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  #21  
Old 13.05.2011, 13:14
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Re: Swiss to tackle 'suicide tourism'

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Swiss vote could call time on 'suicide tourism'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13380557
The problem lies with other countries rather than Switzerland. It is the ambiguity of the law in the UK that sends people to Zurich.

If there was an equivalent to Dignitas in the UK, with proper controls, there would be no need for people to travel at such a terrible time in their lives.

Last edited by Deep Purple; 13.05.2011 at 13:51.
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  #22  
Old 13.05.2011, 13:40
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Re: Swiss to tackle 'suicide tourism'

One case where Switzerland is way ahead of the UK or US and so many others. My mother chose to become a member of Exit when it was first created- in the days when mum was a strong, positive, fit person. We got a letter from her with copies to her solicitor, GP and local hospital director. It was a read shock at first- but I slowly came to see her point of view. The availability of being able to be a member of Exit was, actually, one of the many factors that decided me to come back to CH- having seen my mil suffer the most undignified death possible (in the UK, suffering from Alzheimers). Sadly my mum in CH lived 12 years of misery, blind, wheel-chair bound, etc- and I will always regret not having helped her 'out'. A/ because I lived in UK so that made it very difficult B/ because my dad was totally against it and would have never forgiven me C/ because the old peoples homes where she was did not allow Exit on their premises. She never asked in the end- had she done so, I would have helped. She died 3 weeks before we moved here- I hoped to take her back to our home once we had moved, to give her the choice.

We live in a world where medicine keeps people alive way beyond 'normal' now, compared to
even just 20 years ago- so 'normality' does not exist anymore. In the old days my mum would have just stopped eating, and she wouldn't have been force fed- and she wouldn't have been pumped with antibiotics every time she coughed, and given transfusion regularly to keep her going.

I am not religious- and I truly deeply resent religious people applying their rules and views on how I live or die. I also have the greatest admiration for the work of hospices and paliative care- but I ask for my wishes to go at a time of my choosing, if ever deprived of the most basic functions and with the prospect of a terrible and undignified death.

My main concern now is the fact that senile dementia and Alzheimers are not covered by Swiss Law. A person has to be able to state clearly their wish to die and be able to 'press the button'. This must be addressed asap. One should be able to clearly prepare a protocol of action, asking a third party to take charge, in case of loss of mind. Stating a clear sett of personalised 'limits' when the third party should take charge, with the approval and checks of solicitor and medical advisor - individual for each person. Something Exit is working on, but which is being halted at every stage. I never ever want huge sums of money keeping me alive, which could give a chance of survival to a young person. I never want my children and dear ones to go through the agonies of watching me behave in the most undignified manner (as we had to witness my mil- poor thing). I am a fighter, and if ever struck by a terrible disease, I'd fight, fight like hell- but when the battle is lost, I want to choose the time and the place. MY CHOICE.
And for that I am so grateful of living in a country which is, in this instance, way ahead of most. That people suffering from the most debilitating diseases, with the prospect of suffocating to death (as in the case of Debby Purdy) have to travel away from the comfort of their surroundings and loved ones, and suffer the pain and exhaustion of travel (having to die several weeks or months 'earlier' than necessary to make this travel physically possible) is obscene and totally unfair and inhuman.

Last edited by Odile; 13.05.2011 at 13:56.
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  #23  
Old 15.05.2011, 15:31
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Swiss reject a ban of assisted suicide

I spotted this one on the BBC website and wondered what the view of the EF would be: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13405376

One particular aspect struck me in this article: "About 200 people commit assisted suicide each year in Zurich"

Now I may be a bit odd but I find it amazing that the same people keep coming back to Zurich to commit suicide each year - a pretty neat trick really.
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Old 15.05.2011, 15:43
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Re: Swiss reject assisted suicide

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I spotted this one on the BBC website and wondered what the view of the EF would be: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13405376

One particular aspect struck me in this article: "About 200 people commit assisted suicide each year in Zurich"

Now I may be a bit odd but I find it amazing that the same people keep coming back to Zurich to commit suicide each year - a pretty neat trick really.
Yes. I agree. About being a bit odd...... The same people? They keep coming back...? ...to commit suicide? If it don`t work the first time, why do they keep coming back ...? If they had any common sense they`d try a different place.
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Old 15.05.2011, 15:52
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Re: Swiss reject assisted suicide

To be fair, your subject is a bit misleading. The article you link suggests that they'll vote to reject a ban, not that they have rejected assisted suicide.
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  #26  
Old 15.05.2011, 15:55
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Re: Swiss reject assisted suicide

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To be fair, your subject is a bit misleading. The article you link suggests that they'll vote to reject a ban, not that they have rejected assisted suicide.
Yes. The article says "The Swiss have rejected the proposed ban on assisted suicides" which means it stays the same.

