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  #321  
Old 14.09.2021, 13:07
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

"as we do with the flu" could be good news.

we don't have lockdowns over the flu nor bully people into getting the shot.

in fact most people don't give a sh*t

and remember the flu has now been almost completely eradicated
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  #322  
Old 14.09.2021, 13:09
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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I am struggling to see which freedoms have been curtailed. I have a vaccination certificate so can visit pubs and restaurants.
i have a vaccination certificate too and i can't.

i am being discriminated for having the wrong name.
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  #323  
Old 14.09.2021, 13:12
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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I am struggling to see which freedoms have been curtailed. I have a vaccination certificate so can visit pubs and restaurants.
Half population in CH doesn't have it.
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  #324  
Old 14.09.2021, 13:39
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

https://twitter.com/TimesofIsrael/st...05679736303618

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In response to Shaked's suggestion that the "green pass" could be removed as a requirement for outdoor seating at restaurants, Horowitz said: "For swimming pools, too, not just in restaurants." "Epidemiologically, it's true," said Horowitz, adding, "The thing is, I'm telling you, our problem is people who don't get vaccinated. We need [to influence] them a bit; otherwise, we won’t get out of this [pandemic situation].
Surprise surprise!
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  #325  
Old 14.09.2021, 14:25
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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I am struggling to see which freedoms have been curtailed. I have a vaccination certificate so can visit pubs and restaurants.
The freedoms that have been curtailed include those of business owners (restaurateurs etc) to serve all potential patrons, patrons whom, for whatever reason do not have a COVID certificate.

One of the more egregious limitations of people’s freedoms is those of students who can no longer attend in person lectures at some Swiss universities.
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  #326  
Old 14.09.2021, 14:29
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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Are you saying that getting a vaccine is an appalling demonstration of cowardice and lack of common sense? It’s free, it takes about 45 seconds, and it prevents you from getting sick…where’s the lack of common sense? Around 2 billion of flu shots are made every year, and I don’t hear people rallying in the streets againts the stupidity of getting a simple shot to prevent getting the flu.
No I'm not saying that at all .

I am double vaccinated, and I think it is a complete no brainer to do so. I think the covid certificate and not reopening is "an appalling demonstration of cowardice and lack of common sense". I pointed to the extremely low death rates we are now seeing.

Certainly in Malta - who are really well protected. In the rest of western Europe for the most part too.
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  #327  
Old 14.09.2021, 14:46
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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The freedoms that have been curtailed include those of business owners (restaurateurs etc) to serve all potential patrons, patrons whom, for whatever reason do not have a COVID certificate.

One of the more egregious limitations of people’s freedoms is those of students who can no longer attend in person lectures at some Swiss universities.
True.. The gastro industry has been decimated and this latest ruling is a disgrace. It is using pubs and restaurants as a carrot and stick approach to get more vaccinated.

So many shops also gone on my local street.

Cynical point ,but not a surprise McDonalds still operated as normal throughout lockdown and still now has circumvented losing customers.
Perhaps start McVaccine in a happy meal ? (joke)

Also cannot understand why the official covid reporting site does not give cases for vaccinated/unvaccinated???


https://www.covid19.admin.ch/en/epid...me=28d&rel=abs
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  #328  
Old 14.09.2021, 14:49
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

This is what Covid science looks like



while peasants stand here

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  #329  
Old 14.09.2021, 14:53
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

On the contrary. It means the chances of a future lockdown and curtailments on normal life are reduced. And I can go to restaurants and pubs while avoiding covidiot Karens and Kens.

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The freedoms that have been curtailed include those of business owners (restaurateurs etc) to serve all potential patrons, patrons whom, for whatever reason do not have a COVID certificate.

One of the more egregious limitations of people’s freedoms is those of students who can no longer attend in person lectures at some Swiss universities.

Last edited by nickatbasel; 14.09.2021 at 17:01.
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  #330  
Old 14.09.2021, 14:56
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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One of the more egregious limitations of people’s freedoms is those of students who can no longer attend in person lectures at some Swiss universities.
Indeed, at least the 28 universities of applied sciences (HES). The motivation in bold type below.

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Posted on 09.13.2021. Updated on 09.13.2021.

Following the latest decisions of the Federal Council, the HES-SO has decided to make the Covid certificate compulsory from the start of the academic year. The 28 universities that make it up have agreed on the basic principles for implementing the certificate. Each will then adapt the detailed modalities according to the directives of its canton and the specificities of the study streams. This measure ensures that students receive quality face-to-face training, which is essential for the development of the practical skills that are the DNA of the HES-SO.
https://www.hes-so.ch/actualites/det...ree-academique

It seems the options on the menu were: i) face-to-face education for only a few students with certificate, or (ii) close shop and education for no one until cases go down.

I'd be interested to know the percentage of students of universities of applied sciences that don't want the vaccine. Simple curiosity.
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  #331  
Old 14.09.2021, 14:59
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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On the contrary. It means the chances of a future lockdown and curtailments on normal life are reduced.
Thats BS. Sweden never had any lockdowns.
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  #332  
Old 14.09.2021, 16:26
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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On the contrary. It means the chances of a future lockdown and curtailments on normal life are reduced.
The chances of a future lockdown are entirely in the hands of the government.

