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  #181  
Old 12.09.2021, 22:16
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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The not vaxxed can always take a test and if negative will get a certificate that enables them to enjoy bars, restaurants, gyms, theatres, etc.
You mean I should go get infected by a vaccinated person when I'm freshly tested healthy? Why would I do that?

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Survival rate is quite low with COVID in ICU so using triage won't make a huge difference on final outcome, as you treat the people most likely to survive.
Shouldn't that be in the covid thread? Mod?
Just saying.

I actually think this thread is kind of important, this division within the country is a unprecedented situation in Switzerland. It's against everything Switzerland stands for.
So it should be kept clear of pro/anti vaccination but about what the situation of the two party society will cause, how it will develop, who seriously suffers while how creative some will become.
Anything basic about covid and opinions about it should be moved strictly to the covid thread .
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  #182  
Old 12.09.2021, 22:17
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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Johnson & Johnson ad26.cov2.s vaccines utilize an adenovirus vector, not mRNA.
I did not realise it was approved for use in Switzerland, are you saying it's now an option?
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  #183  
Old 12.09.2021, 22:18
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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So far I hear no unvaccinated people moaning.
Me either. Plenty of hysterical wailing from them in this thread though.
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  #184  
Old 12.09.2021, 22:18
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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I did not realise it was approved for use in Switzerland, are you saying it's now an option?
It's approved by Swissmedic, but BAG did not buy it. Not sure what this means in practice, e.g. if a doctor could order it for you.
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  #185  
Old 12.09.2021, 22:20
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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Btw, I have an uncle who also did not buy the idea of this vaccine and took Covid very lightly. Then he got it. He was extremely healthy and thus thought he would recover quickly.

He went from being sick to being in the ICU to being on the high risk list within 96 hours. Almost in a blink of an eye.
It was touch and go for him. He was very lucky to survive.
I saw his lung scans post recovery. Worse than a chain smokers lungs.
He will have life long impact from his covid stint.

You can choose what you want to believe.
That is the point of personal freedom.

But when your choice creates a high probability that others can get infected because you choose to either not believe in the virus or the vaccine, then there is a challenge.

And when because of your choice, you can fall sick and the hospitals have to treat you and push other planned surgeries out because of the Covid overload, then it is an issue.
Because then your choice is no longer your personal choice.
It is negatively impacting those who don't have any say on your choice.

The same way you can choose not to vaccinate your child but then sending an invaccinated child into the school is putting other children at risk and thus no longer a private decision but a public one.

I have worked in the vaccines industry and I know the people who work on them. They are amongst the most dedicated, passionate and committed people I have seen. I have huge respect for the work they do at great personal cost.

Personally I see vaccines as miracle cures because these have allowed us to get rid of deadly diseases at meagre cost (the biggest problem in vaccines is that the world does not want to pay for them....I hope that changes now).

So this will be my last post on this discussion.

I have zero interest in convincing anyone of vaccine efficacy.

We are lucky that we live in a country where we get the best vaccines in the market at zero costs. Many other countries are very envious of us.

We are lucky to live in a time where we could create a vaccine within a very short time to combat Covid (trust me it is not easy and I can only imagine how much effort it would have taken).
This has allowed us the luxury of vaccine hesitancy.

Whether you believe in the efficacy of the vaccine is irrelevant.
If you have a better protective option than a vaccine, then use it.

Because, amazing as it may sound, the virus does not care for your belief system.
And it will not check whether you believe in the vaccine or not when it attacks you.

I hope you and your loved ones remain safe and healthy irrespective of which choice you exercise.
I’m sure these people are dedicated and all that, but it is their employers that are not to be trusted. Maybe you should have a look at the following:

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  #186  
Old 12.09.2021, 22:20
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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What ? They are vaccinated.

Just because the western government refuses to accept Chinese or Indian vaccines, doesn't mean they are less effective.

The whole thing is such a shit show and people go crazy here when covid pass is being compared to the yellow badge.

