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-   -   How to legally employ a cleaning lady/domestic help (https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-life/63046-how-legally-employ-cleaning-lady-domestic-help.html)

cinzia_t 29.09.2009 21:50

How to legally employ a cleaning lady/domestic help
 
Dear all,

I am a full working mum, struggling with work, child and home duties. So before I turn mad, I decided to hire a cleaning lady. I found a perfect one, however she is not self employed, which means that I had to take care of some of the burocracy with hiring a person. I am totally against black work and find unethical not to give to someone who does the dirty job for you, what he/she is entitled to. Furthermore, it is good to make things in a proper way as employees might be friendly and accommodating and will say to you that they want to work “black” because they do not want to pay taxes and do not care about contributions. But things can change, you might not need his/her support anymore, etc. They might get angry and go to a lawyer and they are not friendly anymore. This really hurts!
I tried to find this kind of info in EF or over the internet but, even if there are things concerning this argument that are well clarified, I found nothing that explains how to proceed to sort things out from the beginning! So I went through a long “learning” process and would like to share this with you.
1. Get an ACCIDENT INSURANCE. In case you hire a person for up to 8 hours a week you just have to provide a WORK ACCIDENT INSURANCE. Most companies have cheap and simple packages that cover that for your household (I could get one for 100 CHF a year). In case you hire someone for more time, then you should provide a complete accident insurance. You can find a list of approved insurance companies here: www.bag.admin.ch/themen/versicherung/00321/index.html?lang=it.

2. REGISTER WITH THE LOCAL AUSGLEICHKASSE. Find that of your canton in the list here: www.avs-ai.info,. Most of the information and the application forms are available over the internet, however if you do not understand and need clarification just give them a call: in Basel they were very friendly. In order to register you need the details of the person you are hiring, including AHV number. In case he/she does not have it yet, it can be requested using the appropriate application form. Include the insurance certificate to your application.

3. BE PREPARED TO PAY CONTRIBUTION. A part is paid by you and one by the employee. Make sure that you deduct the employee part from his/her salary accordingly. If you agreed on a net salary, adjust it accordingly. Whilst the contribution for AHV and Unemployment insurance is fixed (5.05% and 1% per part), some canton will require the employer to provide contributions against Family allowance (e.g. 1.85% in BS) and Administrative costs (3% of the AHV contribution, not the salary!). Just to provide you an example if the net salary is 25 CHF you have to consider a gross salary of 26.60 CHF and then deduct 1.35 CHF for the AHV contribution part and 0.25 CHF for the unemployment contribution part. The total paid by the employee is 1.60 CHF (so that when you deduct you will have a net salary of CHF 25.00. Regarding the employer side, you will have to pay CHF 1.60/hour as your employee + Family allowance contribution + Handling cost contribution. This sums up in Canton BS to a total of 2.20 CHF for the employer.

4. PREPARE A WORKING CONTRACT. You can find several examples over the internet. However I found this one the best: http://www.topcombi.ch/_topcombi/_pdf/Arbeitsvertrag.pdf. Make sure that you state the Vacation contribution (8.33%) in the hourly rate. So if the hourly rate is 25.00 CHF net, and 26.60 CHF gross, write in the contract that you are paying 24.56 CHF of salary and 2.04 CHF of vacation contribution. In this way, everything will be included in the salary and you will not have to pay vacation periods. In case you are going to pay his/her vacation period, you will have to provide 4 weeks paid a year. State in the contract its length. what are his/her duties, the working hours, etc.

5. PAY CONTRIBUTION: Once a year you will send to the Ausgleichkasse a list of all the payments you did to your employee, and they will send to you a payment slip! Just (so to say!!!) pay it and everything is in order! You will be in order with local and national authorities and your employee will be insured and will have a pension for the old age!

As I said this is how I learned it works. I will keep you posted in case I missed or misunderstood something.

Patxi 29.09.2009 21:53

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Thanks for that. However, I do miss the good old days of being able to hire a ski bum or college student for a few hours of work a week and not having to worry about this crap.

