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  #81  
Old 24.02.2012, 15:34
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

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I know, we've had this discussion on your previous thread, but I still cannot believe it.... every Swiss who can afford it owns a holiday home in Spain or Italy (the wealthy suburbs of Zurich are deserted on weekends), people will spend hours in traffic jams just to get a few hours of sunshine, and you would prefer this over Australia????
Indeed.

ISTJ, is that you mate?

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  #82  
Old 24.02.2012, 15:44
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

If you are a culture vulture, best not to go too far Down Under
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  #83  
Old 24.02.2012, 16:04
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

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While I agree there are many great things about Australia, I feel as though I don't fit in here. Like the US and UK, Australia is quite an extroverted society. I'm also not a fan of the drinking culture here, as I prefer to make my own fun.

From what I've heard about Switzerland, it sounds like I'd be more likely to fit in.
So, let me quickly summarize -

- you don't like to get drunk at parties
- you're scared of extrovert women
- you're not into water sports
- you don't like sunny and warm weather
- you prefer not to own a car
- you don't like laid back people around you
- you prefer to stick to the rules
- you don't like kids
- you don't want to own property
.....

hmmm.... are you sure you're not missing out on something in life....
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  #84  
Old 24.02.2012, 16:22
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

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So, let me quickly summarize -

hmmm.... are you sure you're not missing out on something in life....
Why hasn't anyone suggested a monastery yet? Seems to tick all the boxes except for maybe the complete lack of women (though I'm guessing someone may already be used to that in their life)

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Old 24.02.2012, 16:39
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

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Can someone tell me what the IT industry is like in Switzerland compared to Australia? I found it quite difficult to get a job in IT after graduating here as there is so much competition. It seems nearly every male studies IT at university here.
We moved from Oz in 99, both graduates in IT, computer science, and an BEc IT major for me. We are both in software development. Working in Oz downright sucked - long hours, less pay and a much more stressful working environment with more meetings, deadlines and watching your back. Not to mention the then 50% tax rate. We bought our first home at 21/22 and the mortgage was about 50% of our net salary. I can't see how people can live like that.

Here life is soooo much better. More money saved, better place than we could get in a similar location in Sydney, quiet neighbours (the only yobbos up late are us ) and a good work life balance.

Sure we miss our family, but we fly back every 1.5 years or so for a month in Oz and at least a couple of our relatives visit us every year.

We certainly don't miss drunk d*ckheads trying to pick fights with us when we are out (there seems to be so many glassing incidents in the paper in Sydney), or aggressive drivers on the roads. The worst Swiss folk do is leave a little note for you.
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  #86  
Old 24.02.2012, 16:52
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

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Public transport better here but also costs more here - more than it costs to buy and run a car in oz.
Not necessarily. For example, an inner-city bus ticket in Brisbane (where ISTJ is from) is 3.60 AUD, which is 60% more than an equivalent halbtax-priced ticket in Basel. Also, the running costs of a car in Oz depend heavily on what you need it for. Parking costs in downtown Brisbane are a whopping 7000 AUD per year - that's more expensive than in Zurich, although Brisbane salaries are way lower than the Swiss salaries.

--Edit. Fixed a typo...
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Old 24.02.2012, 19:57
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

ISTJ,

I think you have already made up your mind what you are going to do. I don't know why you are continuing to bother to ask us. You wrote to me in a PM asking me the same thing. I suspect you have written to a number of other Australians or other expats here. You didn't even bother to reply to me with a thank you for taking the time to be open with you.

Have you weighed up all of the responses from us than you PM'd and those responses posted here?

Most of us who make the effort to reply just want to make you aware that moving to another country is not just about a list of pros and cons. It's much more complicated than that. Please refer to my personal reply to you.

I get the impression you would have problems with certain groups whether you are in Australia, Switzerland or anywhere in the world.

Good luck
Aussiegirl1
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  #88  
Old 24.02.2012, 23:18
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

*sigh* I don't even know why I bother asking on this forum. It seems that a lot of people here enjoy attacking others based on their personal opinion, especially if they are a minority. With the exception of a few, I have experienced nothing but negativity, hostility, and bitterness on these forums. Its a good thing that this forum is not a representation of the real swiss people, otherwise I doubt I'd want to move there.

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ISTJ,

I think you have already made up your mind what you are going to do. I don't know why you are continuing to bother to ask us. You wrote to me in a PM asking me the same thing. I suspect you have written to a number of other Australians or other expats here. You didn't even bother to reply to me with a thank you for taking the time to be open with you.

