https://entscheidsuche.ch/direkt_kan...KG-2012-05.pdf



Der Besitzer, dem eine bewegliche Sache gestohlen wird,
kann sie gemäss Art.934 Abs.1 ZGB während fünf Jahren
jedem Empfänger abfordern. Ein Eigentumserwerb an ei-
ner gestohlenen Sache ist also selbst bei gutgläubigem
Erwerb erst nach fünf Jahren möglich. Ist die Sache öf-
fentlich versteigert, auf dem Markt oder durch einen Kauf-
mann, der mit Waren der gleichen Art handelt, übertragen
worden, kann sie dem ersten und jedem späteren gut-
gläubigen Erwerber allerdings nur gegen Vergütung des
von ihm bezahlten Preises abgefordert werden (Art.934
Abs.2 ZGB)


If I read this correctly: Even if you bought the bike in good faith, you have to give it back to the original owner, if the purchase happened less then five years ago. (More then five years, and good faith, you can keep the bike.)


Now it gets interesting if you bought the bike at a public auction, on a market or from a merchant dealing in similar goods, the original owner can still demand the bike back, but he has to give you the same amount of money you paid for it. I wonder if Facebook marketplace could be construed as belonging to one of this categories.

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Old 13.09.2021, 07:04
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Re: Bought a secondhand stolen bicycle

This post from four years ago, concerning a stolen car, suggests the innocent seller has nothing to worry about.
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