It is exactly that
So they should have no problem getting a negative test result.
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  #187  
Old 12.09.2021, 22:24
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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I’m sure these people are dedicated and all that, but it is their employers that are not to be trusted. Maybe you should have a look at the following:

Link does not work just see "Sorry, had to reupload this video, its the same as the poorly uploaded previous version. United States, Delta variant, acknowledge the war has changed"
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  #188  
Old 12.09.2021, 22:25
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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So they should have no problem getting a negative test result.
they have exactly the same vaccine you did. why you can go free but they need to pay for a test every 3 days ?
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  #189  
Old 12.09.2021, 22:27
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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I very politely, for the second time, asked the little Swiss mouse about who those are who can't get vaccinated (for non medical reasons),
But answer came there none. That makes me sad.
She explained herself many times over.

I happen to disagree with her assessment but you can't accuse her of not explaining it.
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  #190  
Old 12.09.2021, 22:54
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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Very funny. Great satire!

Switzerland unable to afford 400 million francs a years. That's barely a rounding error.
Yes, I was taking the piss.

But actually: While Switzerland had depths of 0.3 "Milliarden" (I write it in German as it always leads to misunderstanding in translations), 2020 added 15.5 "Milliarden" in depths! admin.ch, sorry, only in three languages of the country.

You know, Switzerland is this "funny" country which does not believe in spending money it ain't got. And all the hard work Maurer did is for naught. He may be SVP but he is gooood at finances. And I don't know if he will stay in the Bundesrat long enough to get us out of this again, after all, he will want to retire some day.

You will argue that it was not the vaccine (alone) which got us here and you're right. But 400 million franks a year (bloody hell, where did you get that number?) is not the way to go.
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  #191  
Old 12.09.2021, 23:05
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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You know, Switzerland is this "funny" country which does not believe in spending money it ain't got. And all the hard work Maurer did is for naught. He may be SVP but he is gooood at finances. And I don't know if he will stay in the Bundesrat long enough to get us out of this again, after all, he will want to retire some day.

You will argue that it was not the vaccine (alone) which got us here and you're right. But 400 million franks a year (bloody hell, where did you get that number?) is not the way to go.
Exactly

And its not just the cost of the vaccine. Look at all the restaurants who are going under. Look at all the other long term damage. The government is going to have to do a lot of bailing out and fixing for years to come.

And all this because a couple of people were scared of a virus that wasn't going to kill them anyway, and nobody had the balls to tell them to go f.o.?

Future generations are going to be scratching their heads wondering how we could all be so stupid.
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  #192  
Old 12.09.2021, 23:12
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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I did not realise it was approved for use in Switzerland, are you saying it's now an option?
J&J has been approved in Switzerland but they (the government) put their order in a little late! I think I read somewhere that supplies would arrive by year end? Not sure...

My OH and I were vaccinated with the J&J vaccine this summer in the US.

First thing I did when we returned back was to apply for a COVID certificate here in Switzerland. It took 2 weeks for them to process but we have it now. Very happy with the timing!
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  #193  
Old 12.09.2021, 23:14
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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And all this because a couple of people were scared of a virus that wasn't going to kill them anyway, and nobody had the balls to tell them to go f.o.?

.
Tell that to my landlord who ended up in the iCU because of covid. Or a neighbor who died of it. Sorry, but now you’re just ignoring the facts.
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  #194  
Old 12.09.2021, 23:29
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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Exactly

And its not just the cost of the vaccine. Look at all the restaurants who are going under. Look at all the other long term damage. The government is going to have to do a lot of bailing out and fixing for years to come.....
Naaa, that's the job of the vaccinated now.
They will all be obese and alcoholics once this thing is over.

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J&J has been approved in Switzerland but they (the government) put their order in a little late! I think I read somewhere that supplies would arrive by year end? Not sure...

My OH and I were vaccinated with the J&J vaccine this summer in the US.

First thing I did when we returned back was to apply for a COVID certificate here in Switzerland. It took 2 weeks for them to process but we have it now. Very happy with the timing!
Did you have any side-effects from it (minor .... major)
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  #195  
Old 12.09.2021, 23:44
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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Exactly

And its not just the cost of the vaccine. Look at all the restaurants who are going under. Look at all the other long term damage. The government is going to have to do a lot of bailing out and fixing for years to come.

