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  #241  
Old 26.10.2011, 17:29
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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Swiss people and self reflection is something that does not match.. I lived here for 1 year now and will leave by the end of the month. This is by far the most discriminating place I ever lived. The Swiss adagium: "Thieves that are scared to be robbed" What annoys me the most is the total lack of respect for others and the horrific superior attitude combined with no self reflection.. Swiss mountain Hillbillies you all enjoy your paradise country without me, since I am gone soon ;-)
(and that was the best decision I ever made)
Would you please change your name in "Nielsoutofzurich" upon leaving. Thanks
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  #242  
Old 26.10.2011, 17:30
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

He just went on a short holiday.
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  #243  
Old 26.10.2011, 18:38
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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Swiss people and self reflection is something that does not match.. I lived here for 1 year now and will leave by the end of the month. This is by far the most discriminating place I ever lived. The Swiss adagium: "Thieves that are scared to be robbed" What annoys me the most is the total lack of respect for others and the horrific superior attitude combined with no self reflection.. Swiss mountain Hillbillies you all enjoy your paradise country without me, since I am gone soon ;-)
(and that was the best decision I ever made)
Oh. FFS, just go already!
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  #244  
Old 26.10.2011, 19:13
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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He just went on a short holiday.
You're firing from the hip on this thread jrspet. Just wondered what sort of line of prose you'd use if you were re-making a Deathwish flick as you stand over the bad guy with your Colt lined up in his face... about to make it dark?
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  #245  
Old 26.10.2011, 19:50
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

It was a carefully weighted decision. Best he stayed out and accessed the forum on a read-only basis for a few days.
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  #246  
Old 27.10.2011, 00:08
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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Swiss people and self reflection is something that does not match.. I lived here for 1 year now and will leave by the end of the month.
Well, judging by your posts on this forum, you won't be missed.

Farewell!
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  #247  
Old 11.11.2011, 21:54
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

Very democratic mr or mrs JRSpet to join into a discussion and make sure that you can shut someone up ;-) I admire this. Funny that it works this way though, only people who are nice and positive are allowed to say something here? Then call it the Swiss + forum instead of the English Forum. anyways, I left, best decision I made in 2011! But if people are happy in Swiss, I am happy for them as well. Its not my cup of tea though
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  #248  
Old 21.03.2012, 14:24
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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dave, the fact that so many people join this forum speaks for itself. swiss generally have a harder time (than other folks) to accept what's not swiss.
after 15 years i couldn't develope love for this country and i don't know yet an expat with more than 10 years that love it neither. for many years i though i was the one with "integration" problems. but as i met more and more foreigners i'm able to say that i did and do all that is in my hands (included studying schwiizertüüscht, feel comfortable in the alps, cooking swiss, you name it.) to fit in this society, still i was able to fully accomplish it just at a superficial level. please check out the new facts cover report "schweizer mobben deutsche". i feel that germans are a powerful community that thanks it's reputation as reliable workers, can express with a fair amount of credibility what foreign employees have to go through working and living in switzerland. and for the majority with families and stuff moving from here is not so easy, if it would, i guarantee you that a big deal of expats would do it "ipso facto". i understand that a lot of new comers are very enthusiastic (as i was!) on the positive yet shallow aspects of the country, salaries, transport efficiency, low taxes, etc. ask them in 5 years...
Considering that lots of the germans, as experienced in vacationing spots and unfortunately also in the swiss workplace, are considered after russians and right before the british, the most obnoxious, rude people on earth, I don't know if that is a good comparison. Just google worst tourists by country.

I think the fame for being reliable workers is something from the past, and while there are surely also such people, it is not the majority. Since Switzerland opened the borders it's been flooded by the hordes and some of these people lack any kind of manners whatsoever or any sense of acceptable social behaviour.
They also seem to expect Switzerland to adapt to them instead of the other way around.
They move here because they want to work here, there is - as someone else already mentioned - a choice involved.