Not that they reject assisted suicide!
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  #27  
Old 15.05.2011, 15:57
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Re: Swiss reject assisted suicide

Yes, pheew, I had to do a double take too. Sadly many people have to come to Switzerland if life has become intolerable for them due to a debilitating illness - because Switzerland is one of the few 'advanced' (yes, yes, in this case absolutely) places where this is possible. Extremely sad - as people suffering so much should be able to stay in their own home, surrounded by their family and friends. How sad. I'm so glad Swiss people do not intend to withdraw this last hope to dignity for those people.

Had I been living in CH at the time, I would have invited Debbie Purdy to my own home. Poor poor woman and her husband.
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  #28  
Old 15.05.2011, 16:13
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Re: Swiss reject a ban of assisted suicide

similar thread http://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-pol...e-tourism.html

The canton Züri website says it's over...with 100% of the votes and 183 of 185 areas
Only 21.59% for the initiative against "suicide tourism" and just 15.52% for the initiative against suicide assistance. link
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  #29  
Old 15.05.2011, 16:45
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Re: Swiss reject assisted suicide

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To be fair, your subject is a bit misleading. The article you link suggests that they'll vote to reject a ban, not that they have rejected assisted suicide.
Not only that, but also it's only the voters in Canton Zurich, not "the Swiss." The Zürchers may sometimes behave as if they were THE Swiss, but I'm sure they know they aren't.

Granted, Louis didn't write "The Swiss," only "Swiss," but, being a headline, it still reads as if it referred to the entire country.

Apart from that, I fully agree with Odile.
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Old 15.05.2011, 17:26
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Re: Swiss to tackle 'suicide tourism'

A rare event, Thank you GreyBeard.

Did anybody see last year's Dimbleby lecture- the plea made by Terry Pratchett, the famous UK author, and read by him of Baldrick fame (name escapes me at the mo). One of the most moving thing I'd heard in a long time.

To be found on Google if you'd like to listen to it.

Edit: I've just watched it again. Tony Robinson, of course. It is wonderfully written, and I agree with every word. Hope some of you find time or inclination to listen to it.

Last edited by Odile; 15.05.2011 at 18:23.
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Old 15.05.2011, 19:44
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Re: Swiss to tackle 'suicide tourism'

I've just now finished watching this fabled lecture. He speaks of many of the things I have never been able to articulate, but were always buzzing in my head over this theme.
It has also given me cause to think further, actually think, not just intuit how I feel about it and also how I want to convey my wishes and thoughts to my family should I find myself at a stage where I would consider this as an option.

I so appreciated the straightforward conciseness of Terry Pratchetts words,,, one of those "Aaaah" moments for me.

Tony Robinson did a wonderful portrayal for Terry in his delivery of the lecture, which if anyone is interested can be seen below.


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Old 15.05.2011, 19:50
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Re: Swiss to tackle 'suicide tourism'

'Glad' you found it as inspiring as I did - and that for you as well as me, it put into words things we'd felt intuitively for some time- without knowing how to formulate it. I feel indeed privileged to live in a country where my wishes will be respected. Of course, sadly, this would NOT apply in the case of senile dementia or Alzheimers. The next step for Exit to strive for. It is important to become a member when still young enough, healthy and sound of mind- to give more weight to one's wishes, and of course to provide funds for them to continue the fight. My solicitor and GP are informed, and so are my OH and children (who all respect and agree)- let's hope I will never need it. A quick heart attack in when I'm about 95 would do me nicely - but better be 'insured'.
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Old 15.05.2011, 20:01
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Re: Swiss to tackle 'suicide tourism'

Interesting point about the dementia/Alzheimers not being included in the scheme. It must be a huge legal, moral and ethical, dilemma, as indeed, is the whole aspect of "assisted death" ( to quote Mr Pratchett).
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Old 15.05.2011, 20:15
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Re: Swiss to tackle 'suicide tourism'

You have to show that you are of 'sound and clear' mind at the time of request and deed. Another problem, is that you have to be physically able to 'press the button'. There was an interesting case last year in my area, where the person suffering from a debilitating disease was indeed still able to do so the day before, but then couldn't. The retired Dr who was the Exit assistant on the day felt that was so unfair, and being begged by the patient, did what had to be done. She was actually reported by a colleague who knew full well that it was the patient's strongest and clear wish. She was cleared of murder by the court, thank goodness.