Have you weighed up all of the responses from us than you PM'd and those responses posted here?
What did you expect when it was full of incorrect assumptions and negativity? I want balanced opinions of the country, not just the negative. I do wonder why you continue to live in Switzerland, because it sounds as if you hate the place? Many on this forum seem to be the same. If you don't like it, why stay there? I'm not happy with many things in Australia, which is why I want to do something about it instead of staying here and complaining all the time.

Sometimes I get the feeling that this forum is just a place for people to vent their dislike about Switzerland. Almost every thread is about the negatives, and very few positive. Given that most of you are from the UK/US/Australia, this is hardly surprising. Again, I am glad that this is not a real representation of the swiss.

I have met a few swiss during my travels, and all of them were lovely, quiet, respectful people. In fact the only people I have had a problem with were usually other Australians and the English... these people would often stumble back into the dorm in the middle of the night being drunk, loud, and waking everyone up.

Last edited by ISTJ; 24.02.2012 at 23:49.
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  #89  
Old 24.02.2012, 23:32
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

- you don't like to get drunk at parties - Correct, I prefer to live a healthy lifestyle and make my own fun
- you're scared of extrovert women - Never said scared, just prefer quieter women
- you're not into water sports - Never said this, just much prefer snow sports
- you don't like sunny and warm weather - Correct, I don't like hot weather, but sunny is nice
- you prefer not to own a car - Never said this, I just said its a big expense
- you don't like laid back people around you - There is laid back and too laid back. Most Australian's don't even know what punctuality is
- you prefer to stick to the rules - I said I prefer order, which means things running correctly
- you don't like kids - Never said this, I said I have chosen not to have them
- you don't want to own property - Never said this, I said there is an obsession with owning property in Australia. As a result we have some of the most expensive real estate prices in the world now, despite having so much land.

Gotta love all the assumptions made here. I don't criticise you for your lifestyle preferences, so why do it to me? Do you want everyone to be the same as you?
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  #90  
Old 24.02.2012, 23:34
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

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Gompa monastery in Leh.... God that place is beautiful, almost homesick
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  #91  
Old 25.02.2012, 00:07
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

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Not necessarily. For example, an inner-city bus ticket in Brisbane (where ISTJ is from) is 3.60 AUD, which is 60% more than an equivalent halbtax-priced ticket in Basel. Also, the running costs of a car in Oz depend heavily on what you need it for. Parking costs in downtown Brisbane are a whopping 7000 AUD per year - that's more expensive than in Zurich, although Brisbane salaries are way lower than the Swiss salaries.

--Edit. Fixed a typo...
Try $4.24 for peak and $3.40 off peak. This is for one way. There was a recent price increase by the government this year.

Our public transport is beyond a joke. Infrequent services which are always late, slow, and some buses which just never show up at all. Good luck if you are getting a connecting service.... chances are the first one will be late, so you'll miss the next one. Then you have to put up people talking loudly on mobile phones, misbehaving noisy kids, and people smelling like they haven't taken a shower in weeks.

It is now about the same price to own a car here than to use public transport, especially if travelling with 2 or more people. When its cheaper to use a car over public transport, you know something is very wrong.

Don't even get me started on parking costs... a few hours parking in the city will cost you a whopping $60, this is no joke.
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Old 25.02.2012, 02:53
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

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...... Then you have to put up people talking loudly on mobile phones, misbehaving noisy kids, and people smelling like they haven't taken a shower in weeks.
Oh, I thought you were talking about the No. 31 & 32 buses in Zurich there ;-)

I'll chip in as a recent returnee to Perth, after a 7.5 year stint in Zurich. Wife is Swiss and our kids are young dual passport holders. Basically I love both places and understand why both are are in Top 15 of those flawed "Quality of Life" and "Most Expensive Cities" surveys. The list of what I like about both would be too long, so I'll stick to what the negatives are to me.

Zurich - Long cold winter, with too many grey days. Sure you can ski but I don't, and it is only a weekend escape for most. Not enough "space" at home unless you are rich or move out to the "aglo" areas.

Perth - Urban sprawl, car culture and lack of decent public transport for anything other than workday commuting to the CBD, these are all inter-related. A celebration of meat-headedness, hard to explain really but a huge chunk of the population seems to have values way different to me and seem quite ignorant, whilst patting themselves on the back. Oh what a snob I am :-)

I reckon where we will be living in 10 years time is 50/50 Perth or Zurich.
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  #93  
Old 25.02.2012, 04:04
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

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Zurich - Long cold winter, with too many grey days. Sure you can ski but I don't, and it is only a weekend escape for most. Not enough "space" at home unless you are rich or move out to the "aglo" areas.

