Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 05.08.2022, 13:31
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 13,099
Groaned at 102 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 20,130 Times in 8,913 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
and put his feet up against (but not on) the seat opposite him
Up to the seat is in no way better than on the seat.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #82  
Old 05.08.2022, 14:35
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 15,243
Groaned at 312 Times in 268 Posts
Thanked 23,643 Times in 9,616 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
And here I was thinking this post was a perfect example of how much this site has improved - people used to be much more harsh.
The mean people clearly have aircon. It's far too hot to be mean!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #83  
Old 05.08.2022, 14:42
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bern
Posts: 2,348
Groaned at 441 Times in 284 Posts
Thanked 4,910 Times in 1,779 Posts
Susie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond repute
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
The mean people clearly have aircon. It's far too hot to be mean!
hehe maybe - heat makes me beyond grumpy.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 05.08.2022, 14:57
venetian's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Zuerich
Posts: 704
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 848 Times in 401 Posts
venetian has a reputation beyond reputevenetian has a reputation beyond reputevenetian has a reputation beyond reputevenetian has a reputation beyond repute
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
@OP, while I understand your frustration, it's important to realize that you cannot board a delayed tram or train even if it falls within the validity span of your ticket.
Mmm... are you sure? In zone-based systems there is no distinction between individual trams or trains, as long as you stay within the zone and the time limit. There is no way for anyone to know if a tram is "the right one" or the previous one with a delay.
(Main exception: train tickets bought at discounted price, they are bound to a specific train).

General rule: tickets must be valid when you board the first vehicle and when you leave the last vehicle of your journey. Every station, stop or vehicle has an official clock and the time validity is stated on tickets.

As far as we could reconstruct, the OP boarded a tram before the beginning of the validity of his ticket. Does not matter which tram it was, or if it was late, the main point is that he was controlled a couple of minutes before the beginning of the ticket validity.
It can happen easily if you buy a tram+train ticket with the SBB app, the app calculates the last useful tram to catch the train and decides the beginning of the ticket validity. If you go to the tram stop earlier than that, e.g. because you want a longer pause at the station to buy something, your ticket won't be valid.

I was fined a couple of times for tickets bought in advance which were not perfectly matching my actual journey... since then I try to mostly use daily passes, for single zones or for the entire country.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank venetian for this useful post:
  #85  
Old 05.08.2022, 15:11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Schlieren
Posts: 49
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts
ItalianInZuri has earned some respectItalianInZuri has earned some respect
Re: an unpleasant experience..

I know from an acquaintance that you will be fined if you board a delayed tram after 9:00 with a ZVV 9 Uhr pass, if the tram would have arrived before 9:00 with no delays.
But I don't know if the rule is more general or in fact still in force. Please make your own research.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 05.08.2022, 15:29
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is online now
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 4,437
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 6,221 Times in 2,926 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
I know from an acquaintance that you will be fined if you board a delayed tram after 9:00 with a ZVV 9 Uhr pass, if the tram would have arrived before 9:00 with no delays.
But I don't know if the rule is more general or in fact still in force. Please make your own research.
But, how can one know if the tram coming it's the 8h50 or the 9h00 one? Trams don't identify themselves
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #87  
Old 05.08.2022, 17:55
venetian's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Zuerich
Posts: 704
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 848 Times in 401 Posts
venetian has a reputation beyond reputevenetian has a reputation beyond reputevenetian has a reputation beyond reputevenetian has a reputation beyond repute
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
I know from an acquaintance that you will be fined if you board a delayed tram after 9:00 with a ZVV 9 Uhr pass, if the tram would have arrived before 9:00 with no delays.
You don't get fined because you board a delayed tram, you get fined if you board a tram before 9 o' clock with a 9 Uhr pass, or if the inspectors believe that you did so.
The time validity of the ticket is for you, not for the vehicles you take

Also... inspectors in Zürich get onboard and start controlling people, then stay for a few stops and control everybody boarding. So the way to get a ticket is to be checked when they get onboard or when you get onboard; in both cases the current time is compared to the ticket time, they don't ask when or where someone boarded (and yes, I used 9 Uhr passes before). Something more should have happened in your case, there is no rule on delayed buses or trams.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 05.08.2022, 18:31
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 13,099
Groaned at 102 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 20,130 Times in 8,913 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
I know from an acquaintance that you will be fined if you board a delayed tram after 9:00 with a ZVV 9 Uhr pass, if the tram would have arrived before 9:00 with no delays.
But I don't know if the rule is more general or in fact still in force. Please make your own research.
It was like this in the past, but this is explicitly no longer the case for around maybe 10 years (!).

