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Old 06.03.2009, 18:30
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Comagic twins - deportation [& general discussion re: asylum & immigration]

Has anyone been following the story of the Comagic family from Serbia who are due to be deported from Switzerland after their bid for asyulm failed despite having lived here for the last 15 years?
Is this just? And how come it took the Swiss authorities so long to finally decide to deport them?
So what do EF members think of this?
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Old 06.03.2009, 18:44
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

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Has anyone been following the story of the Comagic family from Serbia who are due to be deported from Switzerland after their bid for asyulm failed despite having lived here for the last 15 years?
Is this just? And how come it took the Swiss authorities so long to finally decide to deport them?
So what do EF members think of this?
Well, the problem is not with the twins, but the mother. She had to go back to Serbia and divorced her (then) husband. A little while later she married with a Swiss, as did her ex-husband. They came back to CH but never lived with their new partners, but moved together again.... Not sure what the word is (if there is one) for "Scheinehe" - a false marriage... the movie green card comes to mind.

That is the whole reason for them to be deported - acquiring a Visa/permit under false pretenses. Now, one can draw out legal processes veeery long in Switzerland, that's why it has been going on for years and years.

--- That's the story as far as I know, or think to know.

Of course the girls have grown up here, so I do not see a reason to have them deported at all... on the other hand, how can you say that this person can stay while others who have obeyed the law must leave... not an easy one... opinions anyone?
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Old 06.03.2009, 18:48
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

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Has anyone been following the story of the Comagic family from Serbia who are due to be deported from Switzerland after their bid for asyulm failed despite having lived here for the last 15 years?
Is this just? And how come it took the Swiss authorities so long to finally decide to deport them?
So what do EF members think of this?
I this it is really crazy and outrageous to keep someone on asylum without concluding the case sooner. Whomever are responsible for putting a stamp on their case or writing procedures they must have had a screw loosened in their head.
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Old 06.03.2009, 18:53
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

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I this it is really crazy and outrageous to keep someone on asylum without concluding the case sooner. Whomever are responsible for putting a stamp on their case or writing procedures they must have had a screw loosened in their head.
Umh, actually they were to be deported years ago, but you can take legal steps, take it higher up and win some time...that's what they did.
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Old 06.03.2009, 18:58
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

OTOH, enforcing short decision processes can lead to equally unfair decisions under the pressure of time.

Hard cases make bad law. In my view the injustice to the twins is entirely and absolutely the fault of the parents. Not the authorities. Though it would be nice if the authorities would show mercy - perhaps arranging for the twins to stay while their parents are deported...
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Old 06.03.2009, 19:00
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

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Umh, actually they were to be deported years ago, but you can take legal steps, take it higher up and win some time...that's what they did.
Not that I disagree with immigration laws here but I do not favour asylum practices either. I know somebody personally who had to go thru this process and it is one heck of the **** to deal with.

On the other hand people like playing the games just to win some time... which is also worth contmept. From selfrightousness point of view just dislike the fact that somebody has to go thru lots of this nonesense and at the end of the day still be on the loosing side. That's all.
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Old 06.03.2009, 19:05
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

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Has anyone been following the story of the Comagic family from Serbia who are due to be deported from Switzerland after their bid for asyulm failed despite having lived here for the last 15 years?
Is this just? And how come it took the Swiss authorities so long to finally decide to deport them?
So what do EF members think of this?
I did not follow the whole story, but our german teacher (I go to german conversation classes) made copies of the article in the newspaper for us.
We then had to read it, and discuss what we think of it. I personally think that the twins should be allowed to stay in Switzerland. I am not so certain what the mom did wrong, whatever she did, it is not the fault of the children. The one girl even found a "Lehrstelle" and these girls have been here in Switzerland since they were 18 months of age. PLEASE LET THEM STAY. This is just how I feel. I also have a 15 year old, my heart goes out to these girls.
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Old 06.03.2009, 19:12
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

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Though it would be nice if the authorities would show mercy - perhaps arranging for the twins to stay while their parents are deported...
The justice of Solomon eh?
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Old 06.03.2009, 19:23
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

I think what is really wrong here is that this case has been allowed to go on for so long. These girls will find it really hard to adapt to life back in Serbia.

On the other hand immigration law has to apply equally for all.

How about letting the family stay until the girls are 18, and then deporting only the mother?
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Old 06.03.2009, 19:32
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

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I think what is really wrong here is that this case has been allowed to go on for so long. These girls will find it really hard to adapt to life back in Serbia.

On the other hand immigration law has to apply equally for all.

How about letting the family stay until the girls are 18, and then deporting only the mother?
I agree, the mother will have her husband back in Serbia and the girls will live their lifes here in Switzerland, the place where they went to school and where their friends are.
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  #11  
Old 06.03.2009, 20:59
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

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Has anyone been following the story of the Comagic family from Serbia who are due to be deported from Switzerland after their bid for asyulm failed despite having lived here for the last 15 years?
Is this just? And how come it took the Swiss authorities so long to finally decide to deport them?
So what do EF members think of this?
I too am not familiar with this case, although I am intimate with the process in determination for protection / asylum.

Were they to be given a reprieve, it would send a wrong message that illegal migration, abusing the asylum process and being deceptive is alright i.e. two wrongs do make a right.

They are quite fortunate IMHO for having that privilege of being in CH for 15 years, integrated with language, business and education, legal assistance and presumably not having been arrested quite unlike the vast majority of asylum seekers who have had their case summarily rejected ( illegal migration under the guise of asylum ) and deported without the privilege of being able to return home to divorce and come back to remarry in a marriage of convenience.

