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  #41  
Old 03.01.2023, 13:16
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

The greatest change I have seen in Switzerland in the past 20 years has been due to the Schengen agreement. France on the other side of the border to Geneva was a quiet sleepy place before it signed up [I lived there, I should know]. Now it is like a suburb of Paris, almost. Houses and big shopping centres everywhere. Finding work in Geneva if you're not French in the meantime has become near impossible. I don't know, but I suspect Zurich, Basel and Ticino have had the same sort of build-up over the border. In the next twenty years I suspect/expect Lausanne to see that sort of infiltration too.

Net, net the French part will become more French, the German part more German, the Italian part more Italian. So Switzerland will become less and less one country and more like suburbs of their neighbours.
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  #42  
Old 03.01.2023, 13:28
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

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I suspect Zurich, Basel and Ticino have had the same sort of build-up over the border. In the next twenty years I suspect/expect Lausanne to see that sort of infiltration too.
Ticino, no. More buildup the Swiss side of the border, and traffic from Italy.

Tom
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  #43  
Old 03.01.2023, 13:37
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

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The greatest change I have seen in Switzerland in the past 20 years has been due to the Schengen agreement. France on the other side of the border to Geneva was a quiet sleepy place before it signed up [I lived there, I should know]. Now it is like a suburb of Paris, almost. Houses and big shopping centres everywhere. Finding work in Geneva if you're not French in the meantime has become near impossible. I don't know, but I suspect Zurich, Basel and Ticino have had the same sort of build-up over the border. In the next twenty years I suspect/expect Lausanne to see that sort of infiltration too.

Net, net the French part will become more French, the German part more German, the Italian part more Italian. So Switzerland will become less and less one country and more like suburbs of their neighbours.
Interesting, but not my perception. And as I heard some German comedian recently say: "You realize you have settled in Switzerland when you start being annoyed by the Germans."
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  #44  
Old 03.01.2023, 15:29
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

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Interesting, but not my perception. And as I heard some German comedian recently say: "You realize you have settled in Switzerland when you start being annoyed by the Germans."
Thinking about this, I also believe it says something about the integrative power of an immigration country when immigrants strive to become citizens and adopt the country's values. For me, Switzerland is such a place, maybe also the United States. I am not so sure about Germany or Sweden for example.

But maybe i am just being naive.
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  #45  
Old 03.01.2023, 15:38
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

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Thinking about this, I also believe it says something about the integrative power of an immigration country when immigrants strive to become citizens and adopt the country's values. For me, Switzerland is such a place, maybe also the United States. I am not so sure about Germany or Sweden for example.

But maybe i am just being naive.
Maybe, maybe not. I would say that Germany is a notch more accepting to migrants and that integration is higher than it is in CH, non the less it would seem that a high percentage of young male migrants simply refuse become integrated.
I think that German and indeed Swiss authorities are used to the citizens doing as they are told. From birth you get drilled to listen to those who have the say. Migrants don’t do that which means that the schism running through society is only going to get wider and wider.

Last edited by slammer; 03.01.2023 at 15:48.
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  #46  
Old 03.01.2023, 15:45
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

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Maybe, maybe not. I would say that Germany is a notch more accepting to migrants and that integration is higher than it is in CH, non the less it would seem that a high percentage of young male migrants simply refuse become integrated.
Yes, the latter part has been very obvious on NYE.
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  #47  
Old 03.01.2023, 15:55
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

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I think that German and indeed Swiss authorities are used to the citizens doing as they are told. From birth you get drilled to listen to those who have the say. Migrants don’t do that which means that the schism running through society is only going to get wider and wider.
I don't see it that way. I believe that successful immigration countries are the ones where immigrants have no choice but to earn their bread themselves by integrating and working. Countries that have generous welfare systems seem to struggle with integration much more. And no is helped by that, not the "natives", not the state and certainly not the immigrants.

Anyhow, did not want to turn this into an immigration debate. I personally am a big fan of the Swiss approach of individual responsibility paired with direct democracy - and as long as Switzerland can maintain this, I think its future will be bright.
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  #48  
Old 03.01.2023, 16:00
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

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Increase all due to immigration - but: a US friend works at Google Zurich. Since the pandemic they work 100% from home, fully approved by Google.

