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  #81  
Old 18.10.2009, 14:52
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

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Ahh right... so nothing other than a subjective opinion based on meeting a few people. I'll wait for some clearer figures.



Im not quite sure which part of "catering toward a specific and hugely significant proportion of the population that speak native English" you are finding difficult to grips with, and I don't mean that sarcastically. How is the Spanish-speaking or Czech-speaking demographic relevant to the topic at hand? We are talking about English, one of the main international business languages, and one spoken by more people than speak two of Switzerlands "official" languages. What argument is there against that? Seems pretty clear-cut to me.
Ok lets see your figures. I know things have changed in the last 10 years, but the most recent figures I find are that Serbo-Croatian is the most spoken non national language. In fact in 2000 all non national languages in the country together accounted for just a little more then Italian. I realise that the number of expats have increased since then, but they are not just English expats. The upsurge in expats is from many countries and many may have language problems. I used Czech as an example because in the 60's there was a huge increase in the number of Czechs who came to Switzerland. They all had to learn the language!!! These days with the bilateral agreement there are many more people coming to Switzerland. We also have electronic translators, google translate, language schools etc it has never been easier to get by in a foreign language, yet we still think we should not have to learn the language?

English speaking people seem to expect everyone to speak their language and make no (or very little) allowances in their own countries for non-native speakers. Suddenly when we find ourselves in a country where English is not the national language we expect to be treated differently to how we would treat foreigners in our own country. What makes us better?

The attitude that everything must be translated into English to suit a minority (Yes, we are still a minority) plays right into the hands of the SVP in showing that foreigners come here to take from the country and don't want to integrate into society. If we keep going on with this kind of attitude there may be one day more support for the SVP and it may be much harder for people to come to work and live in Switzerland.
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  #82  
Old 18.10.2009, 15:48
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

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If a person were to decline moving to Switzerland because one of the supermarkets does not offer an English service, well, what can I say?
Naturlich! And sorry if I broadened the scope of this topic somewhat but I wanted to counter all the English speaking apologists. If it were just the Coop we were talking about then no problem at all - its their loss but it is not. Almost every Swiss retailer fails to provide an English language option, as do several local municipalities, banks, gyms, telecoms providers etc.

They then take great pleasure in pointing out if you miss any of the contractural delicacies such as notice of termination of contract etc. This type of behaviour does and will continue to take its toll. It is not very welcoming.
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Old 18.10.2009, 16:08
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

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What makes us better?
It doesn't make us better, it just makes us lucky that our language is the world language.

I've only just moved to Switzerland and my school-learnt French has already got better. However, it is not an instant switch and I obviously find certain day to day tasks very hard.

As for the OP's original post, good luck with your campaign.
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  #84  
Old 18.10.2009, 16:10
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Almost every Swiss retailer fails to provide an English language option, as do several local municipalities, banks, gyms, telecoms providers etc.
UBS and Swisscom don't and guess who ended up with my business?!?

Maybe with time, once I've learnt more French, I will pick a different provider/bank but until then, they have my business.
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  #85  
Old 18.10.2009, 17:29
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

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...Almost every Swiss retailer fails to provide an English language option, as do several local municipalities, banks, gyms, telecoms providers etc. ...
Of course they fail to provide an English option. This isn't an English speaking country! The languages they speak here are the languages of the land, and we cannot expect the Swiss to constantly bow to our demand for English. Living here, it is our responsibility to learn at least some of the local lingo - or have a translator who does - than demand all businesses/services/government offices provide English information.

That said, it is excellent customer service to provide English websites and info - but I won't ever demand it. I don't feel it is my right to, English is not an official language of this country.

Of course, if an English option is offered, I do usually use it as it is less thinking for me than taking the time to read slowly a German version. I never take it for granted, and am always grateful that English is provided when it is.
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Old 18.10.2009, 18:55
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

Imagine that, only having their online shop in foreign languages. At this rate, soon the whole world will be filled with foreigners!
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Old 18.10.2009, 19:52
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

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Of course they fail to provide an English option. This isn't an English speaking country! The languages they speak here are the languages of the land, and we cannot expect the Swiss to constantly bow to our demand for English. Living here, it is our responsibility to learn at least some of the local lingo - or have a translator who does - than demand all businesses/services/government offices provide English information.

That said, it is excellent customer service to provide English websites and info - but I won't ever demand it. I don't feel it is my right to, English is not an official language of this country.

Of course, if an English option is offered, I do usually use it as it is less thinking for me than taking the time to read slowly a German version. I never take it for granted, and am always grateful that English is provided when it is.
Forgetting the rights and wrongs of the matter I was simply pointing out that it would improve Switzerland's GLOBAL competitiveness if English was a little more widely available as a language option. Not only for the British, Americans, Irish, Canadians, South Africans, New Zealanders and Australians here but also for the many many other nations for whom English is the standard second language e.g. Indians.

