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  #41  
Old 29.11.2006, 17:32
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

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I still assert that bicycles should not act like cars. If they do, they will be crushed by a car or a truck. They need to compensate for their size, small visibility, slower startup and speed, less stability. Not unlike motorcycles.
you mean "Not like motorcycles", I assume? I know the other thing that can beat me away from the lights is another PTW [Powered Two Wheeler]
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  #42  
Old 29.11.2006, 17:35
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

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you mean "Not like motorcycles", I assume? I know the other thing that can beat me away from the lights is another PTW [Powered Two Wheeler]
Ok, ok, motorcycles are faster from the startup, I grant that
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  #43  
Old 29.11.2006, 17:36
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

Well, perhaps yes, you are the only one

Bikes have equal status to use a street as any other road user, hence should be accorded the same respect from other drivers, whether in a bus, truck, twike or bike. The idea of having to get off at a roundabout is ludicrous. It really isn't an 'us and them' discussion: what is evident to me as a bike rider and occassional car driver is too many car drivers act as if they own the road and fail to recognise the inherent dangers encountered on a two-wheeler. Put simply, it's selfish behaviour which nine times out of ten the car driver doesn't even realise s/he's commiting. I've lost count on the number of near misses and furious drivers blaming me for their blindness!

Obviously bad apples spoil the barrel etc. but we're discussing the principle.

There is no 'bubble' but it would be nice if car drivers saw one around us and treated the space accordingly. However, bike riders are very low down on the pecking order to some. In the meantime folks, please Think Bike
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  #44  
Old 29.11.2006, 17:42
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

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Ok, ok, motorcycles are faster from the startup, I grant that
You'll have to also grant that some cyclists are faster than a car at startup: I can beat all but the most powerful cars across an intersection when we both have a standing start at a red light. Other cyclists might be different, but for a reasonably fit cyclist on a not too heavy bike this is not very difficult. Once across the intersection (i.e., after 20 metres or so) the car will pass me (if it is not impeded by other traffic) but I'll certainly beat it at startup. As for trucks and buses, it can easily take them more than 100 metres to catch up to me after we both have a standing start.
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  #45  
Old 06.02.2007, 16:21
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

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That post about pedestrian crossings got me thinking about the behaviour of cyclists in Zuerich:
They seem to think that the laws of the road don't apply to them and happily speed through red lights and across crossings, even as people are walking.
For a generally law abiding country, cyclists really do seem to be quite reckless.
The other evening the lights were on green for me (pedestrian) to cross the road. I saw that a cyclist was approaching, but I just ignored him and pretended that I had not seen him and kept on walking. I knew, that if neither one of us would stop, that we would crash ... but luckily he stopped and I kept on walking still pretending I had not seen him.

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The cyclist did not have any lights or reflectors so she did not see him straight away.
I totally agree. Often they don't have the lights on and even in the city where there are a street lights it can be difficult to see them sometimes. Out in the country where we live, there are cyclist that think they do not need light at night (no street lights on these roads) on a 80 km/h road and wearing dark clothing (making it even more difficult to see them) is fine as well.
If the police never fines the cyclists for not having functioning lights switched on on their bikes, then the situation will never change. But the police rather fine car drivers for driving 2 km/h too fast.
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  #46  
Old 02.03.2007, 15:33
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

Doesn't the law state that the smaller you are the more right of way you have ie pedestrians, then cyclists then cars.

Of course there is no excuse to break any law, eg red lights, speeding.

how many motorsits dont speed.

Cyclists don't get many chances to speed, so they run red lights.

Cyclists copping a red light ticket are just as annoyed as drivers getting a speeding ticket.

relax, share, be courteous.

Go to the pub.

Just dont ride or drive drunk.
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  #47  
Old 06.06.2007, 20:21
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

:m snmad:

I nearly killed three cyclists last week. I was going round a roundabout, like you do, and they joined from the right slap in front of me. I was in my car (raining, scared of rain on t'bike) and only by braking very hard and throwing it left onto the center island did I avoid the stupid feckers. I then proceeded to have a bit of road rage and gave them a good old horning (ooer sounds a bit rude) as I followed them down the road.

The really, really annoying thing was that they didn't acknowledge their mistake in any way whatsoever.
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  #48  
Old 06.06.2007, 21:57
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

This could go on forever!

After being 'horned' for about 20 seconds, having done nothing wrong other than assert my right of way, I jumped off my bike to confront the stupid 'fecker' who thought I should make way for her on a roundabout. She jumped out of the car yelling her perspective. I calmly told her she didn't have right of way and explained why. The only response once she realised she was wrong was a dismissive "S'guät" (trans: 'it's alright')

Phew, that's what you get for not being in the wrong.

So for the record, having cleared this with a local Bobby, when approaching roundabouts the vehicle on your left has right of way, unlike most junctions where traffic on your right has the right. This should be kinda straightforward...

I find an incredible number of road users are unaware of this.

(Swissbob, was that you on Dufourstrasse yelling at everyone? )
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  #49  
Old 06.06.2007, 22:20
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

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The really, really annoying thing was that they didn't acknowledge their mistake in any way whatsoever.
Did you momentarily forget which country you were in

No-one acknowledges mistakes.
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  #50  
Old 06.06.2007, 23:15
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

I think this will light-up your day a little.