Quote:
3.8.3 9-Uhr-Tagespässe und abgestempelte Felder der Multikarte 9-Uhr Tagespass gelten am Ausgabetag bzw. Entwertungstag wie folgt:
- Montag bis Freitag ab 09:00 Uhr (massgebend ist die effektive Abfahrtszeit, nicht die Fahrplanzeit) bis 05:00 des Folgetages.
- Samstag, Sonntag und allgemeine Feiertage gemäss Ziffer 3.8.10 ohne zeitliche Einschränkung.
There was a particular connection at Fehraltdorf, which always left after 9:00 but on according the time table should have left at 8:59. People got really upset as the scam was obvious. https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/fehralt...z-358000384118
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 05.08.2022, 19:56
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 10,017
Groaned at 579 Times in 419 Posts
Thanked 13,462 Times in 6,997 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
It was like this in the past, but this is explicitly no longer the case for around maybe 10 years (!).
Which makes it a recent change
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #90  
Old 06.08.2022, 16:16
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,698
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,225 Times in 672 Posts
axman has a reputation beyond reputeaxman has a reputation beyond reputeaxman has a reputation beyond reputeaxman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: an unpleasant experience..

One can understand that one must have a ticket for the time period of the trip. People jumping into a tram at 8.55am with a ticket that is valid for 1 hour from 9am are therefore illegally “extending” the validity of their ticket by 5 minutes.

On the other hand, the most absurd and unfair rule has to be that you must have the correct ticket for your trip, even if you’ve paid more for the wrong ticket.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank axman for this useful post:
  #91  
Old 06.08.2022, 16:53
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Zug
Posts: 247
Groaned at 24 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 175 Times in 99 Posts
Xenophanes is considered knowledgeableXenophanes is considered knowledgeableXenophanes is considered knowledgeable
Re: an unpleasant experience..

i was recently obliged to pop into Zurich, and on boarding the tram for one stop to the HB, was nabbed by the inspectors.

Literally while boarding I'd bought my ticket for the journey all the way back to the lovely Innerschwiiz. But because the inspectors deemed this timestamp to be after the tram's departure, I was stung for 90 Stutz.

Hey-ho, will be more careful next time. Didn't do anything as daft as call the fuzz. Just paid my fine and moved on.

That said, the hair-splitting Rennweg tram-rozzers do seem to be over-keen. It felt a little like a hussle. Ah well ... what else can you expect in Zurich?
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 06.08.2022, 17:44
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 13,099
Groaned at 102 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 20,130 Times in 8,913 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
Literally while boarding I'd bought my ticket for the journey all the way back to the lovely Innerschwiiz. But because the inspectors deemed this timestamp to be after the tram's departure, I was stung for 90 Stutz.
This is no secret and "well know". T600, Chapter 3.1.4.
[quote]
Die Kundinnen und Kunden müssen vor Antritt der Reise (tatsächliche Abfahrt des Kurses) im Besitz des E-Tickets sein. Der Kauf- und Bestellvorgang, resp. der Bezug der Fahrtberechtigung (Check-in) muss vor der tatsächlichen Abfahrt des Kurses vollständig abgeschlossen sein. Anderenfalls haben die Kundinnen und Kunden den Zuschlag gemäss Ziffer 12.7 zu bezahlen.

Customers must be in possession of the e-ticket before the start of the journey (actual departure of the course). The purchase and ordering process, or the receipt of the travel authorization (check-in) must be completed in full before the actual departure of the course. Otherwise, customers must pay the surcharge in accordance with section 12.7.
[quote]

I repeat: Only board the vehicle once your purchase is successful and not a single second earlier.
__________________
What?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #93  
Old 06.08.2022, 20:10
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Zug
Posts: 247
Groaned at 24 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 175 Times in 99 Posts
Xenophanes is considered knowledgeableXenophanes is considered knowledgeableXenophanes is considered knowledgeable
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
I repeat: Only board the vehicle once your purchase is successful and not a single second earlier.
Jawohl!

And also folks watch out for the Rennweg tram razzia. They're after yer chuffs!
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 06.08.2022, 23:24
MsWorWoo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Winti
Posts: 1,968
Groaned at 60 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 3,243 Times in 1,211 Posts
MsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
Hi all,

I had the most upsetting experience in Switzerland today which I wanted to share with you all so that I can get some opinion without being judged.
After a nice dip in the lake after work, I've walked to the HB tram station to get back home. I purchased the ticket through the app. My tram turned up and I got on. Unfortunately I didn't realise the tram before mine was slightly delayed and it wasn't actually the one I booked the ticket for.

