Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 17.01.2023, 11:09
user137's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 819
Groaned at 20 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 498 Times in 318 Posts
user137 has an excellent reputationuser137 has an excellent reputationuser137 has an excellent reputationuser137 has an excellent reputation
Debt claim / collection against a private person

A friend has got his windshield damaged by a Swiss person (trying to load a bulky item in the front seat that went unlucky). Regularly this is a quick 3rd party liability issue, but the guy is trying to do nothing at all and comes up with stupid excuses like "the insurance companies need to sort this out" and that "friend's insurance will need to send a letter stating the damage isn't covered". He didn't even open the case with his insurance company. I'm trying to help, also bridging the language gap between the 2 parties.

Friend has no insurance on glass damage, and is desperately needing his car as he has a family with 3 kids. Worse, he has no legal insurance either, being new to Switzerland (UA refugee).

He has sent a registered letter to the guy asking to pay the damages (including the offer from the glass repair shop). Letter was not picked up by the guy so it came back.

I'm trying to see what Step2 in this process is, before we turn him into the debt registry (Betreibungsamt).
He needs to be threatened to move, otherwise he's gonna pick the easiest route which is not doing anything.

My thoughts:
- ask the insurance of the guy (Mobiliar) to see if he as claimant can do anything
- send the same letter again as not registered with a deadline for reaction and a threat of legal action
- ask (nudge) the guy via phone / SMS about the case ID with Mobiliar (to make sure this is progressing)
- send an SMS that the situation will be escalated to legal matters unless he responds
- ..... ???
- profit (or collection process)

Is that process correct?
Can anyone else, like local police help in this process?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 17.01.2023, 17:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 11,007
Groaned at 737 Times in 543 Posts
Thanked 15,085 Times in 7,927 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

What happened actually?

Your friend A (owner of the piece and the car) plus helper B loading something together on the front seat of A's car, and somehow that got the windshield cracked? So both were directly participating?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 17.01.2023, 17:06
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 9,216
Groaned at 400 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 14,110 Times in 4,844 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

Tell your friend to get the windscreen repaired/replaced. What are we talking about here? CHF400-800?

Your pal should then send the bill to his clumsy friend...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 17.01.2023, 17:28
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is online now
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 6,326
Groaned at 124 Times in 113 Posts
Thanked 9,393 Times in 4,432 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

Is the damage repairable? If it's just a small dent, there's a literal glue to avoid that the dent becomes a large crck.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17.01.2023, 18:05
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 6,248
Groaned at 410 Times in 294 Posts
Thanked 10,364 Times in 4,508 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

Quote:
View Post
A friend has got his windshield damaged by a Swiss person (trying to load a bulky item in the front seat that went unlucky). Regularly this is a quick 3rd party liability issue, but the guy is trying to do nothing at all and comes up with stupid excuses like "the insurance companies need to sort this out" and that "friend's insurance will need to send a letter stating the damage isn't covered". He didn't even open the case with his insurance company. I'm trying to help, also bridging the language gap between the 2 parties.

Friend has no insurance on glass damage, and is desperately needing his car as he has a family with 3 kids. Worse, he has no legal insurance either, being new to Switzerland (UA refugee).

He has sent a registered letter to the guy asking to pay the damages (including the offer from the glass repair shop). Letter was not picked up by the guy so it came back.

I'm trying to see what Step2 in this process is, before we turn him into the debt registry (Betreibungsamt).
He needs to be threatened to move, otherwise he's gonna pick the easiest route which is not doing anything.

My thoughts:
- ask the insurance of the guy (Mobiliar) to see if he as claimant can do anything
- send the same letter again as not registered with a deadline for reaction and a threat of legal action
- ask (nudge) the guy via phone / SMS about the case ID with Mobiliar (to make sure this is progressing)
- send an SMS that the situation will be escalated to legal matters unless he responds
- ..... ???
- profit (or collection process)

Is that process correct?
Can anyone else, like local police help in this process?
No. First of all your friend was involved in causing the damage, so there is a shared liability issue to be decide upon....