Goldtop 29.09.2009 22:03

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cinzia_t (Post 563988)
Dear all,

I am a full working mum, struggling with work, child and home duties. So before I turn mad, I decided to hire a cleaning lady. I found a perfect one, however she is not self employed, which means that I had to take care of some of the burocracy with hiring a person. I am totally against black work and find unethical not to give to someone who does the dirty job for you, what he/she is entitled to. Furthermore, it is good to make things in a proper way as employees might be friendly and accommodating and will say to you that they want to work “black” because they do not want to pay taxes and do not care about contributions. But things can change, you might not need his/her support anymore, etc. They might get angry and go to a lawyer and they are not friendly anymore. This really hurts!
I tried to find this kind of info in EF or over the internet but, even if there are things concerning this argument that are well clarified, I found nothing that explains how to proceed to sort things out from the beginning! So I went through a long “learning” process and would like to share this with you.
1. Get an ACCIDENT INSURANCE. In case you hire a person for up to 8 hours a week you just have to provide a WORK ACCIDENT INSURANCE. Most companies have cheap and simple packages that cover that for your household (I could get one for 100 CHF a year). In case you hire someone for more time, then you should provide a complete accident insurance. You can find a list of approved insurance companies here: www.bag.admin.ch/themen/versicherung/00321/index.html?lang=it.

2. REGISTER WITH THE LOCAL AUSGLEICHKASSE. Find that of your canton in the list here: www.avs-ai.info,. Most of the information and the application forms are available over the internet, however if you do not understand and need clarification just give them a call: in Basel they were very friendly. In order to register you need the details of the person you are hiring, including AHV number. In case he/she does not have it yet, it can be requested using the appropriate application form. Include the insurance certificate to your application.

3. BE PREPARED TO PAY CONTRIBUTION. A part is paid by you and one by the employee. Make sure that you deduct the employee part from his/her salary accordingly. If you agreed on a net salary, adjust it accordingly. Whilst the contribution for AHV and Unemployment insurance is fixed (5.05% and 1% per part), some canton will require the employer to provide contributions against Family allowance (e.g. 1.85% in BS) and Administrative costs (3% of the AHV contribution, not the salary!). Just to provide you an example if the net salary is 25 CHF you have to consider a gross salary of 26.60 CHF and then deduct 1.35 CHF for the AHV contribution part and 0.25 CHF for the unemployment contribution part. The total paid by the employee is 1.60 CHF (so that when you deduct you will have a net salary of CHF 25.00. Regarding the employer side, you will have to pay CHF 1.60/hour as your employee + Family allowance contribution + Handling cost contribution. This sums up in Canton BS to a total of 2.20 CHF for the employer.

4. PREPARE A WORKING CONTRACT. You can find several examples over the internet. However I found this one the best: http://www.topcombi.ch/_topcombi/_pdf/Arbeitsvertrag.pdf. Make sure that you state the Vacation contribution (8.33%) in the hourly rate. So if the hourly rate is 25.00 CHF net, and 26.60 CHF gross, write in the contract that you are paying 24.56 CHF of salary and 2.04 CHF of vacation contribution. In this way, everything will be included in the salary and you will not have to pay vacation periods. In case you are going to pay his/her vacation period, you will have to provide 4 weeks paid a year. State in the contract its length. what are his/her duties, the working hours, etc.

5. PAY CONTRIBUTION: Once a year you will send to the Ausgleichkasse a list of all the payments you did to your employee, and they will send to you a payment slip! Just (so to say!!!) pay it and everything is in order! You will be in order with local and national authorities and your employee will be insured and will have a pension for the old age!

As I said this is how I learned it works. I will keep you posted in case I missed or misunderstood something.

Excellent instructions!

You might want to include:
  • 2.27% "FeiertagsEntschädigung" (that is for public holidays), plus the mentioned
  • 8.83% "FerienEntschädigung" (in lieu of vacations)

Crumbs 29.09.2009 22:14

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
This is also a good site for information (www.keine-schwarzarbeit.ch).

