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  #21  
Old 10.05.2023, 13:41
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Re: How is this allowed??

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It's obviously discrimination... in the literal sense of the word. But I personally do not get why people have an issue with it: Everyone wants to be part of an "exclusive" club without being the one excluded... ever. I am totally fine if Lesbians have their own bars and dont want me to be there. I have no issue with parties that cater for a specific audience and if I am not part of that subculture... I leave them alone. Non-discrimination laws are about everyone having the right to live their life the way they want without having to face serious issues for their skin color, sexual orientation, religion or whatever else... it doesnt mean you need to be allowed into every club ever.

.
How about a club with "No blacks allowed?"

How about "No ugly people" or "No disabled?" or "No fat birds?"

Is there a line for you?
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  #22  
Old 10.05.2023, 13:46
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Re: How is this allowed??

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How about a club with "No blacks allowed?"

How about "No ugly people" or "No disabled?" or "No fat birds?"

Is there a line for you?
Some reasonable suggestions here. Usually that's what the bouncers take care of as the club's don't like to put this in writing.
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Old 10.05.2023, 13:52
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Re: How is this allowed??

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But I've seen lies and deceit applied to survival in other places. Not because the queer are deceitful by nature, just because society makes their lives easier when they don't tell the truth.

So, bottom line, you don't know. Then I go back to my previous statement that's its just plain stupid to bundle whites with straights and queer with people of "color". What better way to draw delineation lines and create artificial groupings?
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Old 10.05.2023, 14:14
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Re: How is this allowed??

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Come on, what makes you think "this time is different"?...Only some of the elder adults that cannot read between the lines see discrimination.
Fixed that for you.

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How about a club with "No blacks allowed?"

How about "No ugly people" or "No disabled?" or "No fat birds?"

Is there a line for you?
All four of those attributes are visible. Being white and straight is not. In any case, if you're white and straight and want to enter the club before 12, there's nothing to stop you.
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Old 10.05.2023, 14:19
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Re: How is this allowed??

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... its just plain stupid to bundle whites with straights and queer with people of "color"....
The idea of intersectionalist theory is that people of color and queer people form groups who both suffer discrimination in society, opprobrium and oppression. I.e. they have a common experience in certain areas.

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Intersectionality is an analytical framework for understanding how a person's various social and political identities combine to create different modes of discrimination and privilege. Intersectionality identifies multiple factors of advantage and disadvantage. Examples of these factors include gender, caste, sex, race, ethnicity, class, sexuality, religion, disability, weight, and physical appearance.These intersecting and overlapping social identities may be both empowering and oppressing.
TL;DR - I think it's "count your privileges".
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Old 10.05.2023, 14:21
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Re: How is this allowed??

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All four of those attributes are visible.
I'm pretty sure you could be disabled and it not be visible.

Blind
Deaf
Mental capacity problems
Stroke victim with mobility problems

But that's digressing...
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  #27  
Old 10.05.2023, 14:31
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Re: How is this allowed??

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How about a club with "No blacks allowed?"

How about "No ugly people" or "No disabled?" or "No fat birds?"

Is there a line for you?
Sure. Like most things in life is it not completely black and white... but in essence: the line is "is there a legitimate reason to be exclusive?". I give an example: I just booked an "adult only" hotel for the wife and me. It's by definition discriminatory against families with kids. I do however believe that I have a legitimate interest to go to a hotel without screaming kids and the families have a legitimate interest that those childless people who get annoyed about their lovely little angels screaming... go somewhere to a different hotel than them. Everyone happy...

I went to the swimming pool lately. There is a changing room for ladies and one for men. I went to the men one without feeling discriminated against. In the men one is a special section for boys. That excludes me but I have no issue and no, do not identify as a child either.

I have no problem with the more thorny subjects either: I believe that we should cater for disabled people and include them as good as we can in social settings. That goes from disability parking spots to making football stadiums barrier free. But that doesnt mean that the guy in the wheelchair has some God given right to play in a football team... and everyone else has to slow down for him.

When it comes to "ugly" are things a lot more subjective but yes - I think its ok that clubs have bouncers and that party organizers are not forced to cater to everyone... but can decide who is accepted and who not. Even if that means that a middle aged guy like me doesnt get into some parties anymore.
In my personal experience is it usually not the "borderline" cases that are the problem. If the dress code is "formal" and they guy in the Gucci track suit doesnt get it... does he typically claim that its all because of racism...
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Old 10.05.2023, 14:50
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Re: How is this allowed??

