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Old 30.10.2009, 19:01
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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My argument is consistent, I'm saying the outright banning of smoking in pubs is wrong, there was always the option to go to non smoking pubs, people chose not to, and instead voted to ban people going to smoking ones.
No, there was NEVER an option to go to non-smoking pubs, as they did not exist.
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Old 30.10.2009, 19:09
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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Later in life what evidence there would be its because of smoking? Why not car fumes?

Im young but my dad is in late 70s, smoker throughout his youth till he quit about 15 years ago... NO health problems whatsoever, despite living in 3rd world living conditions!!! And I tell you he still Roars like a Lion!!

Same thing with my Uncles and grandfather, all smoke/smoked Hookahs, long lives and died of natural causes in their sleep!

As I said Im not convinced, Smokers are being blamed for what the Industrialists are doing in collusion with Politicians i.e. polluting our planet while diverting public attention on Smokers!!
First of all, you dad can continue smoking, in the outside-areas of bars and restaurants, on the roads, everywhere outdoors. And second, cars are not driven indoors but outdoors.
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  #143  
Old 30.10.2009, 19:31
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

While I enjoy not having smokers in restaurants, those laws can completely go out of control. In my town in California, it is even forbidden to smoke in your own car!
In fact smoking is prohibited anywhere in the city except inside a single-family detached residence...
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  #144  
Old 30.10.2009, 19:41
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

personally I like smoke free pubs, as I go take in a beer or two watch a little sport and not come home smelling like an ashtray. But do agree it can go to far, and the social stigma of being smoker is even worse.

Look at Obama, he is a smoker still (insider info) but hides it from the public.
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  #145  
Old 30.10.2009, 19:52
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

I smoke but I'm still looking forward to smoke free restaurants and pubs.
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  #146  
Old 30.10.2009, 20:12
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

We get a lot of visitors from the UK and this is good news. We live in Dornach just outside Basel and as we are in Soothurn we already have the no smoking.
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Old 30.10.2009, 20:20
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

Having experienced the smoking ban come into effect in Scotland, I am 100% for the smoking ban. First of all it is just soo much more pleasant to be in a pub, than it was before. Cleaner air, my clothes does not stink anymore, and there is no more inconsiderate Idiots, who lack the brain capacity to watch where their cigarette glow is heading and burn holes in my clothes anymore :-)

Now we just need to teach the smokers NOT to spread out evenly on the platform at the station, so there is no smokefree areas, where you can wait for the train. - and it would also be nice if some smokers would quit the habit of blowing the smoke out in the faces of all other people when boarding the train.

Last time I smoked myself was saturday. I went down on the street with a glass of Cognac, and enjoyed my cigar there. No way on earth I will have that stench in my house.

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  #148  
Old 30.10.2009, 21:06
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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Here in Zurich, all pubs allow smoking, and many are smoke filled. Worse is that in many restaurants, the nice tables are smoker tables and the nonsmoker tables are in the background, beside the toilet, etc
Ahhhh seee? Now the non-smokers want the best tables too!
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Old 31.10.2009, 10:57
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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It's a conspiracy organised by health freaks and moral prudes who want to remove anything good from our lives.

If I'm a freak about anything health oriented with regard to smoking, it is merely MY desire to be able to BREATHE.
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  #150  
Old 31.10.2009, 12:14
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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We get a lot of visitors from the UK and this is good news. We live in Dornach just outside Basel and as we are in Soothurn we already have the no smoking.
"in Solothurn" might be misleading, not least in view of the incredible Cantonal borders of that Canton. I would regard Dornach/Solothurn and Rheinfelden/Aargau as outer suburbs of Basel just as Spreitenbach is an outer suburb of Zürich.


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  #151  
Old 31.10.2009, 12:57
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

Interesting thread. I'm curious...how many of the people here were able to vote on this? I'm assuming most of the people here cannot take part in these votes (maybe I'm wrong). I'm pretty sure there are other threads that talk about silly Swiss rules, if you are against this law, think of this as another one of those rules, if you are for it, enjoy it.

My personal thought on this....I don't want people smoking next to me when I am eating (I believe most people feel this way, smoker or not). Other than that, if I decide to go out to a pub with friends, (currently) I do so knowing that the pub will be filled with smoke. If I had trouble with my lungs, I wouldn't go. If I had kids, I wouldn't bring them. That said, I've lived through this change in two other places and I think it improved both places, I hope it does the same here. If you smoke, at least it doesn't go below minus 30 here like it does in Canada...I actually feel very sorry for the people who have to go outside there to have one!
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  #152  
Old 31.10.2009, 14:01
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

And of course the daft SVP have to go & produce this: http://www.pro-rauchen.ch/
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  #153  
Old 31.10.2009, 20:08
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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Interesting thread. I'm curious...how many of the people here were able to vote on this? I'm assuming most of the people here cannot take part in these votes (maybe I'm wrong). I'm pretty sure there are other threads that talk about silly Swiss rules, if you are against this law, think of this as another one of those rules, if you are for it, enjoy it.

My personal thought on this....I don't want people smoking next to me when I am eating (I believe most people feel this way, smoker or not). Other than that, if I decide to go out to a pub with friends, (currently) I do so knowing that the pub will be filled with smoke. If I had trouble with my lungs, I wouldn't go. If I had kids, I wouldn't bring them. That said, I've lived through this change in two other places and I think it improved both places, I hope it does the same here. If you smoke, at least it doesn't go below minus 30 here like it does in Canada...I actually feel very sorry for the people who have to go outside there to have one!
whomever happens to be a local citizen HAD the possibility to vote. However, if you assume that 50% of those on this forum (or rather more) are NOT local citizens and that the participation rate generally is around 50% it is obvious that less than 20% actually ever voted on the matter.