Unfortunately, it's only in G/F/I - but perhaps if you mail them you can get info in English. And, I assume, the more people who request info in English, the sooner they'll put up an English translation... who knows.

Guest 29.09.2009 22:27

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Just to reiterate on the original post, with Topcombi ( only written in German and French at this stage, if you telephone, English is of course available), you will get all the help, information and support you need, to engage an employee, of any kind, for any length of time.

They are excellent, they truly know thier stuff and are extremely friendly and relaxed with it.
They take the big stress out of all the beurocratic shite, which is necessary for both sides (even those that don't think they need/want to go that way).

All sides are protected and for the employer, it makes it so much easier, as they will deal with all the paperwork, apart from the initial contact and details of course.

The only thing I find a little odd is, they send the end of the taxation year statement, to the employer, not the employee, which is not a big deal in itself and probably has a reason ( I just don't see it yet), you have only to forward it to the employee.

They truly do a good job.

benedine 05.02.2012 13:27

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Thanks - this is all really good info. If i find anything has changed since original post I will post new info. Hopefully getting a contract for my childminder sorted out this week. Seems a bit daunting to be honest but hopefully it won't be too bad.

Faltrad 05.02.2012 13:50

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Legal cleaning help can be hired through an agency. The person works for them, not for you, so that you aren't employer, you are just the client of the service offered. It saves the administration part. It is always the same cleaning person who comes.
I chose this solution, it costs me CHF 36 an hour.

Dantesheaven 05.02.2012 14:03

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldtop (Post 564005)
Excellent instructions!

Indeed, excellent....

My reaction to this is "OMG!!!" especially as I was about to look for one. All of that administrative overhead in order to pay someone a few hundred CHFies a month to wash floors and iron shirts...no way. Perhaps I'm overdoing it a bit but it seems I would spend as nearly as much time administering as if I would keep doing the work myself

Is there a way in CH to legally write the contract so that this person is self-employeed and is responsible for all taxes and governmental filings, or would that only work if they have registered themselves as a business?

Sbrinz 05.02.2012 14:23

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dantesheaven (Post 1477848)
Indeed, excellent....

My reaction to this is "OMG!!!" especially as I was about to look for one. All of that administrative overhead in order to pay someone a few hundred CHFies a month to wash floors and iron shirts...no way. Perhaps I'm overdoing it a bit but it seems I would spend as nearly as much time administering as if I would keep doing the work myself

Is there a way in CH to legally write the contract so that this person is self-employeed and is responsible for all taxes and governmental filings, or would that only work if they have registered themselves as a business?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faltrad (Post 1477841)
Legal cleaning help can be hired through an agency. The person works for them, not for you, so that you aren't employer, you are just the client of the service offered. It saves the administration part. It is always the same cleaning person who comes.
I chose this solution, it costs me CHF 36 an hour.

There you go! Hire someone from a Swiss agency.

Rangatiranui 05.02.2012 14:31

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Faltrad (Post 1477841)
I chose this solution, it costs me CHF 36 an hour.

:eek:

(if that is all i have to say, why do i have to say more, and waste everyones time?)

yacek 05.02.2012 14:45

Cinzia_t, how about taxes? You haven't mentioned them. I wonder if/what amount it is.

Faltrad 05.02.2012 14:53

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangatiranui (Post 1477871)
:eek:

(if that is all i have to say, why do i have to say more, and waste everyones time?)

I really don't see how you could pay less than that for a decent pay check for the cleaning help to live on in Switzerland and for admin fees. I want a good pay in CH, so I can't refuse it to other people working here.

Mica 05.02.2012 16:08

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Since the thread has been bumped up.
The website http://quitt.ch/ takes care of the administrative hassle...