If they want a lockdown they will find a reason for one.
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  #333  
Old 14.09.2021, 16:27
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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On the contrary. It means the chances of a future lockdown and curtailments on normal life are reduced.
I guess if it is successful it getting the unvaccinated to get vaccinated it will have a small effect - but its overall not a scientifically or epidemiologically justified measure (see Israeli health minister). Its a political measure to exert pressure on the unvaccinated.
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  #334  
Old 14.09.2021, 17:02
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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I guess if it is successful it getting the unvaccinated to get vaccinated it will have a small effect - but its overall not a scientifically or epidemiologically justified measure (see Israeli health minister). Its a political measure to exert pressure on the unvaccinated.
I agree ,plus it is now clearly evolving into using the unvaccinated a scapegoat for the complete shambles that the Covid approach has been.
There is a mitigating amount of hindsight obviously as nobody knew the age demographic wouldn’t be even for fatalities.

Now its just Pharma companies pushing politicians and politicians squirming out of terrible Covid management.
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  #335  
Old 14.09.2021, 17:28
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

Went to the Glatt Zentrum in Zürich today for the first time in two years, it was very quiet, with very few customers.
Bought some books, jeans, coffee, and cake - had a lovely day.
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  #336  
Old 14.09.2021, 18:28
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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Went to the Glatt Zentrum in Zürich today for the first time in two years, it was very quiet, with very few customers.
Bought some books, jeans, coffee, and cake - had a lovely day.
Funny. Not that I ever go there anymore - not in years - but I was wondering about Glatt this afternoon. Do they want a covid passport? Abroad they use it in malls but in Switzerland I've not heard whether it's the same?
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  #337  
Old 14.09.2021, 18:59
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

Each Canton's guidance would need to be checked. Here's the guidance for Basel-Stadt for example:
https://www.coronavirus.bs.ch/verans...eistungen.html
Gastronomie

Für Restaurations-, Bar- und Clubbetriebe, in denen die Konsumation vor Ort erfolgt, gilt Folgendes:
  • Die Betriebe müssen bei Personen ab 16 Jahren den Zugang zu Innenbereichen auf Personen mit einem Zertifikat beschränken.
  • Den Zugang zu Aussenbereichen können die Betriebe für Personen ab 16 Jahren auf Personen mit einem Zertifikat beschränken; sieht ein Betrieb im Aussenbereich keine Beschränkung des Zugangs vor, so muss zwischen den Gästegruppen entweder der erforderliche Abstand eingehalten oder müssen wirksame Abschrankungen angebracht werden. Die Gästegruppen sollten sich aber nicht durchmischen.
Quick translation: The restaurants and bars can restrict access to the outside areas to those with injection or test certificate (keeping in mind how complicated the implementation is for small businesses, if they try to track per person instead of broadly). If they don't choose to implement that, they have to either implement distancing between the groups of guests, or ut up barriers between groups of guests.

No mention about toilets, which is an important ommision.
--------------------------

Some limited personal observations and reflections after talking to some of those I know working in bars and restaurants. If there's an outdoor seating option:
  1. restaurants generally want everyone seated there (weather-permitting), to avoid the extra work they cannot afford to take on checking certificates (limited staff, limited finances), and they don't have business devices for such checking, and don't feel private devices should be used
  2. people with certificates want to sit outside, as it was before this certificate mandate, because it's nicer to sit outside currently (and they don't care much about who they are seated amongst, as they didn't previously)
  3. pockets of resistance to certificates and ID being checked from those who've received the injection, so they're heading for the outdoor seating if the checks aren't conducted there and they have an ethical objection to the checking ( happy to have received the injection, not happy to be tracked because of it)
  4. all smokers stand together to chat and share lighters, and they don't care much about whether someone has received the injection, or not
  5. the toilets are shared by all and sundry, and people don't care much about whether someone has received the injection, or not
  6. if people see their friends or acquaintances outdoors or indoors, they head straight to them to say hello, and people don't care much about whether someone has received the injection, or not
  7. some bars with limited staff and multiple entrances have put mounted tablets or phones doors they can't staff loaded with their own app, with step by step instructions showing how to scan the certificate and ID
Those checking certificates and ID without outdoor seating seem to largely be using private devices to check.
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  #338  
Old 14.09.2021, 19:02
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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Funny. Not that I ever go there anymore - not in years - but I was wondering about Glatt this afternoon. Do they want a covid passport? Abroad they use it in malls but in Switzerland I've not heard whether it's the same?
Same here. I was almost surprised that place still exists. I havent' been inside in years (although for some reason I'm often changing buses there, but always for a different reason). I always had the impression it was on its last legs and not going to last much longer.

But I understand its been refurbished. Maybe they made it more bearable?
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  #339  
Old 14.09.2021, 19:18
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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Same here. I was almost surprised that place still exists. I havent' been inside in years (although for some reason I'm often changing buses there, but always for a different reason). I always had the impression it was on its last legs and not going to last much longer.

But I understand its been refurbished. Maybe they made it more bearable?
I remember losing a BMW there once. I basically waited until everyone else had gone (I was there in the evening, so not such a long wait) and then it sat there all alone in the middle of a garage-floor.
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  #340  
Old 14.09.2021, 19:51
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Re: Last Day Before Your Freedoms are Limited

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I guess if it is successful it getting the unvaccinated to get vaccinated it will have a small effect - but its overall not a scientifically or epidemiologically justified measure (see Israeli health minister). Its a political measure to exert pressure on the unvaccinated.
They are incrementally pushing up the vaxx rate at the cost of the government gambling away credibility as it shifts from one lie to the next.
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