Of course romantically & emotionally Switzerland will always be associated with French/German/Italian but to stick purely to these three languages in contracts/marketing material/letters will undoubtedly impact negatively on Switzerland's competitiveness versus other international competitors, offering widespread English and offering similar low taxation advantages.
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Old 18.10.2009, 21:14
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

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Forgetting the rights and wrongs of the matter I was simply pointing out that it would improve Switzerland's GLOBAL competitiveness if English was a little more widely available as a language option. Not only for the British, Americans, Irish, Canadians, South Africans, New Zealanders and Australians here but also for the many many other nations for whom English is the standard second language e.g. Indians.

Of course romantically & emotionally Switzerland will always be associated with French/German/Italian but to stick purely to these three languages in contracts/marketing material/letters will undoubtedly impact negatively on Switzerland's competitiveness versus other international competitors, offering widespread English and offering similar low taxation advantages.
In all internationaly active companies and organizations here, English is a de-facto standard. All people educated at the University level are fully functional in English. You underestimate the state of language here. Even in primary school English has been established as the first foreign language that kids learn, starting in the 2nd grade (Kanton Zurich, and others).

We are talking about foreign workers shopping at local grocery stores, dealing with local (non-university educated, blue collar locals working in local service industries) workers.

Take a course and make an effort, people. Don't be the ugly American/Brit/Aussie. Remember, you are ambassadors for your country here.
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Old 18.10.2009, 21:29
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

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Take a course and make an effort, people. Don't be the ugly American/Brit/Aussie. Remember, you are ambassadors for your country here.
I think you being too simplistic. I was very fortunate that I did both French and German at school to the level where I understand numbers, directions, how to ask for the basic etc.

However, most people who come to Switzerland are not in that position and extra help, where possible, is certainly welcome. I'm still in the process of moving and just about have enough time to eat let alone do a course!
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Old 18.10.2009, 22:00
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

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We are talking about foreign workers shopping at local grocery stores, dealing with local (non-university educated, blue collar locals working in local service industries) workers.

Take a course and make an effort, people. Don't be the ugly American/Brit/Aussie. Remember, you are ambassadors for your country here.
I was not referring to shopping at the local grocery store (which I am more than happy to do with gruezis and mercis aplenty) but rather online transactions.

More seriously it is very difficult to find health insurance, car insurance, credit card agreements, lease agreements and other rather critical legal documents in English. They exist but very much limit the choice. It is quite strange and rather backward that one of the leading credit card issuers in Switzerland has actually stopped issuing application forms in English. One can draw one's own conclusions as to what their motivation might have been - it certainly was not in the interests of furthering customer relations.

On top of that comes the fact that customer protection here is virtually non-existant and the power is very much in the hands of the corporate. There are unique quirks to Swiss contracts (such as the notorious 5 year fixed car insurance agreement etc.) which would come as a shock in English but which many uncertain partial German/French speakers may be completely unaware of. And lawyers aren't exactly cheap!
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Old 18.10.2009, 22:04
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

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I was not referring to shopping at the local grocery store (which I am more than happy to do with gruezis and mercis aplenty) but rather online transactions.

More seriously it is very difficult to find health insurance, car insurance, credit card agreements, lease agreements and other rather critical legal documents in English. They exist but very much limit the choice. It is quite strange and rather backward that one of the leading credit card issuers in Switzerland has actually stopped issuing application forms in English. One can draw one's own conclusions as to what their motivation mights have been.

On top of that comes the fact that customer protection here is virtually non-existant and the power is very much in the hands of the corporate. There are unique quirks to Swiss contracts (such as the notorious 5 year fixed car insurance agreement etc.) which would come as a shock in English but which many uncertain partial German/French speakers may be completely unaware of. And lawyers aren't exactly cheap!
Where do you come from? The US, UK, Australia, NZ? Do they offer German or French or Italian language forms and services as normal? Would you expect them to? Demand them to?
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Old 18.10.2009, 22:08
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

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Where do you come from? The US, UK, Australia, NZ? Do they offer German or French or Italian language forms and services as normal? Would you expect them to? Demand them to?
I absolutely would expect them to if German was the second most widely spoken language of the world and THE language of international business. One example being the availability of documentation and legal forms in Spanish in many US states. Anyways if you read through the posts you will see my argument for greater incorporation of English. It is based on making Switzerland more competitive. I do not think for one moment it would be right to be greeted in English in the local Coop. I do however think it not beyond the wit of the Swiss to produce key legal documents in English.