Mica 05.02.2012 16:10

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dantesheaven (Post 1477848)
Is there a way in CH to legally write the contract so that this person is self-employed and is responsible for all taxes and governmental filings, or would that only work if they have registered themselves as a business?

Nope! They would actually have to be self-employed.

cinzia_t 05.02.2012 16:21

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Regarding taxes, in Basel Stadt there is no need for a home employer to care of Quellensteuer. The cleaner should take care him-herself I suppose. I have heard that this does not apply in other cantons though!
I also have to add to the original thread that in 2011 the contribution for AHV and unemployment has risen of 0.2% each, that shall be taken into account as well.

Rangatiranui 05.02.2012 21:03

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Faltrad (Post 1477890)
I really don't see how you could pay less than that for a decent pay check for the cleaning help to live on in Switzerland and for admin fees. I want a good pay in CH, so I can't refuse it to other people working here.

You know that he/she doesn't get chf 36/hr...

Those that I know, get between 25-28 chf/hr. So about CHF 20 in the hand. I am amazed that these admin fees cost 9chf/hour. I am guessing that because the cleaner is with a company, they will also be offered less than if they were to organise their own work.

Having a short look through some websites such as this one, also shows people offering between 20-30chf/hr.

T'is just interesting, thats all...
And of course legal. And probably better for both parties to have a go-between.

Faltrad 05.02.2012 23:33

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangatiranui (Post 1478193)
You know that he/she doesn't get chf 36/hr...

She gets 32. If you prefer to employ yourself, go for it.

Simon4 14.02.2012 14:40

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cinzia_t (Post 1477939)
Regarding taxes, in Basel Stadt there is no need for a home employer to care of Quellensteuer. The cleaner should take care him-herself I suppose. I have heard that this does not apply in other cantons though!
I also have to add to the original thread that in 2011 the contribution for AHV and unemployment has risen of 0.2% each, that shall be taken into account as well.

This information is not exactly accurate about the Quellensteuer.
Only if the employee is a Swiss citizen or has a C permit, then no source tax has to be paid (there are a few exceptions where B permit also does not require Quellensteuer).
Another exception is if your employee lives accross the border in France, then indeed you don't have to pay Quellensteuer for him/her, because Basel-Stadt has an agreement with France that in this case, the employee has to pay taxes in France.
In all other cases, a home employer still has to take care of the Quellensteuer.
Similar rules for workers that live in France apply to other cantons like AG, BL, BE, JU, NE, SO, VD, VS.

Simon4 14.02.2012 14:59

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangatiranui (Post 1478193)
You know that he/she doesn't get chf 36/hr...

Those that I know, get between 25-28 chf/hr. So about CHF 20 in the hand. I am amazed that these admin fees cost 9chf/hour. I am guessing that because the cleaner is with a company, they will also be offered less than if they were to organise their own work.

Having a short look through some websites such as this one, also shows people offering between 20-30chf/hr.

T'is just interesting, thats all...
And of course legal. And probably better for both parties to have a go-between.

Since Mica already mentioned our service, for those who are interested in a calculator which shows what you pay and what the cleaning lady gets, see http://quitt.ch/Info/WageCalculator.aspx (leave out the commission if you intend to do the whole clearing yourself).
As an example, if you want your cleaner to have CHF 32.- on the hand (net wage), the minimum you have to pay as an employer is CHF 39.15 for Zurich.

easytime 19.11.2016 10:15

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
There is also an other very often unknown option:


Ask a local Headhunter and tell them that you'd like to employ Mrs / Mr XYZ for whatever Job. The Headhunter Office will then do the complete payroll covering all legal issues and charge you for the person you employ.
The advantage is that you are not legally responsable for the employment - but of course that will cost you a few percents....

sarahndipity 02.05.2017 15:58

Re: How to legally employ a cleaning lady
 
Thank you very much for your post! You've got wealth of information here - much appreciated!

schmetterlingbaby 21.06.2017 09:00

Information about how to hire a domestic
 
We are planning to hire a domestic helper. I would like to know who I can contact in Zurich to have more information about hours work regulation and contract for a domestic helper. Is there a specific office in Kanton Zurich or an association where I could ask for those information?