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I'm pretty sure you could be disabled and it not be visible...
Sure, but they'd not be visibly disabled so allowed in. Unless they had a T-Shirt saying "Actually, I am disabled" or something...

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Sure. Like most things in life is it not completely black and white...
I see what you did there.
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  #29  
Old 10.05.2023, 15:23
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Re: How is this allowed??

I'm closer to sugar daddy than young that goes to clubs, anyway let's try a bit of empathy.

Assume for 1 min you organizing a party for horny 20 YOs from every color of the rainbow. Everyone knows that rejection while hooking up sucks, and not in a endearing way. So, how could you organize the thing so that your horny customers know what everyone is looking for without making questions like "what is sexual preference"? A possibility is to schedule the entry and let people choose when to enter. In this way everyone knows without asking.

Let's leave the shoes of party organizer and let's try now the shoes of a horny guy waiting outside while hanging around out with some friends. Oh.....such a beautiful creature just passed by and your jaw is on the floor. She enters the club before X hour. One of your friends kick you with the elbow and jokes "not for you, haha".

In the end there's less friction, less awkwardness and more hooking up. People is happy. I guess the only lesson here is to try to understand what the f*** the young are doing and not jump to conclusions.

PS. I'm wondering if my beach+mountain bum phase lasted too long and now I cannot fit among decent adults :/
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  #30  
Old 10.05.2023, 15:39
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Re: How is this allowed??

I do wonder how many of those outraged by this actually want to go to this club at 11pm? Because if they don't they're simply being outraged on behalf of other people like typically loony lefties...
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  #31  
Old 10.05.2023, 16:05
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Re: How is this allowed??

There’s a club here in Bern that has made it known they will limit the amount of straight males into the club because their behavior was often threatening and some issues happened. I can understand that … it’s a left leaning place with loads of gays, so perhaps it is best to direct people who have issues with that lifestyle to go to other clubs where they will fit more in.

There is also a left leaning restaurant in town that’s been in the news quite a bit recently. It has a beautiful beer garden, food is good & the beer is even better. They have no issues if you want to smoke some grass as my husband likes to do occasionally, so we always love to go there on a Saturday afternoon. We always felt very accepted there until recently, things have changed. First there was the canceling mid performance of a white reggae band because they had dreadlocks & were therefore guilty of cultural appropriation. We shrugged that off and went back anyway one weekend when a young woman walked up to our table and handed us a flyer. She asked if we met the criteria on the paper - apparently because my husband identified as a straight CIS man, he was not welcome as that was a day only for women or men who identified as gay, trans, non binary etc.. The normally bustling spot was nearly empty and we decided that was the last time we would ever go there.

When I was younger, things were much worse than they are now, but I find people were also more accepting. Now everything is clearly defined and lines are drawn & people are put in boxes - it’s very sad and very boring.
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  #32  
Old 10.05.2023, 16:26
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Re: How is this allowed??

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There’s a club here in Bern that has made it known they will limit the amount of straight males into the club because their behavior was often threatening and some issues happened. I can understand that … it’s a left leaning place with loads of gays, so perhaps it is best to direct people who have issues with that lifestyle to go to other clubs where they will fit more in.

There is also a left leaning restaurant in town that’s been in the news quite a bit recently. It has a beautiful beer garden, food is good & the beer is even better. They have no issues if you want to smoke some grass as my husband likes to do occasionally, so we always love to go there on a Saturday afternoon. We always felt very accepted there until recently, things have changed. First there was the canceling mid performance of a white reggae band because they had dreadlocks & were therefore guilty of cultural appropriation. We shrugged that off and went back anyway one weekend when a young woman walked up to our table and handed us a flyer. She asked if we met the criteria on the paper - apparently because my husband identified as a straight CIS man, he was not welcome as that was a day only for women or men who identified as gay, trans, non binary etc.. The normally bustling spot was nearly empty and we decided that was the last time we would ever go there.

When I was younger, things were much worse than they are now, but I find people were also more accepting. Now everything is clearly defined and lines are drawn & people are put in boxes - it’s very sad and very boring.
I could understand them telling someone they're not welcome if they were shouting obscenities at the clientele or generally causing a nuisance but if you're just sitting there minding your own beeswax, contributing to the turnover, happily absorbing the atmosphere, immersed in whatever kaleidoscope makes up the restaurant, that should be embraced.

It's cockwombles like that woman that create tension and division between people.
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  #33  
Old 10.05.2023, 16:29
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Re: How is this allowed??

