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Old 19.03.2006, 06:02
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Banknotes

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Please note this thread was originally started to discuss what people like about Switzerland. However, part of the discussion started to focus on bank notes, specifically the security of two bank notes - the Swiss franc and the Aussie dollar.
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The Swiss franc because it has so many intricate security features built-in, and the Aussie dollar because it is made from plastic instead of paper.
Actually most bank notes US Dollar excluded are made of woven cotton and not paper. The reason is that cotton will survive a good washing whereas paper will not...

Richard

Last edited by mark; 21.03.2006 at 18:30. Reason: Adding moderator note to top
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Old 19.03.2006, 17:25
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Re: OK now tell me what you LOVE about Switzerland

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Yep agree with most of that (except restaurants), the public transport system is excellent, though a little expensive for someone who refuses to buy a halbtax card

And you are right, Sprüngli is excellent, have you ever tried the Luxemburgerli that they sell? Apparently they don't export them (they are fresh so you have to eat them within a few days), so you must buy them here.

I guess if you come from the US then you would find the Swiss franc colourful. I've never understood why US banknotes are so boring, all the same size and a single colour - a forger's dream!

Did you know that the 2 most "secure" banknotes in the world (so I've been told) are the Swiss franc and the Australian dollar. The Swiss franc because it has so many intricate security features built-in, and the Aussie dollar because it is made from plastic instead of paper. You can find info on this (including colourful pictures) here.



Here's a trick I like to show the tourists. Take a Swiss banknote, and rub one of the colourful parts on a white sheet of paper. If you rub hard enough you'll see that some of the colour comes off. This is apparently one of the many security features!

Mark
Actually, I am really suprised that the Euro was not manufactured using the aussie technology. The US could also take a lesson. Although the previous paper 100AUD note was a disaster, it was quite easily copied.

The Swiss franc security features are cool, the letters along the note (A-H) actually refer to each feature. My fave is D: Hold the note up to the light and you can see the value through minute perforations.
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Old 19.03.2006, 22:14
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Re: OK now tell me what you LOVE about Switzerland

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Actually, I am really suprised that the Euro was not manufactured using the aussie technology.
As far as I remember, the Australian banknotes are made partly with Swiss technology from Orell Füssli.
http://www.rba.gov.au/CurrencyNotes/...ntry_0401.html
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Old 20.03.2006, 15:12
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Re: OK now tell me what you LOVE about Switzerland

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The Swiss franc security features are cool, the letters along the note (A-H) actually refer to each feature. My fave is D: Hold the note up to the light and you can see the value through minute perforations.
I used to work at the company that makes the ink for banknotes, well about 90% of them anyway. There are way more security features on banknotes than you could ever imagine. On the CHF100 note (if I remember correctly, I don't have one on me to check) there is actually a poem written, you need to look quite closely to see it as it's pretty small. Richard is right about banknotes being made of cotton.

Lou
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Old 21.03.2006, 11:45
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Re: OK now tell me what you LOVE about Switzerland

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Actually, I am really suprised that the Euro was not manufactured using the aussie technology.
Well if you think about it, not really. Many countries licence this technology from Australia and I guess they save significant sums not just from the lack of counterfiet notes but they also save themselves the bother of endlessly reprinting notes to replace the notes that wear out in circulation. The Swiss franc is certainly an impressive note, but I would be willing to bet that the cost to the central bank to keep printing them is very high!

But getting back to my point about the Euro, I'm not surprised. Why not? I used to work for the institution that become the ECB (European Central Bank), and one of the members of the committee that made this decision used to be in one of my German classes. I asked him if an Australian delegation had been to visit them and what he thought of the plastic technology. His answer "we think paper is better". Real reason - the "not invented here" syndrome. The politics surrounding the printing of notes, security features etc was quite a circus. Basically it came down to protecting the jobs of the existing national central banks who were responsible for note production in their own countries. Not so curiously, note production is now farmed out to those guys, rather than being centralised.

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As far as I remember, the Australian banknotes are made partly with Swiss technology from Orell Füssli.
http://www.rba.gov.au/CurrencyNotes/...ntry_0401.html
We also shouldn't forget to credit the guy who invented the wheel - I'm sure there's a few of those in the process as well

Anyway - this is a bit off topic - sorry. Let's get back to discussing how great Switzerland is shall we?
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Old 21.03.2006, 16:15
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Re: OK now tell me what you LOVE about Switzerland

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On the CHF100 note (if I remember correctly, I don't have one on me to check) there is actually a poem written, you need to look quite closely to see it as it's pretty small. Richard is right about banknotes being made of cotton.

Lou
Actually on all the banks notes there is a text that is relevant to the person on the note. Lets look at the 50. On the face of the woman in the middle of her head there is a yellow box. There is the text. On the the 20 in the middle of his head there is a magenta diamond, there is the text and so it goes on for all the notes.

To the best of my knowledge the primary reason for using plastic or more correctly said polymer notes is to reduce costs - perversely... The principle is two fold. Firstly, that the note itself is more difficult to counterfeit because it is printed on polymer film (not actually true) therefore there is less of a need to have many and modern security protection and the second is that the notes last longer on average four times longer...