A little Google research lead me to this http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/front/Ma...rss=true&ty=st article. In this study, conducted by Swiss professionals, and initiated by the Swiss Government entitled "The diversity of languages and linguistic capacities in Switzerland" conclusions include:
- Researchers have suggested making English a semi-official language in Switzerland as a way of attracting more foreign professionals to the country.
- They found that Switzerland needed to step up its translation services, especially in some basic situations, such as for foreign patients undergoing treatment in a hospital.
- Well-qualified foreigners only tend to stay in Switzerland for a couple of years, not always enough time to learn a national language, the study says. Making more legal documents and forms available in English would make their life easier and boost recruitment.

All similar points to those I made earlier. These are the points of Swiss nationals. Where I come from is unimportant.
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  #93  
Old 19.10.2009, 09:35
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

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What's important about English is that is the most widely spoken second language. By providing English you reach far more people than just US and UK citizens.
This is a very good point that everyone seems to have ignored.
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Old 19.10.2009, 09:54
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

Sent as follows:

Dear coop2home,
Please provide your delivery service coop@home in english.
I realise there are additional costs, but if I understand more, I'll spend more with you instead of Migros/leshop.
Until then you continue to lose my @home spend to leshop/migros
In addition a service like Tesco where you deliver to large organisations or permit me to pickup would be great.
M. Farrell
supercard number: (provided)

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Old 19.10.2009, 10:05
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

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The attitude that everything must be translated into English to suit a minority (Yes, we are still a minority) plays right into the hands of the SVP in showing that foreigners come here to take from the country and don't want to integrate into society. If we keep going on with this kind of attitude there may be one day more support for the SVP and it may be much harder for people to come to work and live in Switzerland.
No-one is suggesting "everything" must be translated. Sure there's additional cost but there's additional revenue at stake too. I'm not asking for the coop magazine to be delivered in english for example. Leshop have proven it's possible, which migros understood and purchased it, why not coop?

The SVP/integration thing is another point entirely. The SVP haven't campaigned for leshop to remove english from their website have they?
It is already harder since the 2008 foreigner law for non-EU nationals, and it's harder to get a C permit without language ability so this is already here. I don't worry about "playing into the hands" of the SVP each day, as they'll find their ammunition anyway by themselves.
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Old 19.10.2009, 11:27
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

While an english translation of a website is pretty low on my personal wish list, I heartily applaud any effort to convince Coop that customer demand - for whatever - is something worth listening to.

So for that reason, I've written them.

Now if they would only listen to my pleas to bring back those bagels...
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Old 20.10.2009, 12:24
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

germany is i think 3rd or 4th most biggest economy in the world. and this was not based on having english as main language, we speak german, and a little bit of se english länguitsch. most german internet shops dont have the english option and this didnt keep us from making business still. i dont see the point how a mobile fon contract in english would change that to...make CH more competitive? i mean...you are here, right?

to click on coop homepage for the goods you want, to find out that strasse means street, adresse address...wow! this mess really needs to be changed! immediately! how else the oversmart people with the big rolling cash can contribute to the economy, consuming? get a petition up!

if you dont know the words to write one in german http://dict.leo.org/
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Old 20.10.2009, 12:51
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germany is i think 3rd or 4th most biggest economy in the world. and this was not based on having english as main language, we speak german, and a little bit of se english länguitsch. most german internet shops dont have the english option and this didnt keep us from making business still. i dont see the point how a mobile fon contract in english would change that to...make CH more competitive? i mean...you are here, right?

to click on coop homepage for the goods you want, to find out that strasse means street, adresse address...wow! this mess really needs to be changed! immediately! how else the oversmart people with the big rolling cash can contribute to the economy, consuming? get a petition up!

if you dont know the words to write one in german http://dict.leo.org/
Germany - totally different economy to Switzerland. Germany - 82 million people, 91.5% of whom are ethnic Germans. Switzerland 7.7m people speaking all sorts of languages.

Germany has an abundance of workers (high unemployment) and is a high tax environment.

Switzerland has to continually import workers and is a low tax environment.

The continued success of Switzerland is dependent on attracting the best and brightest from the rest of the world. This will be in jeopardy if the people are made more welcome in other such economies e.g. Singapore, UAE via the widespread availability of English.
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Old 20.10.2009, 13:11
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Germany - totally different economy to Switzerland. Germany - 82 million people, 91.5% of whom are ethnic Germans. Switzerland 7.7m people speaking all sorts of languages.
Sometimes I do wonder if people do actually think about things before pressing the submit button... comparing two completely countries with completely difficult economies? Very odd.
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Old 20.10.2009, 13:13
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Re: Coop and Migros Home Delivery in English please read

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to click on coop homepage for the goods you want, to find out that strasse means street, adresse address...wow! this mess really needs to be changed! immediately! how else the oversmart people with the big rolling cash can contribute to the economy, consuming? get a petition up!

if you dont know the words to write one in german http://dict.leo.org/
Yes, but internet translators aren't 100% reliable, and for sensitive things like billing information, people prefer to have them in a language that they understand best and aren't just beginners in. Doesn't mean that they don't speak any German or don't plan to learn it one day.
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