I don't know what people expect: hey, people...most of us are strangers here, if you want to feel like home, stay home.

Swiss are very insular, but they are also a pretty polite, non aggressive people and while they might not stop and ask if you are feeling ok or not, I have never been refused help whenever I asked for it. The swiss tend to be private and do not like to impose on others.

I am fairly well traveled and been in many countries in the world, I truly do not think there is a safer place to live and people, who might not jump up and down, but actually care most of the time for their country and it's laws.
And while a conservative outlook might slow things a bit down, I for my part believe faster is not better.

I don't think city people should be considered representative for any country as urbane cultures are by far the most neurotic, unhealthy and the least considerate anywhere.
I think Zurich is by far better than places like New York or London, and however unfriendly the service in some places might be it's quite mild compared to Paris 8-O

Oh, and don't forget the vulgarities - and I really do believe that the overuse of vulgar language is a sign of ignorance.
Just try to have a conversation in some cultures and every second word is something rude and where f*** is the most used word, including punctuation.

Personally I think too many English speakers expect others to speak english to them, so they don't have to make an effort and that is both lazy and inconsiderate. But then, that is my take on it.
It comes probably from those same cultures not teaching any other languages in school, I don't know.

Maybe relationships with others would work better if we didn't expect everybody else to change to suit us and instead make an effort.
This sense of entitlement some people seem to have is ...scary.

And yes, please, lets keep diversity in looks, language and culture everywhere

There is nothing sadder as seeing so many city people walking around wearing what some magazine tells them to wear, eating what some culture mag tells them they should consider buying
and voting what their newspaper of choice tells them to think.

I am not sure if no sense of self whatsoever is a good thing to develop.

Peace
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  #249  
Old 21.03.2012, 16:20
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

I really, really thought I was alone here...i got married to a swiss girl and for the past few months i have been living in zurich. She has been giving me so much crap about my complaints...now that i've read this...i know im not crazy...

Im from New York City...im young hip and all that crap...i was born and raised in midtown, i grew up understanding that if I say or do something rude or disrespectful to someone...i might just get my jaw broken...and if someone disrespected me, they could face the same fate.

Now please understand me, this reaction is not new york to me, or american...its a human reaction to being threatened by another...now im not saying i go around knocking peoples jaws off if they look at me sideways...im just saying that as a man that is part of the human race...i know when its time to escalate to violence and i understand that if i say something to someone that makes them feel awful or disrespected...i deserve an action in kind.

from my dealings here...the swiss are painfully passive/aggressive...passive in action/ aggressive with words....they speak without the understanding of consequence. This is not country or culture to me...it is manhood...i respect culture, i respect traditions...being a punk of a man is neither...

i speak 3 languages...none of which are speaking like these "men"...respect is a 2 way street...and the swiss play chicken on the road with each other and call it culture...i call it un-manly...
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  #250  
Old 21.03.2012, 17:00
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

[QUOTE=Chanceblack;1519569]


im young hip and all that crap...


QUOTE]

'crap' being the operative word of this highly intelligent contribution.

Thank God Switzerland isn't Cowboy and Indian country, and that we do have a history and a culture that is above the level of Mike Tyson.
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  #251  
Old 21.03.2012, 17:15
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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I really, really thought I was alone here...i got married to a swiss girl and for the past few months i have been living in zurich. She has been giving me so much crap about my complaints...now that i've read this...i know im not crazy...

Im from New York City...im young hip and all that crap...i was born and raised in midtown, i grew up understanding that if I say or do something rude or disrespectful to someone...i might just get my jaw broken...and if someone disrespected me, they could face the same fate.