Richard
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Old 21.03.2006, 16:37
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Re: OK now tell me what you LOVE about Switzerland

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Actually, I am really suprised that the Euro was not manufactured using the aussie technology. The US could also take a lesson. Although the previous paper 100AUD note was a disaster, it was quite easily copied.
And so is the Aussie dollar. Take some thin foil the stuff you use for overheads and not the thick version thereof and do a fotocopy of an aussie note. If your copier is good so is the result... Try doing the same for a Euro note

Richard
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Old 21.03.2006, 17:40
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Re: OK now tell me what you LOVE about Switzerland

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And so is the Aussie dollar. Take some thin foil the stuff you use for overheads and not the thick version thereof and do a fotocopy of an aussie note. If your copier is good so is the result... Try doing the same for a Euro note

Richard
What good would it do to photocopy an aussie note? Sure - that would be a nice way to get the clear bit in the note, but the game will be up as soon as you touch the note - the texture and feel of the entire thing will be totally wrong, and you wouldn't even be able to fool anyone in the dark! Have you ever tried to the exercise you describe above (on an Aussie dollar). Since the euro is paper I would expect that the result would be even further from the real thing when using a transparency.
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Old 21.03.2006, 17:53
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Re: OK now tell me what you LOVE about Switzerland

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What good would it do to photocopy an aussie note? Sure - that would be a nice way to get the clear bit in the note, but the game will be up as soon as you touch the note - the texture and feel of the entire thing will be totally wrong, and you wouldn't even be able to fool anyone in the dark! Have you ever tried to the exercise you describe above (on an Aussie dollar). Since the euro is paper I would expect that the result would be even further from the real thing when using a transparency.
Hi Mark,

What you are trying to say is that they have the film but cheat you in believing the polymer is paper by the printing. And you are quite correct. As far as the copying of one of the things is concerned though you get a bloody good copy which is not the case on a Euro which comes out in stripes. Now if the secret of the Aussie dollar is in the printing which it is, you only need to have an offset printing machine to make perfect copies which is the point I was eluding to. And then you would not at first glance be able to tell.

Richard
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Old 21.03.2006, 17:57
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Re: OK now tell me what you LOVE about Switzerland

Richard, I don't think you understood the main point of my last post - TOUCH. It doesn't matter if it looks good or not, as soon as your hands touch it anybody would know it is fake. If you are convinced I'm wrong them send me one of your fakes and I'll tell you
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Old 21.03.2006, 18:04
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Re: OK now tell me what you LOVE about Switzerland

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Richard, I don't think you understood the main point of my last post - TOUCH. It doesn't matter if it looks good or not, as soon as your hands touch it anybody would know it is fake. If you are convinced I'm wrong them send me one of your fakes and I'll tell you
Mark, I fully understood your point. Sorry to be blunt but in Oz they start with a piece of plastic, thin and flat and featureless. They then print on it and the secret is in the printing. If you can copy the damned thing then you can print it. Well you can copy it so it is only a question of replicating the printing process which is a damned sight easier than the very visible holograms and the like that the rest of the world are doing. Now they are not sat on their arses these ozzies they are developing a hologram for the blank plastic hole. Problem is the notes are so durable that they are only half way through their lives. This is if you like an unforeseen problem...

btw just to show I understand your point texture. You can print texture though. Screen printing is the best example...
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Old 21.03.2006, 18:34
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Re: Banknotes

As I understand it the secret is in the printing process - I wouldn't say it is easy, or it would have been cracked. Yes they do start with a piece of plastic - but it is very thin and slippery. I just can't possibly see how you could come up with anything that approximates the feel of the notes using commercially available materials, especially with a colour copier and a few sheets of transparencies. But go ahead and send me one!

Do you still have any aussie dollars left from your trip? I'm guessing you haven't touched them for a while.
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Old 21.03.2006, 18:54
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Re: Banknotes

Well, this discussion proves I am not the only person on this forum suffering from some form of Aspergers Syndrome.
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Old 21.03.2006, 18:56
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Re: Banknotes

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As I understand it the secret is in the printing process - I wouldn't say it is easy, or it would have been cracked. Yes they do start with a piece of plastic - but it is very thin and slippery. I just can't possibly see how you could come up with anything that approximates the feel of the notes using commercially available materials, especially with a colour copier and a few sheets of transparencies. But go ahead and send me one!

Do you still have any aussie dollars left from your trip? I'm guessing you haven't touched them for a while.
Mark the copier comment is related to the fact you can copy and scan the things and therefore make a good picture so its "only" a case of cracking the printing process.
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Old 21.03.2006, 18:58
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Re: Banknotes

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Well, this discussion proves I am not the only person on this forum suffering from some form of Aspergers Syndrome.
I hate it when people make me go look something up in google

http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html
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Old 21.03.2006, 20:21
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Re: Banknotes

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I hate it when people make me go look something up in google

http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html
Basically, a common trait of this disorder is obsession with trivial details. Your average train or plane spotters are more classic examples. (No, am not a train or plane spotter....well...not anymore....I am better now..)
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Old 21.03.2006, 20:32
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Re: Banknotes

Have you got any more big and impressive not commonly used words to hand? I like Asparagus syndrome and can think of quite a few people to whom it fits
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Old 21.03.2006, 21:10
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Re: Banknotes

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Have you got any more big and impressive not commonly used words to hand? I like Asparagus syndrome and can think of quite a few people to whom it fits
No, thats pretty much my only one.

As, for asparagus, its that time of year again, isn't it?
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Old 21.03.2006, 22:12
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Re: Banknotes

Asparagus yes and we all know what that does to your "insert banned word here".
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