And the changes are good that the Swiss guy is right, your friend needs to make a claim against his insurance company for the damage caused by a third party and then it is up to insurance companies to sort out who pays what.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 17.01.2023, 18:28
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 14,001
Groaned at 111 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 21,898 Times in 9,607 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

I disagree with Jim2007 on all counts.

If you want to claim damages in this case you would have to claim directly against the person. You can only go against a car insurance.

A registered letter which is not collected is considered as delivered. Keep it and all the relevant post documents in a safe place (print out the non delivery note from the website). Do not open the letter.

Next step would be pursuit/Betreibung. However, Urs raises a very important question:

Quote:
View Post
Your friend A (owner of the piece and the car) plus helper B loading something together on the front seat of A's car, and somehow that got the windshield cracked? So both were directly participating?
If this is the case it would be a Gefälligkeit and liability of helper B is limited, reduced to zero. I could even be, as the other party got some good advice from their own legal insurance: Admit nothing, stop communication, and wait for poursuit/Betreibung which might never come.
__________________
All my posts are are under CC BY-SA 4.0 DEED Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 17.01.2023, 19:11
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2,129
Groaned at 272 Times in 180 Posts
Thanked 2,619 Times in 1,256 Posts
Biro has a reputation beyond reputeBiro has a reputation beyond reputeBiro has a reputation beyond reputeBiro has a reputation beyond reputeBiro has a reputation beyond reputeBiro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

...all assuming he actually does have insurance being a Ukrainian displaced person
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 17.01.2023, 19:24
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 14,001
Groaned at 111 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 21,898 Times in 9,607 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

Quote:
View Post
...all assuming he actually does have insurance being a Ukrainian displaced person
Why does an Ukrainian need an insurance, when a Swiss damages the Ukrainian's property?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 17.01.2023, 19:50
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2,129
Groaned at 272 Times in 180 Posts
Thanked 2,619 Times in 1,256 Posts
Biro has a reputation beyond reputeBiro has a reputation beyond reputeBiro has a reputation beyond reputeBiro has a reputation beyond reputeBiro has a reputation beyond reputeBiro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

Quote:
View Post
Why does an Ukrainian need an insurance, when a Swiss damages the Ukrainian's property?
True, i misread original post !
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 17.01.2023, 21:48
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,882
Groaned at 287 Times in 196 Posts
Thanked 11,342 Times in 4,568 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

Quote:
View Post
Is the damage repairable? If it's just a small dent, there's a literal glue to avoid that the dent becomes a large crck.
Cant use it in all areas of a windscreen, as I recently found out. Anything in your field of view and the whole damn thing needs replacing.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 17.01.2023, 22:09
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 19,400
Groaned at 852 Times in 665 Posts
Thanked 29,945 Times in 12,175 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

Quote:
View Post
Tell your friend to get the windscreen repaired/replaced. What are we talking about here? CHF400-800?

.
Might not be much to you but might be a hell of a lot for a Ukrainian refuge who may have lost everything already.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 18.01.2023, 06:13
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,823
Groaned at 367 Times in 316 Posts
Thanked 26,856 Times in 10,971 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

Quote:
View Post
...all assuming he actually does have insurance being a Ukrainian displaced person
For those interested, this is the car insurance situation for UA refugees.

Note that other Swiss residents may not drive their vehicle.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 18.01.2023, 08:29
Mrs. Doolittle's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lugano
Posts: 6,860
Groaned at 130 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 8,502 Times in 3,939 Posts
Mrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond reputeMrs. Doolittle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

Quote:
View Post
A friend has got his windshield damaged by a Swiss person (trying to load a bulky item in the front seat that went unlucky).
It isn't clear to me whether both people were loading the item together, or just the "Swiss"person.

Did the damage occur at the time of loading or only after the driver started driving?