In the next station, quite a few men with uniforms walked into the tram and started inspecting tickets (this is when I realised mine was the next one which was due to arrive in 3 minutes). I was requested to get off the tram and pay a 100 CHF fine. I tried to argue that I wasn't trying to dodge the system and it was a geniune situation. They were far from sympathetic and didn't listen to me at all. They also didn't speak English well and simply thought I was just objecting as opposed to understanding the situation.

Due to their behaviour, I was desperate for some help and decided to call the police (which might have been a mistake). The police turned up, had a chat with the guy who fined me and started talking to me really agresivelly. I tried to tone him down and but had absolutely zero luck.

Basically I had to be let go not knowing what's going to happen next. They have taken all my details. I had to go home with teary eyes not being able to explain myself. I felt completely helpless. I felt like the lack of sympathy was down to my poor German skills and trying to speak English the whole time.
I know 3 minutes doesn't make a difference and it still makes my ticket invalid but my problem is completely the attitude and they way I was treated.

Has anyone had a similar experience? If yes, do you think complaining somewhere will help?

I feel so upset right now to the point I'm considering leaving Switzerland immediately.

Thank you!
Yes, I looked up my journey on the SBB app, and bought a ticket, then, on the train the inspector explained that I had a too early train (as the ticket is for that specific journey’s start time. I was confused, embarrassed and apologetic so she said she would let me go this time but to be aware in the future.
I think attitude has a lot to do with these things. When you are in the wrong, be contrite.

Quote:
View Post
Not actually true - or at least not in all cases.

I had one occasion when a Junior card had expired (so my son was travelling without a ticket) and the ticket inspector just told me not to worry and buy a new card when we got off the train at our destination.
Exact same thing happened to me once too, I was mortified and severely apologetic, and she let me off with a warning.

Quote:
View Post
Try using the Fairtiq app.
This , or something identical, is on the SBB app, and, after the above incident, I used it for a couple of months whilst waiting for my 110 pass to expire and buy a ZVV all zones, it is fantastic, even sending me reminders that I have forgotten to end my journey when I am halfway through my pint on my sofa. Very fair, it started giving me the ‘multi-ticket’ journey discount after my 5th journey.
Highly recommend.

Also, highly recommend not being overly defensive when you are in the wrong, but being contrite, apologetic, and nice to people who are, after all, just doing their job.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank MsWorWoo for this useful post:
  #95  
Old Yesterday, 11:37
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,082
Groaned at 131 Times in 65 Posts
Thanked 582 Times in 306 Posts
markalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputation
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
Hi all,

I had the most upsetting experience in Switzerland today which I wanted to share with you all so that I can get some opinion without being judged.
After a nice dip in the lake after work, I've walked to the HB tram station to get back home. I purchased the ticket through the app. My tram turned up and I got on. Unfortunately I didn't realise the tram before mine was slightly delayed and it wasn't actually the one I booked the ticket for.

In the next station, quite a few men with uniforms walked into the tram and started inspecting tickets (this is when I realised mine was the next one which was due to arrive in 3 minutes). I was requested to get off the tram and pay a 100 CHF fine.
Thank you!
I am guessing there was a different price for the ticket and you choose. You then got on the tram with the wrong ticket. So you don't really have a leg to stand on. Some other examples with trains, same difference for you to keep in mind for next time.

If you buy a ticket from Montreux to Lausanne and then miss your stop; then you will pay a fine if caught..

If you buy an off peak ticket and then get on the train at peak times; then you will pay a fine if caught.

If you buy a ticket to travel at a specific time, but then get an earlier/later one; then you will pay a fine if caught [your case it seems]

If you buy a ticket at half price, but don't have a half price card; then you will pay a fine if caught..

If you get a student/young person discount on a ticket; but you are not a student/young enough; then you'll pay a fine if caught..

But be aware most of these examples also apply to public transport in other parts of the world too; indeed I think its worse in the UK, where tickets error shall we call them can cost you a fine of 250 pounds + the cost of the ticket you evaded [in the transport company's eyes] in the first place.

Last edited by markalex; Yesterday at 11:58.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank markalex for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at markalex for this post:
  #96  
Old Yesterday, 12:54
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,707
Groaned at 2,625 Times in 1,868 Posts
Thanked 39,822 Times in 18,782 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
I am guessing there was a different price for the ticket and you choose.
WRONG!

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #97  
Old Yesterday, 13:21
Hausamsee's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lucerne
Posts: 753
Groaned at 111 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 989 Times in 440 Posts
Hausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond repute
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
I am guessing there was a different price for the ticket and you choose. You then got on the tram with the wrong ticket. So you don't really have a leg to stand on. Some other examples with trains, same difference for you to keep in mind for next time.

