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Old 24.10.2021, 10:06
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When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

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I’m also unhappy that the official retirement age for women was raised from 63 to 64 recently.
Really? 64 would be welcome!!
There’s all that discussion about raising it to 65 for women born after Dec 31st, 1967, and I’m really really hoping that won’t be voted in.
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Old 24.10.2021, 10:45
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Re: tax for couple with 1 child after marriage

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Really? 64 would be welcome!!
There’s all that discussion about raising it to 65 for women born after Dec 31st, 1967, and I’m really really hoping that won’t be voted in.
I’m afraid it will be voted in but I’m actually for it. You can’t shout for equality and then have different ages of retirement.



This would be a great topic for another thread.

Last edited by olygirl; 24.10.2021 at 12:47.
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Old 24.10.2021, 12:33
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

Taking Olygirl’s cue.. thread split.

Ladies retiring at 64 or 65.. do you prefer 64 or prone equality and agree to 65 ?
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Old 24.10.2021, 12:36
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

Even when I am not affected by this, I still think it should be the same for all.
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Old 24.10.2021, 12:39
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

Same salary,
same opportunities for promotion,
same pension.

Then we can have the same retirement age...
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Old 24.10.2021, 12:59
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

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Same salary,
same opportunities for promotion,
same pension.

Then we can have the same retirement age...
Ditto - once all the above are true, then all for same pension age. But not before.
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Old 24.10.2021, 13:40
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

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Same salary,
same opportunities for promotion,
same pension.

Then we can have the same retirement age...
That's not how this works. If they, too, were using your pseudologic men would say "first remove the women's privileges, then we can talk". For instance the federation spends 10 bln on elderly homes, 70% thereof on women. Women have 50% higher matura quota. Mandatory military. Completely onesided divorce rulings. The list goes on and on and on.

As for the pension:
Women draw 25% more for the same contributions, it's the same problem as with the AHV. If you really want equality you argue for a masive cut for the women, one that's far bigger than that single year.

Now, the imaginary underpay:
It's still a capitalist system, you need to stand up for yourselfes. Tagesanzeiger recently reported (paywall) on a women's coach, the gist is:
"She coaches women - on average, her clients earn 49 per cent more afterwards."

Frankly, this entire issue is ridiculous. Feminists ignore everything that contradicts their position.

There is no discussing with ideologues, first you'd need to acknowledge your own priviledges. But that would refute the nonsensical claims of the imaginary patriarchy, and that can not be.
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Old 24.10.2021, 13:57
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

The average pension of women in Switzerland is just 3000 francs (AHV and BVG - or second pillar). Every fourth woman has only the AHV and no second pillar. Every tenth woman in Switzerland receives supplementary benefits directly after retirement because she does not have enough to live on.

The problem for women and low earners lies in the BVG and not in the AHV.

It is highly questionable, in terms of society as a whole to raise anyone's retirement age. With a view to over-50 unemployment or developments in the context of digitalization, it simply makes no sense to make people work even longer.

A federal study shows that the poor in particular are working longer. Those who can afford it retire at 62. So it's not pension cuts for women - but for poor women.

Women continue to work after retirement - just not in gainful employment. Grandparents spend a full 160 million hours at work tending to their grandchildren. If the retirement age for women is increased, it will close the largest daycare center in Switzerland.

Above are excerpts translated from (paywall) TA article:

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/11-grue...1-806590480005
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Old 24.10.2021, 14:05
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

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The average pension of women in Switzerland is just 3000 francs (AHV and BVG - or second pillar). Every fourth woman has only the AHV and no second pillar. Every tenth woman in Switzerland receives supplementary benefits directly after retirement because she does not have enough to live on.
You completely ignore how men fare. You don't care one bit, as if they didn't even exist. So much for "empathy".

Thanks for the immediate confirmation of my main point. You really couldn't make this up no matter how hard you tried.
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Old 24.10.2021, 14:25
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

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The average pension of women in Switzerland is just 3000 francs (AHV and BVG - or second pillar). Every fourth woman has only the AHV and no second pillar. Every tenth woman in Switzerland receives supplementary benefits directly after retirement because she does not have enough to live on.
For comparison, what are the figures for men?
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Old 24.10.2021, 14:34
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

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For comparison, what are the figures for men?
I believe Urs Max (or others) are better placed to provide information on that point.
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Old 24.10.2021, 14:49
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

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You completely ignore how men fare. You don't care one bit, as if they didn't even exist. So much for "empathy".