I do hope a solution can be found.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Mrs. Doolittle for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 18.01.2023, 14:33
user137's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 819
Groaned at 20 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 498 Times in 318 Posts
user137 has an excellent reputationuser137 has an excellent reputationuser137 has an excellent reputationuser137 has an excellent reputation
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

Quote:
View Post
It isn't clear to me whether both people were loading the item together, or just the "Swiss"person.
The Swiss person was loading. I called him and he says they "did it together". My friend says there is no way they would both physically fit into the front right seat. They were trying to load a chair. In the end it's one person's word against the other's.

Quote:
Did the damage occur at the time of loading or only after the driver started driving?
By loading the chair the wheels of the base cracked the screen, actually on 2 places. Repair (replacement) costs are ~1400 CHF and him being a displaced Ukrainian, it's currently breaking his living costs budget, so he can't drive now.

The Swiss guy opted to do nothing and deflect, so there's no communication happening right now.

I wanted to know if there's anything my friend needs to do before going to Betreibung, or can he start the process as it is (one registered letter bounced, the Swiss guy saying he's not taking any letter from him).
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 18.01.2023, 14:49
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 14,001
Groaned at 111 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 21,898 Times in 9,607 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

Quote:
View Post
The Swiss person was loading.
Important is: Why was the Swiss person loading this chair? Whos chair was it. And who profited from the chair being in the car. Depending on these answers the Swiss person might not be liable. Yes it sucks.

Quote:
View Post
I wanted to know if there's anything my friend needs to do before going to Betreibung, or can he start the process as it is (one registered letter bounced, the Swiss guy saying he's not taking any letter from him).
There is no pre-requirement to start a Betreibung. However, for a successful Betreibung there should be an unpaid debt or claim. The bounced letter is more than enough.

An other option is to use directly the Schlichtungsverfahren at the Justice of Peace (Friedensrichter) w/o a prior Betreibung. This might be cheaper, faster, and more convenient because if the Betreibung is contested, you will have to do it anyway.
__________________
All my posts are are under CC BY-SA 4.0 DEED Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 18.01.2023, 14:56
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 7,720
Groaned at 186 Times in 118 Posts
Thanked 9,110 Times in 4,076 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

Sorry but if both the Ukrainian and Swiss were there and involved in this, I don’t think the Ukrainian has a leg to stand on. Even if he wasn’t touching the chair at the time, he did not speak up and say don’t do that it’s a stupid idea (which it sounds) therefore he is as much to blame. If he has him put on the debt registry he is an arse!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Island Monkey for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 18.01.2023, 21:33
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 11,007
Groaned at 737 Times in 543 Posts
Thanked 15,085 Times in 7,927 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Debt claim / collection against a private person

Quote:
View Post
The Swiss person was loading. I called him and he says they "did it together". My friend says there is no way they would both physically fit into the front right seat. They were trying to load a chair. In the end it's one person's word against the other's.
The two statements aren't mutually exclusive.
One plausible situation would be that the Swiss is already in the passenger seat and the Ukrainian (it's his car so he's the driver) heaves it onto him. At any rate, in all likelihood both were directly participating, otherwise the helper wouldn't have been needed in the first place.

Legally, this is a "Gefälligkeit", a favor without personal gain. There's no liability unless the helper acted with gross negligence or against the owner's instructions, neither appears to be the case.

However it's nonetheless possible that the helper's liability insurance covers the damage, some companies do others don't. The Ukranian's situation may well increase the chances for that.

Since the start of this year, the damaged party can themselves raise a claim against the (assumed) culprit's insurance (in the past, only the insured person could do that). So the question is, does the helper have private liability insurance and with which company? I'm not aware of some kind of central registry, but OP's own insurance should know or otherwise be able to help. Feedback on this point would be welcome.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
betreibung, debt collection




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
debt collection clumsy Daily life 14 14.07.2022 12:47
Debt Collection ('They' owe me) PJSleep Finance/banking/taxation 4 17.03.2020 10:29
Debt collection asmpic Finance/banking/taxation 9 19.01.2020 15:03
help with debt collection Ciccio Finance/banking/taxation 7 17.08.2017 17:44
Debt Collection BOBG48 Finance/banking/taxation 7 14.04.2014 18:53


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0