Perth - Urban sprawl, car culture and lack of decent public transport for anything other than workday commuting to the CBD, these are all inter-related. A celebration of meat-headedness, hard to explain really but a huge chunk of the population seems to have values way different to me and seem quite ignorant, whilst patting themselves on the back. Oh what a snob I am :-)

I reckon where we will be living in 10 years time is 50/50 Perth or Zurich.
Thank you for a more balanced opinion. In regards to not enough space... this isn't really a concern for me as I live alone (no family).

I certainly agree with you about the "meat-headedness" attitude in Australia.

Urban sprawl is annoying, as you have to travel far to get to some places. The reason for it in Australia is because everyone thinks they are entitled to the "great australian dream", ie owning a house with a yard. Naturally this creates more urban sprawl. Soon this "great australian dream" will be a thing of the past, because we are simply running out of land in our cities for all the yards.

Personally I think a good design would be to split a city into two zones. For example, the inner zone could be only apartments out to a radius of about 15km from the city centre. Beyond the 15km radius is the "family zone", primarily made up of houses on blocks of land. Therefore if you need a house on a block of land, you have to live out further. This also helps keep similar types of people together.... ie families with other families and singles/couples with no kids together.
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Old 25.02.2012, 05:26
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

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You forgot the most important... the beaches!!!
And unlike here you dont need a licence to go fishing and crabbing
Also meat is heaps cheaper than here.
If he likes the snow, he can still have that in Syd-Melb.

I find the worst bad point though is the distance.. Ozi is just tooo far away! And if he has family here, then its not going to be easy.

Ohhh and i forgot... OZI RULES!! Carlton is aways a great team to support
Impeccable football taste. I really did miss the footy when living in Europe a few years back.
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Old 25.02.2012, 08:55
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

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Impeccable football taste. I really did miss the footy when living in Europe a few years back.
Oh god yeah, I miss going for a fish and catching a feed of mud crabs....

I miss the seafood all together......
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Old 25.02.2012, 09:18
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

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*sigh* I don't even know why I bother asking on this forum. It seems that a lot of people here enjoy attacking others based on their personal opinion, especially if they are a minority. With the exception of a few, I have experienced nothing but negativity, hostility, and bitterness on these forums. Its a good thing that this forum is not a representation of the real swiss people, otherwise I doubt I'd want to move there.



What did you expect when it was full of incorrect assumptions and negativity? I want balanced opinions of the country, not just the negative. I do wonder why you continue to live in Switzerland, because it sounds as if you hate the place? Many on this forum seem to be the same. If you don't like it, why stay there? I'm not happy with many things in Australia, which is why I want to do something about it instead of staying here and complaining all the time.

Sometimes I get the feeling that this forum is just a place for people to vent their dislike about Switzerland. Almost every thread is about the negatives, and very few positive. Given that most of you are from the UK/US/Australia, this is hardly surprising. Again, I am glad that this is not a real representation of the swiss.

I have met a few swiss during my travels, and all of them were lovely, quiet, respectful people. In fact the only people I have had a problem with were usually other Australians and the English... these people would often stumble back into the dorm in the middle of the night being drunk, loud, and waking everyone up.
Mate you ask for opinions, your getting them and naturally you're going to get a wide variety of them. The least you can do is thank people for their imput.

If I were you I would pull your finger out and book yourself a months holiday. Come over and check the place out. At the same time check yourself into a language school and see what you think. Of course there is a honeymoon stage that goes with living overseas. Keep that in mind.

As you seem to be somewhat of an antisocial type with hints of hypersensivity and conceited paranoia. Switzerland will be just perfect for you...

No seriously, as I've already posted. I quite like the place but it took me a while to adjust. But then again I am one of those social, bbqing, concert going, football loving, bogans that you dislike. I still miss my friends and family immensely at times.

For me the key to this place is keeping busy and learning both German and Swiss German. The later comes with time but not without effort.

All in all the way in which you have portrayed yourself here, I get the feeling that you are in fact in the wrong country. You are most likely more Swiss than you realise. It's in your veins boy.
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  #97  
Old 25.02.2012, 09:35
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

Look mate what's with all the groaning and whining? Grow up!

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Urban sprawl is annoying, as you have to travel far to get to some places. The reason for it in Australia is because everyone thinks they are entitled to the "great australian dream", ie owning a house with a yard. Naturally this creates more urban sprawl. Soon this "great australian dream" will be a thing of the past, because we are simply running out of land in our cities for all the yards.

