Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 24.11.2016, 10:26
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 6,779
Groaned at 194 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 11,520 Times in 4,752 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Quote:
View Post
(Things aren't helped by the second piece we're singing, another Te Deum, by Richter, a German baroque composer, in Latin, which also has Cherubims and Seraphims.)
[pedant hat]
Point of order -- 'cherubim' and 'seraphim' are already plural forms (of cherub and seraph, respectively); the words 'cherubims' and 'seraphims' don't exist.
[/pedant hat]

Now please carry on....
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #42  
Old 24.11.2016, 10:28
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 6,779
Groaned at 194 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 11,520 Times in 4,752 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Quote:
View Post
cherubim - At least they didn't want to pronounce it "tche - rub - em".

Think "-i" in "alumni". Do you think Romans talked like that? Hairier is the pronunciation of "Cicero".


American speakers learn an anglicized form of Latin, and defend it to death. Once I got into a heated argument with a lawyer friend over correct Latin pronunciation - me bringing evidence from other romantic languages, him saying this is how it's pronounced in the US. Can't fault his logic, can I.
Well, yeah, you can fault it -- I certainly would have. Not a lot of Latin was ever spoken in North America, if I recall my ancient history correctly.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 24.11.2016, 10:30
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Was Belgium now Neuchâtel
Posts: 8,897
Groaned at 63 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 11,473 Times in 5,373 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Quote:
View Post
Savoury is also würzig"
Really? I have never used or heard würzig used in that context. I thought würzig meant something a bit spicy.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 24.11.2016, 10:51
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 6,779
Groaned at 194 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 11,520 Times in 4,752 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Quote:
View Post
Really? I have never used or heard würzig used in that context. I thought würzig meant something a bit spicy.
I would have said spicy, or tasty. But something that is würzig can't be sweet, so in a way, it's a surrogate for savoury.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 24.11.2016, 11:56
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 10,140
Groaned at 84 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 16,319 Times in 6,302 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Quote:
View Post
I would have said spicy, or tasty. But something that is würzig can't be sweet, so in a way, it's a surrogate for savoury.
I've heard wines described as würzig. I always interpreted it to be that kind of deep herby, aromatic or full bodied.

Kind of the same kick you get with cinnamon.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post:
  #46  
Old 24.11.2016, 12:55
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 15,919
Groaned at 1,000 Times in 768 Posts
Thanked 40,910 Times in 12,736 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Quote:
View Post
[pedant hat]
Point of order -- 'cherubim' and 'seraphim' are already plural forms (of cherub and seraph, respectively); the words 'cherubims' and 'seraphims' don't exist.
[/pedant hat]

Now please carry on....
Context, dear boy! Catandmouse was referring to multiple instances of the words "cherubim" and "seraphim", not actual cherubim and seraphim. In this case it is perfectly acceptable to say that there are "cherubims" and "seraphims" in a text.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #47  
Old 24.11.2016, 13:39
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 6,053
Groaned at 46 Times in 43 Posts
Thanked 8,763 Times in 3,913 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Quote:
View Post
In my Swiss choir, we are 4 English (fortunately no Americans as that would have confused things even more) and are currently singing the Handel Te Deum. Came along a long discussion on the pronounciation of "Cherubim".
We all four made it quite clear that the initial "Ch" was not pronounced "K", as some of the remaining 60 members of the choir wanted to do.
Things got trickier around the "u" with variations amongst the 4 of us between "oo" and "euh". Sorry, I'm no good at phonetics, but I hope you get the gist of it.
So even 4 native British-English speakers, presumably each of us with different backgrounds in singing and Latin, couldn't reach agreement. What do you expect the poor Swiss to do?
Considering Cherubim is Hebrew, it is a Chuchichästli Ch.
As Italian (see video bellow) is close to Latin then the Che has the sound as in Chiasso or Porchetta, a soft k.

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #48  
Old 24.11.2016, 14:55
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 6,779
Groaned at 194 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 11,520 Times in 4,752 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Quote:
View Post
Context, dear boy! Catandmouse was referring to multiple instances of the words "cherubim" and "seraphim", not actual cherubim and seraphim. In this case it is perfectly acceptable to say that there are "cherubims" and "seraphims" in a text.
Plausible... and neatly retrofittable to catandmouse's post.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 24.11.2016, 15:01
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 6,779
Groaned at 194 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 11,520 Times in 4,752 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Quote:
View Post
Considering Cherubim is Hebrew, it is a Chuchichästli Ch.
As Italian (see video bellow) is close to Latin then the Che has the sound as in Chiasso or Porchetta, a soft k.

Someone will probably point out the gap in my knowledge, but I don't think there are any words with the "ch" combination in Latin. So regardless of whether they exist in Italian, and of how "ch" is pronounced in successor languages, there's no way to pronounce it in Latin.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 24.11.2016, 15:24
Captain Greybeard's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sarganserland / NW Lower Peninsula of NE US Midwest
Posts: 3,311
Groaned at 40 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 6,796 Times in 2,137 Posts
Captain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Quote:
View Post
Someone will probably point out the gap in my knowledge, but I don't think there are any words with the "ch" combination in Latin. So regardless of whether they exist in Italian, and of how "ch" is pronounced in successor languages, there's no way to pronounce it in Latin.
Non scholæ sed vitæ discimus.