Helm 21.06.2017 09:04

Re: Information about how to hire a domestic
 
https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...ning-lady.html

roegner 21.06.2017 09:05

Re: Information about how to hire a domestic
 
https://www.haushaltshilfen24.ch/pre...vat-anstellen/

Guest 21.06.2017 13:24

Re: Information about how to hire a domestic
 
Quitt.ch offers a similar service, some English

The sva Zurich is the government institution.....info@svazurich.ch is their email.

I've spoken to them a few times, they might be helpful.

First time you do it, quitt or the other service are very helpful. They are also great for multiple employees.

Medea Fleecestealer 21.06.2017 13:45

Re: Information about how to hire a domestic
 
http://www.perfectway.ch/fileadmin/d...AV/Zuerich.pdf

Urs Max 21.06.2017 16:48

Re: Information about how to hire a domestic
 
mamiexpress.ch

They cooperate with AOZ Zürich, the public agency on migration and integration. They also help with the employees personal budgets, provide language courses (presumably via AOZ Zürich), employ people with handicaps (that don't influence quality of results), etc.

schmetterlingbaby 29.06.2017 21:11

Re: Information about how to hire a domestic
 
Thank you for all the information. Does anyone knows who could offer a similar service as Quitt.ch does? I have contacted them , but the employee on the phone was very rude and not helpful.

ZuriRollt 29.06.2017 21:21

Re: Information about how to hire a domestic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by schmetterlingbaby (Post 2809919)
Thank you for all the information. Does anyone knows who could offer a similar service as Quitt.ch does? I have contacted them , but the employee on the phone was very rude and not helpful.

Perhaps your approach was not optimal (P.S. I also find your terminology derogatory).

Look for the relevant threads on this forum, as well as information on the employment conditions you must provide in Switzerland.

poot 29.06.2017 22:18

Re: Information about how to hire a domestic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuriRollt (Post 2809926)
Perhaps your approach was not optimal (P.S. I also find your terminology derogatory).

Look for the relevant threads on this forum, as well as information on the employment conditions you must provide in Switzerland.

Would you also find it inappropriate to ask for a black coffee? :msncrazy:

Domestic helper is not derogatory at all, and is in fact universally used to avoid words like maid.

ZuriRollt 29.06.2017 22:35

Re: Information about how to hire a domestic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by poot (Post 2809971)
Would you also find it inappropriate to ask for a black coffee? :msncrazy:

Domestic helper is not derogatory at all, and is in fact universally used to avoid words like maid.

No idea - I have no idea what "maid" means, so, I'll look it up.
Ah, here we are, pretty boring:

Attachment 126765

ZuriRollt 29.06.2017 22:41

Re: Information about how to hire a domestic
 
There were so many on EF this week, but I need to work from the office tomorrow (no social media contact) so will have to postpone.

speakeron 29.06.2017 22:47

Re: Information about how to hire a domestic
 
You're going to need more than one. Basically, you need:

- butler
- footman (actually two)
- cook
- scullery maid
- parlour maid
- chamber maid

You'll do well to remember that Daisy, if you wish to remain in service here.

aSwissInTheUS 29.06.2017 23:03

Re: Information about how to hire a domestic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by speakeron (Post 2809983)
You're going to need more than one. Basically, you need:

- butler
- footman (actually two)
- cook
- scullery maid
- parlour maid
- chamber maid

You'll do well to remember that Daisy, if you wish to remain in service here.

- gardener
- green keeper
- game keeper
- chauffeur
- stable boy
- pool boy
- hall boy
- nursemaid
- wet nurse
- lackey
- valet
also some henchmen
and finally a dungeon keeper

Here SVA Zurich on the topic https://www.svazurich.ch/internet/de...gestellte.html
And the SECO with lots of useful information: https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/de/ho...ragsrecht.html

speakeron 29.06.2017 23:11

Re: Information about how to hire a domestic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 2809987)
- gardener
- green keeper
- game keeper
- chauffeur
- stable boy
- pool boy
- hall boy
- nursemaid
- wet nurse
- lackey
- valet
also some henchmen
and finally a dungeon keeper

I think 'flunkies' is the correct name for henchmen.