Personally I think a good design would be to split a city into two zones. For example, the inner zone could be only apartments out to a radius of about 15km from the city centre. Beyond the 15km radius is the "family zone", primarily made up of houses on blocks of land. Therefore if you need a house on a block of land, you have to live out further. This also helps keep similar types of people together.... ie families with other families and singles/couples with no kids together.
"Running out of land"? In Australia? "Outside a 15km radius"?
Aw, look mate, if you think that Australia is running out of land then don't bother with Switzerland. I mean, where do I start? OK, how about this: beyond the 15 km radius you've mentioned, there usually is the next town/city along. Then there's mountains and hillsides you can't build on. The land that's not yet been built on has been cultivated for generations, there's no extensive grassland or orchard gardes that you can simply re-zone and turn into "blocks of land".

Anyway, I have to second Chrisso. You sound more Swiss than any Swiss person I've met, especially in Australia where they usually mellow quickly. So get your backside over here and give it a try. I'll add a caveat however. If you come to Switzerland, just remembe that you're likely to live in a block of flats with plenty neighbours who expect you to fit in, and often get quite unpleasant if you don't. There's also the Swiss women who take far less sh!t than you might think (your "other" thread ). Most of all, if you're a "stranger", whingeing will not be tolerated. Can you handle that?

Good luck mate.
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Old 25.02.2012, 10:19
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

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Look mate what's with all the groaning and whining? Grow up!


"Running out of land"? In Australia? "Outside a 15km radius"?
Aw, look mate, if you think that Australia is running out of land then don't bother with Switzerland. I mean, where do I start? OK, how about this: beyond the 15 km radius you've mentioned, there usually is the next town/city along. Then there's mountains and hillsides you can't build on. The land that's not yet been built on has been cultivated for generations, there's no extensive grassland or orchard gardes that you can simply re-zone and turn into "blocks of land".

Anyway, I have to second Chrisso. You sound more Swiss than any Swiss person I've met, especially in Australia where they usually mellow quickly. So get your backside over here and give it a try. I'll add a caveat however. If you come to Switzerland, just remembe that you're likely to live in a block of flats with plenty neighbours who expect you to fit in, and often get quite unpleasant if you don't. There's also the Swiss women who take far less sh!t than you might think (your "other" thread ). Most of all, if you're a "stranger", whingeing will not be tolerated. Can you handle that?

Good luck mate.
Why don't we play spot the Australian in this thread haha. To me you and Chrisso also sound like typical Australians. How dare anyone "whinge" about your precious (former) country, because its the best country in the world right? That's what they all say... "oi mate, if ya dun like this country then ya can piss off to somewhere else" in a classic bogan slur.

Most Australian's haven't even traveled much, yet they seem to think their country is the best place to live in the world. Their ignorance is quite amusing.

As for the 15km radius, I was obviously talking about the cities in Australia. There is too much urban sprawl due to everyone wanting a house with a yard close to the city. Sorry, but not everyone can have this with a growing population.

As for swiss women taking less shit with the other thread... those women are not swiss natives, they are all expats from other countries. As I said, this is not a good representation of the real swiss people. I have met real swiss women (who have lived there since birth) and they are nothing like the women I have seen on this forum, quite the opposite in fact.

Just because I don't like many things about Australia, doesn't mean you have to get all defensive. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and some people will prefer other countries.
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Old 25.02.2012, 11:24
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

Hey ISTJ you sound like a bit of a snob but I tend to agree with most of your gripes, just to be a little different to the other aussies. Come over to Switzerland life here is great (but alas no bbqs, no beaches, no afl).

Pretty happy to be avoiding the labor government, carbon tax and every other price hike going on at the moment.
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Old 25.02.2012, 11:25
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Re: Australia vs Switzerland

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Why don't we play spot the Australian in this thread haha. To me you and Chrisso also sound like typical Australians. How dare anyone "whinge" about your precious (former) country, because its the best country in the world right? That's what they all say... "oi mate, if ya dun like this country then ya can piss off to somewhere else" in a classic bogan slur.

Most Australian's haven't even traveled much, yet they seem to think their country is the best place to live in the world. Their ignorance is quite amusing.

As for the 15km radius, I was obviously talking about the cities in Australia. There is too much urban sprawl due to everyone wanting a house with a yard close to the city. Sorry, but not everyone can have this with a growing population.

As for swiss women taking less shit with the other thread... those women are not swiss natives, they are all expats from other countries. As I said, this is not a good representation of the real swiss people. I have met real swiss women (who have lived there since birth) and they are nothing like the women I have seen on this forum, quite the opposite in fact.

Just because I don't like many things about Australia, doesn't mean you have to get all defensive. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and some people will prefer other countries.
This thread got way too serious. You are unhappy and living in a country that most Aussie expats miss and don't like anyone slurring. Stop taking advantage of the Australian hospitality and move to this landlocked oasis asap - why don't you just 'snap' yourself here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=4Am7oKBD3PU#!
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