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  #721  
Old 08.07.2012, 18:09
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

if people would show more respect for others that would be no need for a ban, but since many smokers walk up to others and light a cigarette without even caring I guess they had it coming...
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  #722  
Old 09.07.2012, 03:40
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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No, outside... there is a ban on all smoking inside in the city in any public place thanks to Bloomberg. He is now trying to ban it from anywhere in the city in public... and off topic a bit, he also has had the laws changed about food being served to the children in schools and removed as much unhealthy food as possible.
Bloomberg is a nut job but, then again, so are most of the tree huggers in Cambridge (MA) who are also considering banning (the Big Gulps to habitués) large soft drinks. While I agree with the sentiment that unbridled consumption and obese folks need to be...how shall I put this nicely...re-educated, banning all bad behaviors simply isn't the way to enlightenment. I think the age of prohibition illustrated that pretty firmly.

However, even as a smoker, I found the HB utterly inhospitable due to the columns of smoke wafting up from the trash can butt cans as well as the HB simply not being very well ventilated. Add into that folks who seem to be comfortable walking around with a butt in hand in large crowds...I avoided it at all costs. I'm a 5 cig per day kind of smoker though so...perhaps I'm not average but, still, for folks consumed with 'nature' and rules and cleanliness, it is a bit of a conundrum that Zurich is about 20 years behind the ball on this one.
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  #723  
Old 09.07.2012, 07:54
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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if people would show more respect for others that would be no need for a ban, but since many smokers walk up to others and light a cigarette without even caring I guess they had it coming...
If there in a room with 5 people, 2 smoke, the room is smoke-filled. And smokers for times regarded their doing as the normal thing and simply said that people who did not like it might go elsewhere. So that it was/is not a matter of respect
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  #724  
Old 10.07.2012, 10:57
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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Bloomberg is a nut job but, then again, so are most of the tree huggers in Cambridge (MA) who are also considering banning (the Big Gulps to habitués) large soft drinks. While I agree with the sentiment that unbridled consumption and obese folks need to be...how shall I put this nicely...re-educated, banning all bad behaviors simply isn't the way to enlightenment. I think the age of prohibition illustrated that pretty firmly.

However, even as a smoker, I found the HB utterly inhospitable due to the columns of smoke wafting up from the trash can butt cans as well as the HB simply not being very well ventilated. Add into that folks who seem to be comfortable walking around with a butt in hand in large crowds...I avoided it at all costs. I'm a 5 cig per day kind of smoker though so...perhaps I'm not average but, still, for folks consumed with 'nature' and rules and cleanliness, it is a bit of a conundrum that Zurich is about 20 years behind the ball on this one.
well... now I see the separation of tree-hugger and state as I am also a tree hugger. I have also never smoked a day in my life, never tried (nor didn't inhale try)...

bloomy has done a lot of good for the city, including financially... like him, hate it, could take him come or go... he is doing what he thinks is best.. and its better than his predecessor!!

in terms of removing the soda, etc... while it isn't really the right way to solve the problem, it is certainly a deterrent. for my two cents, uneducated parents = uneducated children. so, any measure is better than no measure. no??
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  #725  
Old 10.07.2012, 15:01
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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in terms of removing the soda, etc... while it isn't really the right way to solve the problem, it is certainly a deterrent. for my two cents, uneducated parents = uneducated children. so, any measure is better than no measure. no??
Well, I'm no hippie, but I'm not a Once-ler either. Laws banning stupidity don't make people smarter though it might slow them down on occasion. I sit by the pool and the fat kids are the ones whose parents are giving them oreos and doritos for snacks. Mine gets pita chips and apple slices (and oh the whining I get over the other kids getting cookies). Laws banning snacks filled with empty calories probably won't improve things unless there's a structure behind the law to help educate and change behavior like taking the kids to McD's when you're too tire to cook. I cook and TJ's is my idea of fast food so when I see these round kids getting McD's (and having my 5yo ask who Ronald is...) I wonder if they understand just how terrible the food is for a young child (and I'm really no purist when it comes to food...). A law banning fast food for young children wouldn't work, but educating parents on better options and how to put a better dinner on the table in 30mins might.

So, no, 'any measure' is not always better than none as, particularly with contraband substances, banning things tends to make them much, much more appealing, especially something that is so easily available in almost every store, convenience mart, restaurant, etc.
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  #726  
Old 10.07.2012, 21:56
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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Bloomberg is a nut job but, then again, so are most of the tree huggers in Cambridge (MA) who are also considering banning (the Big Gulps to habitués) large soft drinks. While I agree with the sentiment that unbridled consumption and obese folks need to be...how shall I put this nicely...re-educated, banning all bad behaviors simply isn't the way to enlightenment. I think the age of prohibition illustrated that pretty firmly.