One should be able to devise a clear, personal, protocol- when in sound and clear mind, that should one suffer one day from Dementia or Alzheimers, and one has crossed a certain number of personally set 'barriers' (like when I no longer recognise my closest family, when I start smearing my excrements on my room (yes... this is a common occurrence with Alzheimers), etc, when I do no longer show pleasure at the birds singing... whatever- then please let me go and do it for me, as I won't be able to do it myself.
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  #35  
Old 15.05.2011, 22:01
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Re: Swiss reject assisted suicide

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To be fair, your subject is a bit misleading. The article you link suggests that they'll vote to reject a ban, not that they have rejected assisted suicide.

Yes, I realise that now, sorry I was tryping faster than thinking and I didn't intend to mislead. I noted though that a kindly mod has re-titled the post so all's well that ends well.

I did also conduct a search but didn't find the previously started thread.

I am also in favour of the assisted suicide in certain cases idea and I'm pleased that the voters rejected a ban.
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  #36  
Old 03.06.2011, 16:05
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Re: Swiss to tackle 'suicide tourism'

on the topic, it seems that Dr. Jack Kevorkian (aka Dr. Death) has passed away of natural causes. A pioneer on this controversial topic


http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...84-20110603-mr
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  #37  
Old 13.06.2011, 20:18
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Re: Swiss to tackle 'suicide tourism'

Terry Pratchett's programme with his visit to Dignitas is on tv tonight, BBC2 @10pm, Terry Pratchett - Choosing to Die. This is the programme which caused some controversy in the UK as he is with a gentleman that has chosen to end his life.

Not sure if I want to watch or not. I would like to see but think it may be too upsetting

Last edited by Clarejane; 13.06.2011 at 20:21. Reason: added prog title
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  #38  
Old 13.06.2011, 20:37
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Re: Swiss to tackle 'suicide tourism'

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Terry Pratchett's programme with his visit to Dignitas is on tv tonight, BBC2 @10pm, Terry Pratchett - Choosing to Die. This is the programme which caused some controversy in the UK as he is with a gentleman that has chosen to end his life.

Not sure if I want to watch or not. I would like to see but think it may be too upsetting
as soon as I saw it, I knew I'd record it! Sir TP will choose to go with dignity and that's only one of the things I love about him.
suffering from an mental illness must be the worst, because it could be that you forget how bad it is, before you can choose to go! I'm sooooo glad that I live in a country where I can officialy choose how and when to leave this planet.
I don't know why religion should be a problem there anyway. Didn't god give us free will???
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Old 13.06.2011, 20:40
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Re: Swiss to tackle 'suicide tourism'

Thanks for reminding me. I'll definitely watch as the subject is very close to my heart. I wonder if others here on EF are members of Exit?
I am always so surprised that couples, parents, families- do not discuss their wishes and thoughts more openly.

I've made a promise to a friend in the UK that if ever she needs help- she'll be able to come and stay with me rather than go to Dignitas in a horrible anonymous flat in Zurich. Must check with Exit how long a person needs to be resident in CH before being entitled to support.
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Old 13.06.2011, 20:44
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Re: Swiss to tackle 'suicide tourism'

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Thanks for reminding me. I'll definitely watch as the subject is very close to my heart. I wonder if others here on EF are members of Exit?
I am always so surprised that couples, parents, families- do not discuss their wishes and thoughts more openly.

I've made a promise to a friend in the UK that if ever she needs help- she'll be able to come and stay with me rather than go to Dignitas in a horrible anonymous flat in Zurich. Must check with Exit how long a person needs to be resident in CH before being entitled to support.
It's funny, people allways talk about Dignitas but never about Exit...
I'd never go to Dignitas, i'd jump off a bridge first to be honest. Exit is much better organised and I also like that they are not so much in the public as Dignitas.
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