My question was “why can’t you work 100% from your real home?” (USA). The answer was that the Swiss life-style was preferred.

Clearly if Google (and other companies) can avoid the expense of moving personnel to Switzerland, they will let them work 100% in their home country. (Doesn’t apply to the construction industry, but with less white-collar immigration there will be less construction)…

Wouldn't the office based - now work from home brigade rather work from home in the countryside rather than in the city & therefore wouldn't artificially inflated ( due to them having to be based near the office in the past ) mean that city property prices will tumble as they join the exodus to the countryside.
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  #49  
Old 03.01.2023, 16:03
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

I think the 'cultural' future is pretty obvious. Declining birthrates inside the borders will lead to ever-increasing numbers of immigrants chasing higher wages.

This will inevitably lead to more 'cultural' tension particularly between multi-cultural cities and the 'traditional' countryside, especially in terms of English v. French/German (Italian ?)

For the next 20 years as we boomers hang around, this tension will escalate but after that.. if CH is still economically strong.. we should see a variant of a more 'smoothed out' 'pan European' culture.
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Old 03.01.2023, 16:05
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

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"You realize you have settled in Switzerland when you start being annoyed by the Germans."
So, from the moment I first set foot here 40 years ago!

Tom
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  #51  
Old 03.01.2023, 16:08
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

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The greatest change I have seen in Switzerland in the past 20 years has been due to the Schengen agreement. France on the other side of the border to Geneva was a quiet sleepy place before it signed up [I lived there, I should know]. Now it is like a suburb of Paris, almost. Houses and big shopping centres everywhere. Finding work in Geneva if you're not French in the meantime has become near impossible. I don't know, but I suspect Zurich, Basel and Ticino have had the same sort of build-up over the border. In the next twenty years I suspect/expect Lausanne to see that sort of infiltration too.

Net, net the French part will become more French, the German part more German, the Italian part more Italian. So Switzerland will become less and less one country and more like suburbs of their neighbours.
I couldn't agree more.
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  #52  
Old 03.01.2023, 16:49
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

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Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose …
Well that made me smile. I used to go to Nyon to stay with my godparents in the 50s and 60s. Nyon was just one small town with no modern blocks of flats or suburbs- and Eysins where they lived was just a few farms. The whole Riviera from Lausanne to Geneva was vineyards with small medieval villages dotted around. No industry, no shopping centres... absolutely NO comparison to the reality now. My godfather was the Manager of the brand new Placette shop, which was supposed to be THE best place to shop in the region. lol.
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Old 03.01.2023, 17:00
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

aren't we all supposed to die from global warming?
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  #54  
Old 03.01.2023, 17:41
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

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aren't we all supposed to die from global warming?
Don’t worry, we‘ll get to that later.
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Old 03.01.2023, 18:53
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

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Well that made me smile. I used to go to Nyon to stay with my godparents in the 50s and 60s. Nyon was just one small town with no modern blocks of flats or suburbs- and Eysins where they lived was just a few farms. The whole Riviera from Lausanne to Geneva was vineyards with small medieval villages dotted around. No industry, no shopping centres... absolutely NO comparison to the reality now. My godfather was the Manager of the brand new Placette shop, which was supposed to be THE best place to shop in the region. lol.
Wasn't Nemesis from 'The Champions' based in Geneva back in the 1960's ?, who's office was next door to Geneva's iconic jet d'Eau water fountain.
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  #56  
Old 03.01.2023, 20:35
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

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Wasn't Nemesis from 'The Champions' based in Geneva back in the 1960's ?, who's office was next door to Geneva's iconic jet d'Eau water fountain.
Yes... and yes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgVu...redproductions
I had such a kiddy crush on Alexandra Bastedo
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Old 03.01.2023, 21:11
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Re: What is the future of Switzerland?

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Wasn't Nemesis from 'The Champions' based in Geneva back in the 1960's ?, who's office was next door to Geneva's iconic jet d'Eau water fountain.
No idea- I lived in the mountains and never ventured as far as wild, dangerous Geneva
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