However, even as a smoker, I found the HB utterly inhospitable due to the columns of smoke wafting up from the trash can butt cans as well as the HB simply not being very well ventilated. Add into that folks who seem to be comfortable walking around with a butt in hand in large crowds...I avoided it at all costs. I'm a 5 cig per day kind of smoker though so...perhaps I'm not average but, still, for folks consumed with 'nature' and rules and cleanliness, it is a bit of a conundrum that Zurich is about 20 years behind the ball on this one.
Average of what ? With 5 cigs per day, you are an average smoker, but as the smokers are a minority, you indeed are NOT average if having the total in mind.

Zürich HB main hall is closed on three sides and has NO ventilation, and so should be considered and handled as a closed room.

Zürich behind what and whom exactly ? Inside Switzerland the Canton of Zürich is, together with some other Cantons AHEAD of the average. With its Cantonal Smoking Ban, with its prohibition of smokers restaurants, with its regulation only allowing NOT served fumoirs.

In regard to Zürich HB and some similar places I hope that the SBB will become authorized to issue smoking/non-smoking regulations about its rail-stations.

A good thing is that the "underground" S-Bahn stations (S4 and Uetlibergbahn below Bahnhofplatz and the Bahnhof Landesmuseum) have a total smoking ban.
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  #727  
Old 11.07.2012, 14:24
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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Well, I'm no hippie, but I'm not a Once-ler either. Laws banning stupidity don't make people smarter though it might slow them down on occasion. I sit by the pool and the fat kids are the ones whose parents are giving them oreos and doritos for snacks. Mine gets pita chips and apple slices (and oh the whining I get over the other kids getting cookies). Laws banning snacks filled with empty calories probably won't improve things unless there's a structure behind the law to help educate and change behavior like taking the kids to McD's when you're too tire to cook. I cook and TJ's is my idea of fast food so when I see these round kids getting McD's (and having my 5yo ask who Ronald is...) I wonder if they understand just how terrible the food is for a young child (and I'm really no purist when it comes to food...). A law banning fast food for young children wouldn't work, but educating parents on better options and how to put a better dinner on the table in 30mins might.

So, no, 'any measure' is not always better than none as, particularly with contraband substances, banning things tends to make them much, much more appealing, especially something that is so easily available in almost every store, convenience mart, restaurant, etc.
I disagree... you smoke but yet you feed your children apple slices... so, is that a chunk of apple with a side of second-hand nicotine?

I also think I mentioned that educating the parents would help the problem, didn't I? But, in the meantime, there IS a problem where 30% of americans are obese, and the portions are plenty. The quality of food is a disaster at best and it takes someone to put his or her foot down to try and make a change.

I think a great step in educating your children would be around how harmful smoking is, and that you quit today (not tomorrow) and never looked back, teaching them just how big of a mistake it was for you to ever start.

Or... do you believe smoking is good for you?

/frown
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  #728  
Old 11.07.2012, 14:27
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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In regard to Zürich HB and some similar places I hope that the SBB will become authorized to issue smoking/non-smoking regulations about its rail-stations.
I have to say, the Basel SBB is horrible. You cannot even walk through there without 4 million people smoking, blocking every entrance. It really should be banned from all public places, so those of us who choose to not shorten our lives, have the choice to walk freely.
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Old 11.07.2012, 15:12
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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I disagree... you smoke but yet you feed your children apple slices... so, is that a chunk of apple with a side of second-hand nicotine?
Why the nastiness? I don't smoke in the house or around my daughter so...no, it's not served with a side of nicotine.

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I also think I mentioned that educating the parents would help the problem, didn't I? But, in the meantime, there IS a problem where 30% of americans are obese, and the portions are plenty. The quality of food is a disaster at best and it takes someone to put his or her foot down to try and make a change.
Actually, I think pediatric obesity is becoming and even bigger problem than adult obesity, both of which are contributing to high rates of diabetes.

There are a lot of factors at work here such as tired parents tend to reach for convenient foods that are quick and easy instead of cooking something simple but less convenient. Add that to kids who aren't allowed to go outside by themselves anymore and it's easy to see it's not just about the food, but an overall lifestyle which isn't quite as simple to change as shopping for better groceries.

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I think a great step in educating your children would be around how harmful smoking is, and that you quit today (not tomorrow) and never looked back, teaching them just how big of a mistake it was for you to ever start.

Or... do you believe smoking is good for you?

/frown
No, I don't believe it's good for me. And I only have one.