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I could understand them telling someone they're not welcome if they were shouting obscenities at the clientele or generally causing a nuisance but if you're just sitting there minding your own beeswax, contributing to the turnover, happily absorbing the atmosphere, immersed in whatever kaleidoscope makes up the restaurant, that should be embraced.

It's cockwombles like that woman that create tension and division between people.
Exactly, it was disappointing as I felt more accepted there than I had anywhere, especially as a noisy foreigner. My husband and I’s first kiss was on the dance floor of a gay bar, he’s incredibly open and accepting and he shouldn’t be asked to leave just because he’s happy with his gender and likes the ladies.

I also heard they turned away some young guys in military uniform because they are “pacifists”. The military is compulsory FFS … it’s very sad. All of this crud is why I’m happy I grew up when I did and I will just stay at home now. It was good while it lasted …

This is what causes anger and division …
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  #34  
Old 10.05.2023, 16:36
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Re: How is this allowed??

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it’s very sad. All of this crud is why I’m happy I grew up when I did and I will just stay at home now. It was good while it lasted …

Indeed it is and although you groaned at my post this is precisely what I meant with "this is the new normal". Drawing delineation lines and bundling whole groups into "NOT OK" and "OK" will certainly not end well. Pushing group identity over personality has never been a road to peace

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Everyone knows that rejection while hooking up sucks, and not in a endearing way. So, how could you organize the thing so that your horny customers know what everyone is looking for without making questions like "what is sexual preference"?
If you assume all bar customers are looking for hookups and seperating them in order to ease the logistics of hooking up, indeed you haven't been to a bar for far too long.
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Old 10.05.2023, 16:46
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Re: How is this allowed??

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Indeed it is and although you groaned at my post this is precisely what I meant with "this is the new normal". Drawing delineation lines and bundling whole groups into "NOT OK" and "OK" will certainly not end well. Pushing group identity over personality has never been a road to peace .
I groaned at your post because you said you identified as a lesbian, I wished more straight dudes realized how unfunny that joke is. All good though!
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Old 10.05.2023, 16:48
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Re: How is this allowed??

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There is also a left leaning restaurant in town that’s been in the news quite a bit recently. It has a beautiful beer garden, food is good & the beer is even better. They have no issues if you want to smoke some grass as my husband likes to do occasionally, so we always love to go there on a Saturday afternoon. We always felt very accepted there until recently, things have changed. First there was the canceling mid performance of a white reggae band because they had dreadlocks & were therefore guilty of cultural appropriation. We shrugged that off and went back anyway one weekend when a young woman walked up to our table and handed us a flyer. She asked if we met the criteria on the paper - apparently because my husband identified as a straight CIS man, he was not welcome as that was a day only for women or men who identified as gay, trans, non binary etc.. The normally bustling spot was nearly empty and we decided that was the last time we would ever go there.

When I was younger, things were much worse than they are now, but I find people were also more accepting. Now everything is clearly defined and lines are drawn & people are put in boxes - it’s very sad and very boring.
Crazy. And these people would probably freak out if an employer asked them how they "identify".
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Old 10.05.2023, 16:51
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Re: How is this allowed??

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I groaned at your post because you said you identified as a lesbian, I wished more straight dudes realized how unfunny that joke is.

Think about it: where do you put a limit to self-identification?

p.s. Of course it's ridiculous for me to self-identify as lesbian. But it was not meant as a joke, rather as a provocation
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Old 10.05.2023, 17:00
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Re: How is this allowed??

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Think about it: where do you put a limit to self-identification?

p.s. Of course it's ridiculous for me to self-identify as lesbian. But it was not meant as a joke, rather as a provocation
But why do you want to provoke?

Many men use it as a joke, I have a close lesbian friend and I’ve witnessed men use it on her numerous times. “I’m a lesbian” - “Oh I am too”.
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Old 10.05.2023, 17:05
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Re: How is this allowed??

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Many men use it as a joke, I have a close lesbian friend and I’ve witnessed men use it on her numerous times. “I’m a lesbian” - “Oh I am too”.
So someone can identify as something, but someone else cannot? When is it OK and when it is not?
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Old 10.05.2023, 17:20
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Re: How is this allowed??

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I also heard they turned away some young guys in military uniform because they are “pacifists”.
I wonder what would have happened if those guys had said "but we're gay".

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I groaned at your post because you said you identified as a lesbian
There are, however, some transwomen with penises who consider themselves lesbian.
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