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  #101  
Old 19.06.2022, 08:06
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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One wants to return. The other says she intends to remain.

Explained that to them, but they won't do it.. It's a shame. If they'd taken the courses offered, they could have picked up enough German to work in bars etc. They're not my kids, I can't make them!
Yeah, wants to return where....I don't think this is a wise decision but as you say, they're not kids. I feel extremely sorry for them and I won't judge. I thank God we personally have never been in such a situation. My gut feeling is that many of them need psychological counselling and need to accept the reality, that this war may last more than we can anticipate and even if it will soon end, for some of them there's not much left to go back to, so that might take a while...meanwhile building a life here could help with the healing. Because it is a tremendous trauma.
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what do you mean by 'they need to set themselves up independently'? Just wondering.
It's pretty obvious, I think, that at the end of these 6 months they won't be able to live at Nat's. His gesture was more than kind anyway but he's got a family of his own too and even with your own kids, you want them to be independent and happily live outside the "nest" one day..

Last edited by greenmount; 19.06.2022 at 08:25.
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  #102  
Old 19.06.2022, 09:16
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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Just chatting with our guests. They were told we'd committed to six months. We were told three...

I'd just explained to them, as we're at the end of three months, that we committed to three, and we can do another three, but they need to set themselves up independently.
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I've had a very similar conversation with my guest as well. I said at the start that 3 months was no problem, however after that I'd like to see them become more Independent.
Did you, with or without the Schweizer Flüchtlingshilfe, not have a written agreement?
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  #103  
Old 19.06.2022, 09:29
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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what do you mean by 'they need to set themselves up independently'? Just wondering.
I took it to mean: earn enough at least to cover all their expenses and go about their activities without input or need of support by the host, and this with a view to earning enough to move out and stand on their own feet, financially and organisationally.
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  #104  
Old 19.06.2022, 09:34
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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Ours refuse to learn German. They asked - is it a problem for you if we don't learn German. No, I said, it's a problem for you.

Also, they've just learned that if they earn ~2000 francs a month, they don't get any social help anymore. Which they feel is a disincentive to work. For me, if I were on social, I'd always work, even if each 100 francs I earn (after 400) reduces my social income by 400. Work leads to better things. Social doesn't.
Although I agree with you about wanting to work to need each 100 less, unfortunately, not all Social Services work with a nice, linear progression of incentives. In oder words, earning over that limit (you say 400) can suddenly tip one over into no longer qualifying for several types of help: the monthly rent, medical insurance, help with the franchise and co-pay of medical services, basic dentistry, glasses, certain school costs, and that small monthly allowance per person. And they would need to earn quite a lot more to be able to cover all those expenses themselves.

Having said that, the way it is calculated is probably not even cantonal but municipal, so could be handled different in each area.

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Just do not understand their attitude, and I can well imagine it would 'grate' on you, the host.

The ones I've met have all been desperate to learn French, and to find jobs.
Oh, yes, it would definitely get on my nerves, too! However, people react to trauma differently. Some fall into denial (no need to learn German, I'll home by Christmas) or into a paralysing sense of helplessness, hopelessness and lethargy (so much awful has happened to me, done by others who are more powerful and who decided my fate, that I fell overwhelmed and small, and nothing I could do could make it right, anyway). Watching traumatised people flounder and hesitate can be heartbreaking and frustrating.
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  #105  
Old 20.06.2022, 06:33
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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Did you, with or without the Schweizer Flüchtlingshilfe, not have a written agreement?
No written agreement on my side. We discussed it and have discussed it again recently.
I'm hoping my casual approach to this doesn't come back to bite me.

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I have seen a couple of Ukrainian advertisements on babysitting24.ch and homeservice24.ch but not many. Not sure how many are aware of similar websites but may be useful to some given the S residence permit...
Thank you for the suggestions. I can safely state that my guest has no intention of babysitting or homeservice. They are still looking to land a top job in Finance.
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  #106  
Old 20.06.2022, 09:12
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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...It's pretty obvious, I think, that at the end of these 6 months they won't be able to live at Nat's.
Exactly this. Although if, for example, they find an apartment that's only available until November, we wouldn't kick them out.

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Did you, with or without the Schweizer Flüchtlingshilfe, not have a written agreement?
With SF but no written agreement. I know were supposed to have one.

Our guests have already spoken with the social worker (who speaks Russian! ) about finding their own place.
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  #107  
Old 21.06.2022, 10:35
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

My Ukrainian family is very motivated in learning German. This is good at least. However, I am not hearing any interest from them in getting employment.



To learn a language you need at least 1 year. Waiting until you learn language before you get employment is not very practical.
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  #108  
Old 21.06.2022, 10:40
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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Exactly this. Although if, for example, they find an apartment that's only available until November, we wouldn't kick them out.
Thanks for answering. So you mean asap, but not necessarily now at the end of 3 months. Respect for what you have done and are doing still.
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  #109  
Old 21.06.2022, 14:52
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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Thank you for the suggestions. I can safely state that my guest has no intention of babysitting or homeservice. They are still looking to land a top job in Finance.

Ato, Im not sure that is possible as my ukranians will land the top job in Finance - seriously though same problem here.



In terms of what is being discussed on the thread the hosting for 3 months or 6months, signed contract etc. We have signed up for 6 months, but post that point I dont see how the gemeinde, campex or redcross are taking over. They are overwhelmed. The only option they can present - I think - is another host family for 6 months. So the conversation NAT referred to is necessary. We will not tell them to leave 1 day after 6 months but they do need to start actively planning for what to do if they cannot get a flat etc.