Now please understand me, this reaction is not new york to me, or american...its a human reaction to being threatened by another...now im not saying i go around knocking peoples jaws off if they look at me sideways...im just saying that as a man that is part of the human race...i know when its time to escalate to violence and i understand that if i say something to someone that makes them feel awful or disrespected...i deserve an action in kind.

from my dealings here...the swiss are painfully passive/aggressive...passive in action/ aggressive with words....they speak without the understanding of consequence. This is not country or culture to me...it is manhood...i respect culture, i respect traditions...being a punk of a man is neither...

i speak 3 languages...none of which are speaking like these "men"...respect is a 2 way street...and the swiss play chicken on the road with each other and call it culture...i call it un-manly...
Mm, if you say so. Welcome to culture shock.

Some food for thought: how do you "know when it is time" to escalate from words to violence? Were you born knowing this? Obviously not, you weren't born knowing enough language to even understand an insult. So you must have learned it somewhere, probably inhaled it from the culture around you as you were growing up.

People here grew up in a different culture, so it should not be intellectually surprising that they would draw the line differently, in this area as well as in many others.

I say "intellectually" surprising because no matter how prepared you are to accept them in theory, these cultural differences can still be quite startling when you actually bump up against them. It really takes a conscious effort sometimes to recall that culture is not universal, that your neighbor is probably doing exactly what is prescribed by his culture - even if that is totally at odds with yours.

Anyway, good to know you are not alone, isn't it?

PS - just so you know, they are not actually playing chicken with you, their idea of personal space in this context is simply much different. Here you don't expect to have an 18-inch bubble of empty space around you at all times while walking, and you don't maneuver as though you had one. If you wouldn't mind passing within 3 inches of someone on a crowded platform, there is no need to move more than 3 inches aside on an otherwise empty platform - that's how the reasoning goes. (Standing, you may have noticed, is a different matter. The Swiss don't stand any closer than anyone else, or not that I've noticed anyway.)
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  #252  
Old 21.03.2012, 17:15
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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Im from New York City...im young hip and all that crap...i was born and raised in midtown, i grew up understanding that if I say or do something rude or disrespectful to someone...i might just get my jaw broken...and if someone disrespected me, they could face the same fate.

Now please understand me, this reaction is not new york to me, or american...its a human reaction to being threatened by another...now im not saying i go around knocking peoples jaws off if they look at me sideways...im just saying that as a man that is part of the human race...i know when its time to escalate to violence and i understand that if i say something to someone that makes them feel awful or disrespected...i deserve an action in kind.

i speak 3 languages...none of which are speaking like these "men"...respect is a 2 way street...and the swiss play chicken on the road with each other and call it culture...i call it un-manly...
Lol, congrats for one of the most stupid posts ever. If you feel offended by someone else's words you attack them physically? You, good sir, are an idiot.
edit: And to claim that there's anything universal about your NY rage culture just indicates that you probably never got outside your part of town before coming here...
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  #253  
Old 21.03.2012, 17:20
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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Lol, congrats for one of the most stupid posts ever. If you feel offended by someone else's words you attack them physically? You, good sir, are an idiot.
Meh, just tough talk... not to be taken too literally, methinks. (Mehopes.)
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  #254  
Old 21.03.2012, 18:53
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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I really, really thought I was alone here...i got married to a swiss girl and for the past few months i have been living in zurich. She has been giving me so much crap about my complaints...now that i've read this...i know im not crazy...

Im from New York City...im young hip and all that crap...i was born and raised in midtown, i grew up understanding that if I say or do something rude or disrespectful to someone...i might just get my jaw broken...and if someone disrespected me, they could face the same fate.

Now please understand me, this reaction is not new york to me, or american...its a human reaction to being threatened by another...now im not saying i go around knocking peoples jaws off if they look at me sideways...im just saying that as a man that is part of the human race...i know when its time to escalate to violence and i understand that if i say something to someone that makes them feel awful or disrespected...i deserve an action in kind.

from my dealings here...the swiss are painfully passive/aggressive...passive in action/ aggressive with words....they speak without the understanding of consequence. This is not country or culture to me...it is manhood...i respect culture, i respect traditions...being a punk of a man is neither...

i speak 3 languages...none of which are speaking like these "men"...respect is a 2 way street...and the swiss play chicken on the road with each other and call it culture...i call it un-manly...
as someone born and raised in Detroit, I offer you the following couple of thoughts:

1. first of all, midtown is hardly the kind of place where someone your age would have had to worry about having their jaw broken. parts of Brooklyn, sure, but midtown is about as sedate an urban center as you will find in the States. hell, even the Village and Bowery are boringly-sedate these days. actually, I love midtown, one of the things I miss most about the States.