By the way, Seneca the Younger actually wrote it the other way 'round.

Besides that, there are lots of other Greek words containing "ch" in Latin (scholé actually is Greek too and means leisure time (!!!)). But since literate Romans were meant to be fluent in Greek, of course they would never have pronounced it the modern English way.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Captain Greybeard for this useful post:
  #51  
Old 24.11.2016, 15:28
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: CH
Posts: 313
Groaned at 7 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 223 Times in 116 Posts
Serk has earned the respect of manySerk has earned the respect of manySerk has earned the respect of many
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Quote:
View Post
Someone will probably point out the gap in my knowledge, but I don't think there are any words with the "ch" combination in Latin. So regardless of whether they exist in Italian, and of how "ch" is pronounced in successor languages, there's no way to pronounce it in Latin.
Well, there's something called dictionary. Have a look at it and tell us whether there's a ch digraph or not
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 24.11.2016, 18:53
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 3,885
Groaned at 81 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 6,241 Times in 2,296 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Quote:
View Post
Hmm, thanks so much ...

I'm currently in Mexico, and it's so difficult for the Mexicans to pronounce Wayne that I almost decided to call myself Pablo (my middle name is Paul), just to save everyone from the hassle of trying to get their tongues around Wayne (there is no Spanish equivalent for Wayne).

Is there a close of approximation of Wayne in German?
Me Raymond went over two years in Mexico being called "Ramon" I didn´t mind as I was also considered a Chillango autentico.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 24.11.2016, 22:34
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 205
Groaned at 25 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 56 Times in 43 Posts
simpa is considered unworthysimpa is considered unworthysimpa is considered unworthysimpa is considered unworthy
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Thank you man , i never noticed that before ! i made now test to my Swiss partner and damn for the first time i realized she is saying W instead of V in the english words !
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 25.11.2016, 07:46
omtatsat's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Timbuktoo/Zürich
Posts: 4,147
Groaned at 458 Times in 245 Posts
Thanked 1,382 Times in 886 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

the OP should be in language corner admin
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 25.11.2016, 10:06
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Mies
Posts: 564
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 341 Times in 209 Posts
catandmouse has earned some respectcatandmouse has earned some respect
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

It is true that Italian is probably the language closest to Latin, but it is doubtful that modern Italian is pronounced the way it was pronounced 400 years ago and is probably even more remote from Latin. And if you doubt, just think what's happened to "Olde English" in that time and particularly what our North American friends have done to the language.
I apologize sincerely to the OP whose thread has been totally hijacked
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 25.11.2016, 10:51
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: CH
Posts: 313
Groaned at 7 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 223 Times in 116 Posts
Serk has earned the respect of manySerk has earned the respect of manySerk has earned the respect of many
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Just as a side note, for those who are interested in languages, amongst many, sprachbund and koineization are interesting concepts to investigate.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 25.11.2016, 12:35
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bubikon
Posts: 13
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
russandjilly has no particular reputation at present
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

My family name is Lewell - in English pronounced Loo-Ell, but whenever speaking in German I always pronounce LEVEL, as it helps them get the spelling right. My American bosses find it hilarious.....
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 25.11.2016, 12:51
hannah'sauntie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Baden
Posts: 4,511
Groaned at 25 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 6,171 Times in 2,797 Posts
hannah'sauntie has a reputation beyond reputehannah'sauntie has a reputation beyond reputehannah'sauntie has a reputation beyond reputehannah'sauntie has a reputation beyond reputehannah'sauntie has a reputation beyond reputehannah'sauntie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Quote:
View Post
My family name is Lewell - in English pronounced Loo-Ell, but whenever speaking in German I always pronounce LEVEL, as it helps them get the spelling right. My American bosses find it hilarious.....
Hubby does similar.
There is a soft g in the middle of our surname, and he always pronounces it with a hard g for the same reason.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 25.11.2016, 14:30
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Mies
Posts: 564
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 341 Times in 209 Posts
catandmouse has earned some respectcatandmouse has earned some respect
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

I lived for 3 years in Germany and discovered that Germans have a psychological block. It is impossible for Germans to write an "S" followed by an "H" without putting a "C" in between. I used to systematically spell my name "S, H ohne C ....". and it would still end up getting misspelt half the time (and then mispronounced when by chance it got spelt correctly).
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 25.11.2016, 14:44
EastEnders's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Biel/Bienne
Posts: 1,545
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 1,835 Times in 730 Posts
EastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

The one thing I'd like to know, is how do you pronunce surnames with double consonants at the beginning.

Such as Llewellyn or Fforde for example.

Or Audrey fforbes-Hamilton from to the Manor Born , is the first or second consonant silent or does it get pronounced, and if so, how?

These are details that do not come across well via lipreading......
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swiss Constitution in English cyrus Swiss politics/news 2 15.10.2012 17:50
Grammar and pronunciation question kiwiguy08 Language corner 93 10.03.2009 17:58
French pronunciation help Phos Language corner 3 20.06.2008 18:49
[German] ä pronunciation Lou Language corner 12 16.10.2006 22:31
[German] Basic pronunciation guide mark Language corner 0 03.09.2006 20:03


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:57.

Comparis

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0