In their defence, I think it is hard for them to identify what is due to them vs. what they need to plan for. For example getting s-status, financial aid, placement in our home, German lessons, weekly groceries, schooling, all came albeit at different rates. For them, a problem with viewing flats, they believe will be easily solved by the Gemeinde or Redcross and just "wait it out", just like the delay with the s-status and the beginning. Here (I think) we need to intervene and guide them to try outside of our Gemeinde or even CH, if it doesnt work out. That finding homes here and jobs here isnt trivial. This is the hard part of this experience, where to intervene, where to just support and where to draw the line.
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  #110  
Old 21.06.2022, 16:06
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

Once the refugee is registered with a canton, they must stay in that canton.

One surprise for them was that they have to pay the TV/Radio tax, Serafe. Some communities refund them the cost of this.
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  #111  
Old 21.06.2022, 16:35
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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My Ukrainian family is very motivated in learning German. This is good at least. However, I am not hearing any interest from them in getting employment.



To learn a language you need at least 1 year. Waiting until you learn language before you get employment is not very practical.
Actually I think 6 months enough if you are committed. If you are a quick learner and really committed 3-4 months would do it. Not doable though if you have other commitments...
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  #112  
Old 21.06.2022, 17:36
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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Actually I think 6 months enough if you are committed. If you are a quick learner and really committed 3-4 months would do it. Not doable though if you have other commitments...
Realistically speaking in 6 months you can only reach a certain level (probably around B1 tops) even if truly committed and for certain jobs you definitely need more than that. Keep in mind we are talking about people of different ages and language abilities (and yes, that is a factor too because I know of people who couldn't learn German even after living here for decades, or if they did, their German is still pretty basic)
We are not talking about how long did it take to each of us to get somewhere with the German language.
There are jobs for which knowing the local language is not that important but then you also need other skills, yes, even for the much despised and underrated manual work.
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  #113  
Old 21.06.2022, 17:59
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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Actually I think 6 months enough if you are committed. If you are a quick learner and really committed 3-4 months would do it. Not doable though if you have other commitments...
Agreed, not talking here about grammatical perfection- but effective communication can be achieved, if determined.
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  #114  
Old 21.06.2022, 18:05
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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Realistically speaking in 6 months you can only reach a certain level (probably around B1 tops) even if truly committed and for certain jobs you definitely need more than that. Keep in mind we are talking about people of different ages and language abilities (and yes, that is a factor too because I know of people who couldn't learn German even after living here for decades, or if they did, their German is still pretty basic)
We are not talking about how long did it take to each of us to get somewhere with the German language.
Of course it will depend on person's skills and commitment. But my husband did reach German B1 from A1 in 2 months while also working full time in his 30s and got close to 100% on Goethe test. He would have needed more practical exercise for active talk but that was not something he was aiming at anyways and one can add different studying methods. He wanted to pass the exam and put a goal in front of himself.

Many people do need a year, I agree. But that is definitely not full-time studying a language. Many things are involved: previous learning experience, resources, commitment, psychological well-being (which may be especially difficult for refugees), etc.

My point and reason to write is that if someone does not expect to learn faster it is very difficult to get into a mindset needed for faster learning. There are also many people speaking a big number of languages (7+ languages - I know personally 2 such persons and they are really fluent in the ones I also know). They could not learn so many languages if quicker learning was not possible.
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  #115  
Old 21.06.2022, 18:07
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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Agreed, not talking here about grammatical perfection- but effective communication can be achieved, if determined.
I've seen factory and other low-level jobs jobs aimed at Ukrainians with A1 level German - and at-work language lessons!
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  #116  
Old 21.06.2022, 18:13
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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My point and reason to write is that if someone does not expect to learn faster it is very difficult to get into a mindset needed for faster learning. There are also many people speaking a big number of languages (7+ languages - I know personally 2 such persons and they are really fluent in the ones I also know). They could not learn so many languages if quicker learning was not possible.
I personally think Ukrainians would learn really fast languages like Polish, Czech etc. regardless of their language abilities because it is much easier to learn a language related to your native one or one that you heard it spoken around since childhood. I am not talking about polyglots, obvs. Quick learning is achievable by all, I agree, but only up to a certain level.
Some of them still have unrealistic expectations from the job market and they aim at positions that would normally require a very good level of the local language(s), written and spoken. If you're going to be interviewed in German and not in English, it doesn't really matter you have a language certificate.
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  #117  
Old 21.06.2022, 18:26
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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I personally think Ukrainians would learn really fast languages like Polish, Czech etc. regardless of their language abilities because it is much easier to learn a language related to your native one or one that you heard it spoken around since childhood. I am not talking about polyglots, obvs. Quick learning is achievable by all, I agree, but only up to a certain level.
Some of them still have unrealistic expectations from the job market and they aim at positions that would normally require a very good level of the local language(s), written and spoken. If you're going to be interviewed in German and not in English, it doesn't really matter you have a language certificate.

Well my Ukrainians don't speak English either, which worries me about how fast they can learn German.
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  #118  
Old 22.06.2022, 08:44
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

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I've seen factory and other low-level jobs jobs aimed at Ukrainians with A1 level German - and at-work language lessons!



NAT - could you share these with us? We are searching for these and not finding them. My ukranian family had seen some advertised from Ukraine (for Nestlé and Coke) but when they came here could find the jobs advertised locally.
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  #119  
Old 22.06.2022, 10:43
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

They're probably long gone and they were in the Basel Area. But the web site is here:

https://beeworx.ch/
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  #120  
Old 22.06.2022, 12:51
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Re: Ukraine Refugees already in Switzerland: Practical Tips

Many people think bar work is easy, but it is actually very difficult language wise and with change, etc.
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