2. in terms of the "respect" - the locals I know are actually very direct. if they disagree with something you say, correct your butchering of their language, glare at you for parking on the white line instead of inside it, curse at you for not bagging your groceries quickly enough at Migros, wonder aloud why your kids are so Goddamned loud, etc., they do not mean any offense by it. they are simply, from their point of reference, making a statement of fact regarding the situation. these daily interactions are not a challenge to your manhood or an invitation for fisticuffs, nor are they intended to be threatening.

try to think of Switzerland like a big family from New Jersey, but without the bad hair, the pollution, the mob, the Garden State traffic and the skee-ball - everytime they point out all the things you're doing that upset or annoy them, it's actually a sign of affection.

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  #255  
Old 21.03.2012, 18:58
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

thank you for your comments...and i am sorry for how i feel...but i have had one eye opening time here...every single swiss male friend has told my wife that i am not here for her but im here for the amount of money i can make...AFTER meeting me and being nice in my face...when i saw them after i found this out and approached them...by the way...them is 20 or so people, they said that they said no such thing...then proceeded to complain to my wife that she told me what they really felt.....they dont know that i made more money in ny then i can ever make here...and they dont know that i have indeed traveled the world.

i just thought this was a safe place to speak truth about what a visitor thinks and feels about your home...seeing as in my short time here i have heard more rude and disrespectful comments about america than i ever have i my life (from men who dont know when to shut up)...

look, i know switzerland is pretty, and quality of life is exceptional ...but all swiss people ever seem to do is talk about how pretty and exceptional they are....its like the prettiest girl in the room...the more she says shes pretty and the best looking woman there...the uglier she starts to look to the rest of us...its obnoxious...and im not mike tyson...i met him...hes not that tough...hes just crazy and insecure....my name is Anthony,...im sane and dissapointed that im living in a place where being rude and isolating is a culture thing...i thought i left that behavior behind at the high school lunch table
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  #256  
Old 21.03.2012, 22:45
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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thank you for your comments...and i am sorry for how i feel...but i have had one eye opening time here...every single swiss male friend has told my wife that i am not here for her but im here for the amount of money i can make...AFTER meeting me and being nice in my face...when i saw them after i found this out and approached them...by the way...them is 20 or so people, they said that they said no such thing...then proceeded to complain to my wife that she told me what they really felt.....they dont know that i made more money in ny then i can ever make here...and they dont know that i have indeed traveled the world.

i just thought this was a safe place to speak truth about what a visitor thinks and feels about your home...seeing as in my short time here i have heard more rude and disrespectful comments about america than i ever have i my life (from men who dont know when to shut up)...

look, i know switzerland is pretty, and quality of life is exceptional ...but all swiss people ever seem to do is talk about how pretty and exceptional they are....its like the prettiest girl in the room...the more she says shes pretty and the best looking woman there...the uglier she starts to look to the rest of us...its obnoxious...and im not mike tyson...i met him...hes not that tough...hes just crazy and insecure....my name is Anthony,...im sane and dissapointed that im living in a place where being rude and isolating is a culture thing...i thought i left that behavior behind at the high school lunch table
sounds to me like you don't have a Switzerland problem, you have a social circle problem.

keep in mind, posting on the EF is really not all that different from strolling around Zurich telling strangers what you're thinking (apologies to the posters from the French or Italian-speaking parts of the country). just about as safe, too, in terms of the reactions you will get.