No doubt, they will have the IOM and Red Cross' assistance in resettling in Serbia ( financial and other long term benefits ) when readjusting to presumably a more difficult life back at home but it does not mean they cannot return to CH to continue education, business and other activities as any other legal migrant is entitled to do so.

The BFM is very careful ( hence the long determination times as they are aided by only 25 researchers ) before it rejects a claim including manifestly unfounded ones especially in the light of the few recent cases that caused death whilst attempting to deport.

The cantons ( Aliens' Police ) are then tasked to execute the deportation orders including arrests as the claimant loses all ID papers - becomiung what is known as sans papier. Today, rejectees are unable to enter into a marriage of convenience.

It is at the cantonal level that there is a delay by challenging deportation orders - not a cheap exercise to go to court, including at the European level to contest for rights and entitlements, including that under CROC ( family rights ).

If they have lost out challenging Switzerland at EU courts publicly without merit or legal basis, there is really no legal basis at cantonal level or at federal level for a residence permit other than bending or breaking existing Swiss rules / laws.

Just my two rappen.
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Old 06.03.2009, 21:10
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

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.

The BFM is very careful ( hence the long determination times as they are aided by only 25 researchers ) before it rejects a claim
25 researchers to deal with asylum claims for the entire country? That is shockingly few!
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Old 06.03.2009, 21:24
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

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25 researchers to deal with asylum claims for the entire country? That is shockingly few!
Six determination officers are aided by 25 researchers ( excluding Swiss mission personnel abroad ) looking into some 10,000 odd claims.

Most cases do not meet legal requirements ie individual or personalised persecution must be suffered by the claimant or have to be rejected ( following the Geneva Convention which provides only 5 grounds for persecution ) or granted an F permit instead ( Swiss domestic laws provision by both Federal and at Cantonal level provide temporary stay until they can be sent back or reconsidered for permanency on the basis of demonstrated hardship ).

Of the remaining cases, they are looked into more closely as they might appear to be candidate for a B permit ( residence ) in accordance to international practice.

Coming back to the Comagic family, it is unclear if they ever got an F permit. They apparently failed to demonstrate hardship to the Cantonal authorities.
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Old 16.07.2009, 11:57
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

Well, old thread but good news - the twins and their mother should now be allowed to stay. As the twins were considered children before but now reached their 16 Birthdays, the focus of their request has changed from the mother to them and the Zurich court decided that a permit should be issued...
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Old 16.07.2009, 13:55
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

How Serbians can apply for political asylum is still beyond me. I am aware that the whole process is much older but how can people be granted asylum in Switzerland while the Schengen states consider Visa-free travel for precisely these countries ?
http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/schwei...1.3053353.html
If they have a work permit and a job here, fine, let them stay. But I see no reason whatsoever why to continue with the abuse of a, at least in theory, humanitarian asylum system. And I feel it's wrong to have biased decisions depending on the sympathy of the Swiss people. If the parents have blatantly abused our system they should have been deported a very long time ago. Dragging it on for years and then claiming "they let us stay this long and now they want to deport us ? evil system!" .. the nerve.

edit: Bring the groans on Don't be shy, I'm used to it.
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Old 16.07.2009, 14:07
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

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How Serbians can apply for political asylum is still beyond me. I am aware that the whole process is much older but how can people be granted asylum in Switzerland while the Schengen states consider Visa-free travel for precisely these countries ?
http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/schwei...1.3053353.html
If they have a work permit and a job here, fine, let them stay. But I see no reason whatsoever why to continue with the abuse of a, at least in theory, humanitarian asylum system. And I feel it's wrong to have biased decisions depending on the sympathy of the Swiss people. If the parents have blatantly abused our system they should have been deported a very long time ago. Dragging it on for years and then claiming "they let us stay this long and now they want to deport us ? evil system!" .. the nerve.

edit: Bring the groans on Don't be shy, I'm used to it.
Actually you have a point, but I am still very happy the twins can stay. I do not really care too much about the mother, she was naughty, and the girls had nothing to do with that.
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Old 16.07.2009, 14:29
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

It just once again sets a very bad precedence case, abusing a system gets rewarded.
I just think we tolerate far too much abuse from foreigners in any field, asylum abuse, living off social systems (43%), criminality (71% foreign prisoners) etc.
All the while it's incredibly difficult for non-Schengen nationals to find a job and live legally in Switzerland. We reward the bad and ward off the good.
I symphatise with the twins personally, but don't agree with the decision at all. This case alone cost Swiss taxpayers a 6 digit chf amount, I find it completely inacceptable.
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Old 16.07.2009, 14:37
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

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Well, old thread but good news - the twins and their mother should now be allowed to stay. As the twins were considered children before but now reached their 16 Birthdays, the focus of their request has changed from the mother to them and the Zurich court decided that a permit should be issued...
Excellent, this is really good news!
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Old 16.07.2009, 14:38
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

I agree that this case should have been concluded long ago into YES or NO without resorting to "killing me softly with this song". Eventually they were allowed to stay but taxpayers must have coughed up for this tedious process big time
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Old 16.07.2009, 14:42
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Re: Comagic twins - deportation

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Eventually they were allowed to stay but taxpayers must have coughed up for this tedious process big time
Agree, the process was waayy too long and complicated, but then again I kind of feel happy thinking of Simon, Mörgeli et al and how pissed off they must be... gives you that warm feeling inside, y'know...
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