As for the rest, how the hell am I going fit that lot on the balcony...?

EDIT: I missed the wet nurse. Yea sure, you're gonna have one of those whether you need it not.

flubber03 30.06.2017 08:49

Re: Information about how to hire a domestic
 
I have some emploeyers they use quitt, other do theirself...
In the beginning I thought quitt was very helpfull, but I think is a bit expensive... I am studying to learn how to do that myself so My Employers does not have to do it or pay for it... they have only to sign and send the papers... After you learn is pretty easy acctually. SVA has all the forms on the website and the insurance, you can use Axa and is online, quick and painless

Good Luck

mgosia 30.06.2017 09:14

Re: Information about how to hire a domestic
 
If you use quitt's cheapest subscription (basically just using their collective accident insurance) it actually comes out cheaper than AXA which is a flat rate of around 100CHF/yr. With quitt basic you pay 45/yr plus 0.6% of wages so only becomes more expensive if you pay out more than 10k/yr

Diyacomp 21.09.2017 19:34

Advice on how to hire domestic help
 
I'm planning to employ some domestic help and I want to make sure I do it properly. However there seem to be so many details to consider! I have not been able to find comprehensive information that is easy to understand, so I thought it would be helpful to many if we could create a thread with appropriate advice.

Advice appreciated!!

aSwissInTheUS 21.09.2017 19:40

Re: Advice on how to hire domestic help
 
https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...-domestic.html

The_Love_Doctor 21.09.2017 22:56

Re: Advice on how to hire domestic help
 
5 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Diyacomp (Post 2850610)
I'm planning to employ some domestic help and I want to make sure I do it properly. However there seem to be so many details to consider! I have not been able to find comprehensive information that is easy to understand, so I thought it would be helpful to many if we could create a thread with appropriate advice.

Advice appreciated!!


I went through the process recently and I agree that to do it properly there are a few steps that you need to take without which it may seem rather overwhelming the first time around.

I would recommend the following:

1) Info:
- read the "Domestic Help" info document from ahv-iv.ch (https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/2.06.e)
- read the "NAV Hauswirtschaft" for the kanton where you live. There are local regulations for each kanton, some of which can be excluded explicitly in the employment contract. (E.g. Sickness cover for more than one month)

2) Employment Contract:
- get a template employment contract and adjust it to your needs. I got mine from www.myright.ch (see attached)
- The template also has info on regulation etc although only in German.
- Additionally you can also get a template for a timesheet to keep track of hours worked.
- Also probably worth signing something if you give a key to your domestic helper so that it's clear who would be liable for replacing locks in case she / he loses the key.

3) Insurance:
A) get accident insurance at work (BUVG) for domestic workers, lots of insurance companies offer this and it costs CHF100.- per year. It's really stupid to employ anyone without this. (e.g. Axa Winterthur)

B) if your domestic helper works more than 8 hours per week (most don't) you will also need to get non-work related accident insurance.

C) Optionally you can also have a daily benefits insurance to cover payments to your domestic helper in case of illness that lasts more than one month. However the employment contract can specify that you would only cover periods of sickness up to one month. This insurance both employer and employee contribute to 50/50.

3) AHV contributions:
For annual salaries less than CHF21'150.-, the simplified procedure form "Vereinfachte Abrechnung" (e.g. www.akzug.ch) can be completed once a year to pay the AHV contributions and source tax. The domestic helper gets a summary sent to them which shows how much they paid etc and they can use this for their tax return. Contact your local AHV directly towards the end of the year.

That's it! Just pay your domestic helper every month or whichever way you agree.:msnnerd:


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