And all this because a couple of people were scared of a virus that wasn't going to kill them anyway, and nobody had the balls to tell them to go f.o.?

Future generations are going to be scratching their heads wondering how we could all be so stupid.
Some entrepreneurs will buy the restaurants and any other failed businesses for rappen on the franc and the economy will surge up again
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  #196  
Old 12.09.2021, 23:52
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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Enjoy it!!

I myself am enjoying my final day of freedom at Castle Lenzburg. May post some pictures later for those who are castle fans
Thanks for spending your last CHF while free on Rüebliland, ZH did not deserve them
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  #197  
Old 13.09.2021, 00:02
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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Enjoy it!!

I myself am enjoying my final day of freedom at Castle Lenzburg. May post some pictures later for those who are castle fans
Your freedoms aren’t limited. You are free to make a choice, get vaccinated and have a social life, or don’t get vaccinated at stay the f@&k at home. Feel free to make your preferred choice.
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  #198  
Old 13.09.2021, 00:16
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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Tell that to my landlord who ended up in the iCU because of covid. Or a neighbor who died of it. Sorry, but now you’re just ignoring the facts.
Isn't it strange that the cheerleaders of the government all know several people who have died or been in ICU. One facebook friend claims six close relatives have died.

So if you don't want to die, better not have too many cheerleader friends.
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  #199  
Old 13.09.2021, 00:24
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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Isn't it strange that the cheerleaders of the government all know several people who have died or been in ICU. One facebook friend claims six close relatives have died.

So if you don't want to die, better not have too many cheerleader friends.
Some people have friends, others ignore reality by living in a pretend world.
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  #200  
Old 13.09.2021, 01:21
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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There are 3 types of people who aren't vaccinated, as things currently stand, I would say.
  1. Those without the choice because of access barriers, who would like to receive the injection (who also have no choice about testing)
  2. Those who are against all injections lifelong
  3. Those who don't yet feel ready to receive the COVID injection based on how little is known about the in/significance of it in these early days, and are waiting for longer-term data and studies to inform their choice
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I'd really like to know who's those are in category one.
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Sans papiers for example.
Yes, this. And here are some further examples of people I understand to be in in CliiniMuus's Category One.

Registration: Anyone else whose administration, registration or similar is not up-to-date or not deemed relevant. As an example: a Swiss friend of mine who lives abroad and is currenlty visiting his family Switzerland, but is not registered as residing here (because he truly doesn't).

Booking: People who don't have the online resources (no pc, no laptop, old phone), or if they do, who lack the technical skills to use same to book an appointment online. Or who lack the social skills or language competency to book an appointment in person. And who do not have friends to whom they could appeal, for help, and don't know where else to go to ask for help, or no-one has time to help them, or the place to which they appeal is not in charge of such matters.

Time Planning: Persons who are not cognitively able or not psychologically sufficiently stable to figure out how to get themselves an appointment, and/or to find their way to the place, and/or to ensure they can coordinate their time properly to actually turn up there as arranged.

Addiction: Persons who have managed to get the appointment, and managed to turn up, but who are then too intoxicated with their addictive substance(s), so that the medical staff turn them away, deeming them not robust enough (at least not then and there) to receive a vaccination.

Human Trafficking: Persons who have been lured into the country by traffickers, and now work as prostitutes or household slaves but, having had their passports confiscated by their pimps, and having been threatened that, were they to try to escape the Swiss authorities would imprison them, may want to get vaccinated but cannot move out of the grid in which they have been entrapped.

Organisation, Mobility and Exhaustion: Persons who need support due to their physical, cognitive or psychological impairments, to cope with arranging, getting to, understanding and safely submitting themselves to the vaccination, but who don't, in fact, have someone to provide that support. This could be because they don't know where to apply for it or don't have the energy to figure out how to get help from, say, a volunteer organisation or perhaps from a Spitex.

Money, or lack thereof: Persons who need transport, and/or to pay someone to help them, but who can't because they don't have enough money to pay for the helpers' wages.

And so on.
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