If you buy a ticket from Montreux to Lausanne and then miss your stop; then you will pay a fine if caught..

If you buy an off peak ticket and then get on the train at peak times; then you will pay a fine if caught.

If you buy a ticket to travel at a specific time, but then get an earlier/later one; then you will pay a fine if caught [your case it seems]

If you buy a ticket at half price, but don't have a half price card; then you will pay a fine if caught..

If you get a student/young person discount on a ticket; but you are not a student/young enough; then you'll pay a fine if caught..

But be aware most of these examples also apply to public transport in other parts of the world too; indeed I think its worse in the UK, where tickets error shall we call them can cost you a fine of 250 pounds + the cost of the ticket you evaded [in the transport company's eyes] in the first place.
Thanks for the comments, just wondered how long you’ve lived here to find out all that?

Whatever anyone says, it’s pretty annoying what happened to the OP. Living here as long as I have (though I don’t travel much on Public transport), many public transport workers (inspectors) and the like shouldn’t be so far up their backsides with their lack of empathy and strict non-flexibility, even making you feel that you are at their mercy when they let you off. At the end of the day they are just employees themselves and if they have an attitude its their making as most companies and organisations are flexible and understanding.

I have a list of ‘employees’ who have been rude with me with whom I have complained about (traffic wardens, inspectors, rail workers, etc) and I know this complaint would have affected them as I was never rude or obtusive, just annoyed and thorough with the complaint including identifying them.

It makes me feel so much better that I can do I that and if new to the country how daunting and depressing it can be, being pro-active changed my whole perspective and being confrontational is not the way to go as the OP wasn’t but did feel the need to call the police. Maybe that was a bit too far but we are not her/him so why judge, the stress the OP was under was not necessary as now we understand that it could have been the (stupid strict) systems fault for not allowing for delays.



Last edited by Hausamsee; Yesterday at 14:29.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old Today, 08:08
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,082
Groaned at 131 Times in 65 Posts
Thanked 582 Times in 306 Posts
markalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputation
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
WRONG!

Tom
Tom,

Thanks for your useful input to the discussion.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank markalex for this useful post:
  #99  
Old Today, 14:28
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 82
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 63 Times in 38 Posts
koahiatamadl has earned some respectkoahiatamadl has earned some respect
Re: an unpleasant experience..

Quote:
View Post
…just wondered how long you’ve lived here to find out all that?…
Every single public transport tariff structure I’ve ever come across (various countries/municipalities/networks) had specific rules about peak times, discounts, distances, validity etc. While they differ in each network nobody should be surprised they exist.

What they all had in common was that you had to be able to produce a valid ticket for the journey you were on when asked.

What they also all had in common was that ignorance of the rules does not protect you from the consequences of getting it wrong.

Yes, the rules are often confusing and it is very annoying if you get caught making an honest mistake. But you will never entice a ticket inspector or other official to use their discretion by calling the police. Using discretion is just that, discretionary. Some are helpful and some aren’t. And yes, communication is much more difficult if you don’t speak the language. So sure, honest mistakes happen and the Swiss are sticklers for rules….but getting fined for not having a valid ticket for your journey should not be a surprise or traumatising.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank koahiatamadl for this useful post:
  #100  
Old Today, 16:11
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,698
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,225 Times in 672 Posts
axman has a reputation beyond reputeaxman has a reputation beyond reputeaxman has a reputation beyond reputeaxman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: an unpleasant experience..

I think we can all agree that you must have a valid ticket to travel.

The problem I see with the SBB and ZVV apps is that you can easily be led into boarding a tram illegally.

So you look up the timetable, and marvel at the ease of which the app shows you the next tram, and then it entices you to click on "buy ticket". All so simple.

You turn up at the tramstop 5 minutes early, of course, not wishing to miss your tram. Then a tram turns up a few minutes later... and next thing you know you are caught taking a delayed tram 2 minutes before the validity of your ticket. They need to do something to stop so many people making this mistake .... They could just add the option "ticket for immediate travel" right next to "ticket valid from 3.16pm" on the order overview page.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank axman for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
koahiatamadl
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Unpleasant handover BBUCOK Housing in general 20 03.07.2020 15:15
Unpleasant private sales... Treverus Complaints corner 19 10.05.2016 09:26
A slightly unpleasant Geneva anecdote HIAO Daily life 15 19.06.2014 15:12
Restaurant Fu tao Wettingen: Rude and Unpleasant experience Maria Complaints corner 103 10.04.2014 22:18
Unprofessional and unpleasant swiss doctors ilovemiami Complaints corner 133 17.12.2012 20:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0