However, I fairly often over the years abstained from taking place in a pub because they were too smoke-filled, or took a place in the outside area of a pub just meagerly covered from rain and cold.

I in fact hope that the commercial pressures from the smokers will lead more restaurant/pub/bar/café owners to keep their outdoors premises open also outside summertime. I at times felt annoyed when such folks closed their outside premises even in nice agreeable weather and told you "oh no it is closed outside" or "oh no, it is not acceptable to our employees".

I fairly often over the years have met restaurants/bars/pubs/cafés being unwilling to "serve outside" which was just an excuse for lazyness. The Lungenliga folks will have the people behind them if pressurizing against the "fumoirs" getting privileged service, but they will NOT have the people behind them if opposing outdoors service !
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  #154  
Old 31.10.2009, 20:35
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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whomever happens to be a local citizen HAD the possibility to vote.
Really? I thought you had to have citizenship to vote here, not just a resident permit.

(sorry for being off topic!)
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  #155  
Old 31.10.2009, 20:38
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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Really? I thought you had to have citizenship to vote here, not just a resident permit.

(sorry for being off topic!)
To answer an OT question, in ZH, C permit holders may vote - previous thread. Translated link also refers.
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  #156  
Old 31.10.2009, 21:34
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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Really? I thought you had to have citizenship to vote here, not just a resident permit.

(sorry for being off topic!)
A citizen is somebody with citizenship of the Canton, neither just a "resident" nor a citizen of another Canton, nor a citizen of the Canton in question but being resident in another Canton.
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  #157  
Old 02.11.2009, 13:03
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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And of course the daft SVP have to go & produce this: http://www.pro-rauchen.ch/
Another petition that may lead to a vote to overturn a previous petition and vote.

I predict that this would backfire and be soundly defeated now folk have the idea of "smoke free" at last
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Old 02.11.2009, 13:22
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

I predict it'll all go up in smoke
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Old 02.11.2009, 14:59
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

I don't know about the rest of you, but I love being able to go shopping at the Coop or Migros and not being saturated with smoke. I mean when you can smell and see the smoke in the vegetable and fruit section of a grocery store then there is something wrong. And this wasn't an off chance happening. I had to give up going to most of the grocery stores here in Vaud because of the smoking across from the store at the coffee shop which sold pastries. Smoking and Pastries?

Now that I have put my toe into the water so to speak...

I wouldn't mind the Pubs allowing smoking if (this is a big if) smoking was banned anywhere and everywhere that children were allowed to congregate. This of course means bus stops, train platforms, restaurants, etc. The sad thing is that I still see people smoking (must be their parents) in school yards and public play areas and hospitals, swimming pools, etc. I wonder what kind of mental processes are necessary for someone to engage in these behaviours around those that are most affected by the toxins that are produced.

And before someone groans at me for being a lefty radical... I have, all of my life, had asthma and am extremely sensitive to smoke and fumes of many kinds. I don't care what people do in their own time and space as long as it doesn't affect me. I don't care if people smoke, drink, shoot up, snort, whatever it is they want to do, as long as I don't have to passively do it with them. This is the real problem with smoking. I know crack users that are more polite than most of the smokers I have seen. Notice I didn't say all. I know quite a few very polite smokers too.

Unfortunately, for the population addicted to tobacco, the majority of smokers have been smoking anywhere and everywhere for far too long and there is no sense of proper behaviour. Of course, I am not sure there ever was. Social rules for smoking were set in place when it was acceptable to throw "Night Soil" out of the upper windows of houses into the street. I mean who is going to complain about a little smoke when you could get showered with feces whilst walking down the street?

As far as the idea that cars are worse than smoking. I have worked indoors around running engines and an engine running for a minute or two is not as bad as someone smoking next to me. Now if we are talking about poorly tuned diesels then you might have a point, but most petrol cars in this country run very cleanly. Of course, people don't try and pretend that engine exhaust is somehow not unhealthy for the public and therefor won't let engines run in unventilated spaces.

I have observed the following in the USA and it still holds true over here,...
If smokers were careful where they employed their vice and the owners of spaces given over to smoking were careful in their placement of smokers and non-smokers and made even an attempt at actually controlling airflow and ventilation then we wouldn't have a problem. The niceties of social convention regarding negotiating mutually respectable behaviours have been ignored. This usually leads to people into making laws and having votes on things that are annoying to those affected.

On the other hand, I will admit, that the smoking here in Switzerland has really saved us alot of money. I mean since it was impossible to go out to eat (with one or two exceptions) without being poisoned that really cut down on our eating out. I cook way more than I used to and probably eat healthier because of it.

I guess I should don the Nomex, as they say, and see what comes of it. As I have said before, I don't care if others smoke. I just don't want to have to join them by fiat. If your neighbor has a pint of beer or a glass of wine you don't join them by osmosis. This is the reason why smoking is such a big deal.

Brian
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Last edited by the_clangers; 02.11.2009 at 20:48.
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  #160  
Old 02.11.2009, 18:14
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Re: Smoking bans to be effective 1st May 2010

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Another petition that may lead to a vote to overturn a previous petition and vote.

I predict that this would backfire and be soundly defeated now folk have the idea of "smoke free" at last
An Initiative is NOT a "petition", but if accepted absolutely binding for the government. The other aspect is that, for example in the Canton of Zurich, the softer "Gegenvorschlag" of the Cantonal government was rejected by the people.
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