Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited - Page 13

amogles · #**241** 13.09.2021, 11:44

	Quote:	John_H
	I had an interesting message from my gym .. Either > 1.We'll have to show our vax certificates 2. We'll have to show negative test, 72 hrs etc 3. Go to gym in a special class to be announced. Wondering what option 3 is .. I'll find out tomorrow.. Although I'll just show my golden ticket anyway

this would imply you can worm around the certificate requirements by claiming to be a "special class"?

amogles · #**242** 13.09.2021, 11:50

	Quote:	wachtwoord
	The can still abort outside of Texas. Why do you think so many travel to Switzerland for euthanasia. Not saying I agree with stricter abortion laws (I most definitely don't) but because of its more limited scope (applies only to pregnant women in Texas) is actually a little less oppresive than the vaccination-coercion through anti-constitutional right restrictions.

i don't know about Switzerland but lots of people are leaving Germany.

i chatted to an estate agent last week who is specialized in helping people relocate from Germany to Sweden and she says she sold 10 times as many houses in the last month compared to a typical August. She is doing so well that she spontaneously bought herself a fancy new BMW. Half the time she is leaving the phone switched off because she doesn't have the time and energy to deal with all the people knocking on her door. She says they are virtually all unvaxxed.

curley · #**243** 13.09.2021, 11:58

	Quote:	otec
	ICUs can't have limited beds 1.5years into pandemic. This is clearly government failure but for some reason no one got fired or have their end of year bonus forfeit. You are making assumptions on fundamentally broken basement.

Initiative has passed all hurdles, Bundesrat wanted to reject it without counterproposal (would you believe!

), parliament saw that differently and worked out a counterproposal (which seems very limp but I have to study that first in detail).
We vote about it November 28, 2021.

curley · #**244** 13.09.2021, 12:01

	Quote:	amogles
	this would imply you can worm around the certificate requirements by claiming to be a "special class"?

Self-help group

I might become very religious for a while.

amogles · #**245** 13.09.2021, 12:09

	Quote:	curley
	Self-help group I might become very religious for a while.

me too.

The spaghetti monster has revealed to me that he/she/it/they/xe/ye/ze is very displeased about QR codes because they are sacriligeous mockery of grated cheese.

i need to seek repentance and antonement by drinking beer, wine and whisky with like minded people.

V__ · #**246** 13.09.2021, 12:11

	Quote:	amogles
	this would imply you can worm around the certificate requirements by claiming to be a "special class"?

You already have the Police, Medical and other syndicates have rejected all ideas on obligatory vaccination. Furthermore, there is no info on vaccination rate among medical staff, for example. If the people in the trenches are hesitant, what kind of picture does it give to the regular Joes?

Nobody is forcing the government employees to get the jab, the burden has fallen on the hospitality sector to somewhat try to increase the vaccination rate. It won't work.

Blueangel · #**247** 13.09.2021, 12:11

	Quote:	John_H
	A two tiered society seems to be where we are heading.. We're building a list of things that only one side of the fence may participate in.

What may be a bigger impact is if health insurance companies increase premiums for unvaccinated clients. I honestly don't know if this is possible or likely, but from this, I believe they may be aware which of their clients are vaccinated and which aren't.

	Quote:
	Costs are divided between the Swiss Confederation, cantons and health insurance companies. Coronavirus vaccination invoices are sent directly to your insurance company.

https://www.groupemutuel.ch/en/priva...ronavirus.html

amogles · #**248** 13.09.2021, 12:13

	Quote:	Blueangel
	What may be a bigger impact is if health insurance companies increase premiums for unvaccinated clients. I honestly don't know if this is possible or likely,

i think on the contrary, if they start talking about withholding treatment, clients will be asking for reduced premiums, and that might mean people stop getting vaccinated for financial gain.

with most at risk people already being vaxxed, and these people being likely to need treatment for something soon anyway, and lots of perfectly healthy people being unvaxxed, the insurers might feel the pinch as contributions slow down while costs don't.

they would be very foolish to even contemplate such a policy.

even people actually concerned about the virus could get vaccinated abroad or in an unregulated clinic so the health insurer doesn't fiod out and then claim to be unvaxxed for insurance purposes.

Blueangel · #**249** 13.09.2021, 12:28

	Quote:	amogles
	Less than one percent will die.

Post vaccination, that may be the case.

However, currently, the percentage of people who tested positive and later died of covid is currently 1.36% for Switzerland and 1.85% for the UK. That's just calculating the current stats on worldometers.

wachtwoord · #**250** 13.09.2021, 12:29

	Quote:	Blueangel
	What may be a bigger impact is if health insurance companies increase premiums for unvaccinated clients.

In Switzerland not even governments (on any level) are allowed to keep records of who is vaccinated and who is not. That's why they can't even approach unvaccinated people directly to try and shill their vaccines as is done in some countries.

amogles · #**251** 13.09.2021, 12:36

	Quote:	wachtwoord
	In Switzerland not even governments (on any level) are allowed to keep records of who is vaccinated and who is not. That's why they can't even approach unvaccinated people directly to try and shill their vaccines as is done in some countries.

i have an aunt in the uk (actually a retired pediatrician herself) who was cold called several times by somebody trying to set up a vaxx appointment.

she said they were very insistent and would not take no for an answer and kept on calling back.

she finally had to resort to using some very ugly language to make them back off.