Switzerland is not a laid-back place, not the way we as Americans think of the term, anyway. but, I am reasonably confident that, if you stick with it, you will eventually meet locals and fellow foreigners who will appreciate and in fact admire your laid-back, NYC-American vibe. more importantly, those folks will usually also be more than willing to help you understand the things that make them "Swiss", at which point you'll probably start to appreciate the local vibe and your surroundings a little more.
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Old 22.03.2012, 00:28
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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if I say or do something rude or disrespectful to someone...i might just get my jaw broken...and if someone disrespected me, they could face the same fate.
-
Most people respect each other and are NOT "disrespectful" to anybody. And IF somebody is disrespectful, it is no reason to become violent

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Now please understand me, this reaction is not new york to me, or american...its a human reaction to being threatened by another...now im not saying i go around knocking peoples jaws off if they look at me sideways...im just saying that as a man that is part of the human race..
-
It is NOT part of "human race" to threaten anyone, neither is it to get violent if fealing threatened. Those times should be a thing of the past


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if i say something to someone that makes them feel awful or disrespected...i deserve an action in kind.
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whatever you may deserve, it is no reason for whomever to "act" against you violently

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from my dealings here...the swiss are painfully passive/aggressive...passive in action/ aggressive with words....they speak without the understanding of consequence
-
what in your view are "aggressive words" ? and what "consequences" for what words ? You see, people here generally do not fear "consequences" as long as you abstain from insulting others
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  #258  
Old 22.03.2012, 00:46
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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thank you for your comments...and i am sorry for how i feel...but i have had one eye opening time here...every single swiss male friend has told my wife that i am not here for her but im here for the amount of money i can make...AFTER meeting me and being nice in my face...when i saw them after i found this out and approached them...by the way...them is 20 or so people, they said that they said no such thing...then proceeded to complain to my wife that she told me what they really felt.....they dont know that i made more money in ny then i can ever make here...and they dont know that i have indeed traveled the world.

i just thought this was a safe place to speak truth about what a visitor thinks and feels about your home...seeing as in my short time here i have heard more rude and disrespectful comments about america than i ever have i my life (from men who dont know when to shut up)...

look, i know switzerland is pretty, and quality of life is exceptional ...but all swiss people ever seem to do is talk about how pretty and exceptional they are....its like the prettiest girl in the room...the more she says shes pretty and the best looking woman there...the uglier she starts to look to the rest of us...its obnoxious...and im not mike tyson...i met him...hes not that tough...hes just crazy and insecure....my name is Anthony,...im sane and dissapointed that im living in a place where being rude and isolating is a culture thing...i thought i left that behavior behind at the high school lunch table
I am just wondering what "friends" your wife has here, quite obviously a hopeless congregation of ugly intrigant folks. I neither know your wife nor her friends, but have to reserve my right to have my thoughts .......

You mention A) that you earned heaps in NY and B) that you travelled the world. And here I see your problem. You as a traveller always had enough money to stay in upmarket-hotels, to use taxis and to go to expensive restaurants, instead of staying in "tourist-class-hotels", use public transport, eat in more normal places, and ask locals for the way.
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Old 22.03.2012, 09:13
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

Ok, I understand you a little better now, but I have to second what Wolli said: you shouldn't question the Swiss culture, you should question the sort of friends your wife has. And secondly, if she asked them for a candid opinion then she should have cleared the missunderstanding (about you using her to come her to earn money) and most importantly not tell you about it, that's what a frank answer is for after all. If they came on their own behalf they are idiots and shouldn't be your wive's friends..

And just for your understanding, we try to avoid fights here, it's considered civilized.. (as is the case elsewhere in the world by the way, but I'm sure you know that, you've travelled),
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Old 22.03.2012, 09:25
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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im sane and dissapointed that im living in a place where being rude and isolating is a culture thing...
You've never lived in New England, have you?

Tom
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