As Mark Twain is often quoted, "Quitting smoking is easy. I've done it a thousand times."
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  #730  
Old 11.07.2012, 15:34
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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Why the nastiness? I don't smoke in the house or around my daughter so...no, it's not served with a side of nicotine.



Actually, I think pediatric obesity is becoming and even bigger problem than adult obesity, both of which are contributing to high rates of diabetes.

There are a lot of factors at work here such as tired parents tend to reach for convenient foods that are quick and easy instead of cooking something simple but less convenient. Add that to kids who aren't allowed to go outside by themselves anymore and it's easy to see it's not just about the food, but an overall lifestyle which isn't quite as simple to change as shopping for better groceries.



No, I don't believe it's good for me. And I only have one.

As Mark Twain is often quoted, "Quitting smoking is easy. I've done it a thousand times."
Wasn't trying to be nasty, but I felt you were pointing out how those parents who improperly educate their children (in my opinion of no fault of their own in many cases) about food rights and wrong (a judgement on your part).. but then you fluff off the idea that you only smoke five times a day.

regardless of where you are smoking, your kids know you smoke. it is not possible that they could think it is ok because mommy does it? I don't buy it, sorry.

I just think, that if you are ready to point fingers at the short comings of others, you have to be willing to take the heat for the same. And I, for one, find smoking to be a short-coming.

So, if it sounded like an attack, it wasn't meant that way. I just think that what is good for the goose, is good for the gander
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Old 11.07.2012, 15:53
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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Wasn't trying to be nasty, but I felt you were pointing out how those parents who improperly educate their children (in my opinion of no fault of their own in many cases) about food rights and wrong (a judgement on your part).. but then you fluff off the idea that you only smoke five times a day.

regardless of where you are smoking, your kids know you smoke. it is not possible that they could think it is ok because mommy does it? I don't buy it, sorry.

I just think, that if you are ready to point fingers at the short comings of others, you have to be willing to take the heat for the same. And I, for one, find smoking to be a short-coming.
Oh, back here in Mass., they shoot smokers on first whiff so I go to very strange extremes to conceal my habit 5 times per day. And, yes, my daughter knows I smoke since I go outdoors with a skulk but, no, I don't think she has the idea it's OK.

And I wasn't judging the moms with the McD's and the less healthy snacks as I know if I had 6 kids (as one in particular does) ranging in age from 3 to 18 (and all very round), I'd struggle to find the energy to feed them well myself. It is what it is. But I do think parents would try harder if they understood some of the long term health risks of early childhood obesity. Also, with the way the 3yo goes on about Justin Beiber, I might wonder about exposure to pop culture as well.
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  #732  
Old 11.07.2012, 16:53
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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....... Also, with the way the 3yo goes on about Justin Beiber, I might wonder about exposure to pop culture as well.
Now now, lets not go overboard here....what's wrong with Justin Bieber?
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Old 11.07.2012, 17:08
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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what's wrong with Justin Bieber?
Well, for starts, he's Canadian!

(oops, so are my kids )

Tom
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Old 11.07.2012, 17:46
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010





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It is now official that both the Federal smoking ban and the Cantonal one in Zurich will become effective on 1st May 2010. The Canton of Zurich one will be stricter than the Federal one. The Federal law sets minimum standards, but Cantons are free to be stricter. Under Federal law, small sized restaurants can declare themselves to be "smoker-places" but under Zurich law they cannot. The only problem now is that "gastronomy-chief" Mr Bachmann tries to press through a transition period of a full year. I just hope that the Cantonal government does not yield to this demand.
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Old 11.07.2012, 23:10
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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I have to say, the Basel SBB is horrible. You cannot even walk through there without 4 million people smoking, blocking every entrance. It really should be banned from all public places, so those of us who choose to not shorten our lives, have the choice to walk freely.
This problem exactly is what I mean. In fact, SBB rail-stations in Switzerland are owned by the SBB and so are Federal grounds. That was good in Zürich when the SBB was more liberal in regard to Sunday shopping than City+Canton of Zürich, but it in regard to smoking is diastrous. In Basel-SBB, a high part of that station is "open", while at least the shopping areas of stations like Luzern and Winterthur are "indoors" and so NON-smoking.

The problem on the "union-level" is that the smokers, while being a minority overall have the "Ständemehr" (majority of the Cantons) which counts heavily on a federal level.

Realize that Swiss cantons before 1798 had their own armies, their own currencies, their own measurements, their own customs authorities, and in spite of the changes of 1798, 1802, 1808, 1815, 1848 and 1874 managed to retain a lot of their powers. That sometimes is good, but sometimes is mad.
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