Blueangel · #**252** 13.09.2021, 12:42

	Quote:	amogles
	i think on the contrary, if they start talking about withholding treatment, clients will be asking for reduced premiums, and that might mean people stop getting vaccinated for financial gain.

You know that's not how insurance works. I was just pondering the possibility that there could be some minor impact felt.

curley · #**253** 13.09.2021, 12:42

	Quote:	wachtwoord
	In Switzerland not even governments (on any level) are allowed to keep records of who is vaccinated and who is not. That's why they can't even approach unvaccinated people directly to try and shill their vaccines as is done in some countries.

Don't be too sure about that. The vaccinations - though paid by the "Bund" were organized and billed via the health insurers. And I doubt they did that without giving names (as they could have cheated big time). So yup, I am sure it is neatly registered somewhere. Which means: A job waiting for the data protection official.
This whole thing will cause a string of consequences and it won't be fought out in the streets like in France. That's not how it's done here.

wachtwoord · #**254** 13.09.2021, 12:47

	Quote:	amogles
	i have an aunt in the uk (actually a retired pediatrician herself) who was cold called several times by somebody trying to set up a vaxx appointment. she said they were very insistent and would not take no for an answer and kept on calling back. she finally had to resort to using some very ugly language to make them back off.

Call me and we're not talking about vaccinations and I am the one asking the questions. Where did you get my data? What is your name and affiliation? If you call me again I'll file a police report.

wachtwoord · #**255** 13.09.2021, 12:49

	Quote:	curley
	Don't be too sure about that. The vaccinations - though paid by the "Bund" were organized and billed via the health insurers. And I doubt they did that without giving names (as they could have cheated big time). So yup, I am sure it is neatly registered somewhere. Which means: A job waiting for the data protection official. This whole thing will cause a string of consequences and it won't be fought out in the streets like in France. That's not how it's done here.

Even if they have the data they shouldn't (by law) so are not allowed to use it. I'm not a lawyer but sounds like a rather straightforward court with predictable oitcome to me. Am I wrong?

amogles · #**256** 13.09.2021, 12:51

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Post vaccination, that may be the case. However, currently, the percentage of people who tested positive and later died of covid is currently 1.36% for Switzerland and 1.85% for the UK. That's just calculating the current stats on worldometers.

this is a conditional probability because not everybody was infected, and not everybody who was infected necessarily knows or reported it, and not everybody who died after having covid necessarily died as a result of having had covid.

with average lifespan being somewhere in the mid 80s, you would expect about 1.25% of the population to die every year anyway. In a country like Switzerland with clearly more immigration than emmigration, you would expect a higher mortality than that even, because people tend to immigrate into the higher age bands.

Blueangel · #**257** 13.09.2021, 12:54

	Quote:	wachtwoord
	In Switzerland not even governments (on any level) are allowed to keep records of who is vaccinated and who is not.

Really?

	Quote:
	In the vaccination center or in the pharmacy The process differs depending on the type of registration: Use the accordion controls to toggle the visibility of the respective panels (below the controls). You have registered online using the cantonal vaccination tool The COVID certificate is created automatically for people who, when registering in the cantonal vaccination tool, ticked that their vaccination data may be passed on to create the vaccination certificate: You will be notified by SMS as soon as your certificate has been generated after the vaccination has been completed. You can log into the cantonal vaccination tool via the link in the SMS and download your certificate to print it out or save it in the Covid Certificate app.

https://www.zh.ch/de/gesundheit/coro...ml#-2147474574

Biro · #**258** 13.09.2021, 12:58

	Quote:	Blueangel
	What may be a bigger impact is if health insurance companies increase premiums for unvaccinated clients. I honestly don't know if this is possible or likely, but from this, I believe they may be aware which of their clients are vaccinated and which aren't. https://www.groupemutuel.ch/en/priva...ronavirus.html

Sure they are aware, you hand over your insurance card before being vaccinated.

They may not know right now, but all the inforamtion is available somewhere.....

runningdeer · #**259** 13.09.2021, 13:00

	Quote:	John_H
	I had an interesting message from my gym .. Either > 1.We'll have to show our vax certificates 2. We'll have to show negative test, 72 hrs etc 3. Go to gym in a special class to be announced. Wondering what option 3 is .. I'll find out tomorrow.. Although I'll just show my golden ticket anyway

	Quote:	amogles
	this would imply you can worm around the certificate requirements by claiming to be a "special class"?

As I understand, already got an email from a sports club family participates, there is this exception for people who regularly train together, certain max. 30 I think. The way it was written seems to be made for football clubs. Seems some gyms and the like are tacking on to this to set up specific training hour sessions to meet this criterion. In my case, it is a set group of people, less than 30, that regularly meet for sport X on day X at X pm. So fits the bill. But admit there is probably a big loophole here that gyms are using now that probably wasn't anticipated.

curley · #**260** 13.09.2021, 13:00

	Quote:	wachtwoord
	Even if they have the data they shouldn't (by law) so are not allowed to use it. I'm not a lawyer but sounds like a rather straightforward court with predictable oitcome to me. Am I wrong?

Had you read my post properly, you would know that's exactly what I said.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Really? https://www.zh.ch/de/gesundheit/coro...ml#-2147474574

Yes, really.