Thanks for the immediate confirmation of my main point. You really couldn't make this up no matter how hard you tried.
Why don’t you fill us all in then if you know the answer.
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Old 24.10.2021, 14:54
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

First of all, although retirement will be in more than 20 years, it terrifies me: how will I fill in all that empty time?

Secondly, like other mentioned, I want professional equality, so I really don’t see what would justify women working one year less than men. Yes most of us work double shifts, at work and at home, but that should evolve too!
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Old 24.10.2021, 15:07
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

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First of all, although retirement will be in more than 20 years, it terrifies me: how will I fill in all that empty time?
Looking at hubby, my sister and BIL, they seem almost more busy than ever! Just make sure you have an idea what you want to do?
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Old 24.10.2021, 15:23
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

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Why don’t you fill us all in then if you know the answer.
Why would I, it's not my point. Not that I actually have them.

For one, my main point was immediately confirmed: feminists don't give a toss about men or their plights. In reality they don't even care about equality, the only thing they care about is their own prigileges, AbFab even said so explicitly. You'll be hard pressed to give even a couple examples where feminist talking heads actually argue for the removal of their own privileges, provided they even recognise them: "privilege is invisible to who has it" (common feminist rhetoric that intends to silence opposing voices).

ZR OTOH is arguing for equity, i.e. equality of outcome. Her position is that choices during adulthood can't have consequences during old age, that's why she doesn't even touch on them. It's unthinkable to feminists that women should be accountable for the outcome of their choices, therefore differences at pension age are by definition unjust and must be remedied.

The reality is that we live in a meritocracy. Choices have consequences, some of them decades later. Think before you act.

Last edited by Urs Max; 24.10.2021 at 15:45. Reason: added the 2nd sentence
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Old 24.10.2021, 15:26
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

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I believe Urs Max (or others) are better placed to provide information on that point.
I thought it might be in the same article as behind the paywall.
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Old 24.10.2021, 15:28
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

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First of all, although retirement will be in more than 20 years, it terrifies me: how will I fill in all that empty time?
My husband is 58. He absolutely hates the idea of retiring….he loves what he does and there is no reason he won’t continue to be productive at 65. So he’s developing some ideas. My sister in the US is 62, and hopes to continue to work after 65.

For people in physically demanding jobs, high stress positions, retirement at 65 or even earlier makes sense. But for many people 65 is so arbitrary.

To achieve gender equality there is a lot of structural change required. Where to start?
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Old 24.10.2021, 15:42
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

I retired 2 1/2 years ago at the statutory age of 65. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm busier than before, but I am busy. I do all the things I was half-doing when working, but can dedicate the necessary time for those activities.
I had originally planned lots of travelling, but Covid came along, so I did the travelling to discover Switzerland properly and don't regret it one bit (bought a stack of day-cards).
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Old 24.10.2021, 15:43
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

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First of all, although retirement will be in more than 20 years, it terrifies me: how will I fill in all that empty time?

Secondly, like other mentioned, I want professional equality, so I really don’t see what would justify women working one year less than men. Yes most of us work double shifts, at work and at home, but that should evolve too!
Retired early at 58 last month. Have been preparing for this moment since 3 years, since my first stroke (am sure due to stress in a well paying job that I hated, and which demanded too much for too long). My second job (in parallel) was as a single Mom (and Dad didn’t have the same responsibilities).

Have in the meantime discovered so many passions and interests, go for wonderful (power) walks in the forest with panorama views of the mountains and Zurisee almost daily. Have realized that I’m really happy with my own company. And, next Spring I’m 3 months away on a wonderful Danish Island (took me a while to realize that I could book more than a week or two) in a beautiful rented property directly on the rugged coast. Would have gone sooner if not for the pandemic.

Just ideas…

But, there are also many people who love their work - and that’s great (enviable). And that they would like to continue working is understandable (and perhaps enviable)
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Old 24.10.2021, 15:46
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Re: When 65 is eventually here, you still won’t put your feet up dear..

According to this source, pension gender gap is 37% lower for women - around 20,000/year less on average...
https://www.aramis.admin.ch/Texte/?ProjectID=35409

This is lower than the OECD average of 40%.
The old-age pension gap (Pillar 1) is only 3% - it's the second pillar - occupational pension - where the big gap is - mostly related to role division of married couples (man earns, woman stays home to care for household and children).

key is duration and extent of employment (no surprises there), and until 1995 women could withdraw their pension early when they married (I guess assuming they would invest this into the family home or use it to offset living costs when children were small)...

Highest pension gap = married couples - 47%, divorced and widowed, 28% and single persons - insignificant gap.
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