A good friend of the missus got fined CHF80 for cycling through a red light.
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  #51  
Old 06.06.2007, 23:31
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

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So for the record, having cleared this with a local Bobby, when approaching roundabouts the vehicle on your left has right of way, unlike most junctions where traffic on your right has the right. This should be kinda straightforward...

I find an incredible number of road users are unaware of this.

Actually, your locaL fuzz should have qualified that as it doesn't apply to all roundabouts. There are a good number of mini roundabouts where those joining from the right have right of way - mad but true. I think he clue is the road markings - no dashed 'give way' line = you have the right of way.
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  #52  
Old 04.09.2007, 07:57
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

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What are the other things that irk me? Riding bikes through pedestrian areas, or riding across pedestrian crossing. My personal rule is if they dismount I consider them pedestrians and I will stop - otherwise I will not stop!
I have now adopted this rule too.

The law (according the the cycling training that my kids just did) says they must dismount 50 meters before the crossing and approach it on foot, otherwise they are not allowed to use the crossing. If you did hit someone cycling across a pedestrian crossing then it's their fault.
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  #53  
Old 04.09.2007, 09:29
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

Not wishing to get too deeply into the argument (as there's a lot of idiots on both types of transport on the roads, which is probably where this stems from), anyone else get cheesed off with the 'look for motorcylces' ads in the UK a year or two ago?
the first one being the 'now you see him, now you don't' where a guy is looking in his rear-view mirror as a moped weaves about the road behind him and is obviously driving too close. The car slows and indicates to take a right with no sign of the moped behind him and the car hits him as it turns. The advert makes out it's the car's fault. Hmmmmm.
The second is the 'look again for bikes' where a chap is at a junction waiting to turn left, he looks both ways and a bike goes into the side of him as he turns. Then they show the same scene where he looks again the bike pootles along at 20 mph. My major beef with the ad is that the boke in the first scene must have done in excess of 85 mph in a 30 mph zone (a: there's street lights, so 30 mph; b: no. of street lights the bike must have passed means av. speed of 85-90 mph before hitting the car). Once again, the biker in the ad was in the wrong.
This has nothing to do with whther bikers are bad drivers, etc, but that the ads blame drivers for all instances where bikers get injured regardless of whther they were driving badly or not.

ps: I don't have a bike, motorbike or a car...
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  #54  
Old 04.09.2007, 09:51
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

I have all the respect for people who observe the proper rules of driving. I own motorcycles, cars, bikes, blades, etc. But the idiots who drive up yer arse, in your lane, beside you, etc... no matter what they drive, should be hauled off the road and have their transportation crushed.
It seems some drivers believe they have special authorities on the roads. We were taught (with no special markings on the road) each motor vehicle had rights to one car size on the road. No shoulder riding, white line or yellow line passing, weaving, etc.
If cars tried to pass on the curb, they would be fined, why should bikes or scooters be allowed to do it justfully?
Bicyclists are another breed who think they can drive and pass wherever they please. Everybody has common sense, but few cyclists I have seen in the cities use it. They should know that the right side of any vehicle is a blind spot and act accordingly (look for signal lights flashing) instead of zipping past all the cars to make the green light in time...
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  #55  
Old 04.09.2007, 10:50
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

Yes, the instant "change of mode" people, mostly cyclists.

They are in the middle of the road and want to be treated like a car (fair enough), then queue before a light comes, and they become a cycle-lane-in-the-verge type and pass everybody on the inside, and then when they get to the red-light, they flick onto the footpath and become a pedestrian for the green man before wheeling down the street and taking a completely un-signalled left-hand turn across a zebra crossing, and ask to be treated like a pedestrian again!!

Some people are their own worst enemies...
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  #56  
Old 04.09.2007, 12:32
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

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I have now adopted this rule too.
I handle it like this, too.

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The law (according the the cycling training that my kids just did) says they must dismount 50 meters before the crossing and approach it on foot, otherwise they are not allowed to use the crossing. If you did hit someone cycling across a pedestrian crossing then it's their fault.
The law doesn't allow driving on the sidewalk and pedestrian crossings at all I think. I was told in traffic education to walk to pedestrian crossings if they're less than 50 meters away. By the time I took the school's bicycle test I was already ten years old and required to drive my bicycle on the street.

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Actually, your locaL fuzz should have qualified that as it doesn't apply to all roundabouts. There are a good number of mini roundabouts where those joining from the right have right of way - mad but true. I think he clue is the road markings - no dashed 'give way' line = you have the right of way.
Yeah these "mini roundabouts" were designed as traffic calming obstacles but many were stupidly built in a circular shape in the nineties. Some communes tried hard to get rid of them a few years after installing them when they realised the idiocy.

It's not a roundabout until there are markings and traffic signs. Drivers have to get used to traffic calming obstacles in all forms and places now...
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  #57  
Old 04.09.2007, 12:48
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

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I have now adopted this rule too.

The law (according the the cycling training that my kids just did) says they must dismount 50 meters before the crossing and approach it on foot, otherwise they are not allowed to use the crossing. If you did hit someone cycling across a pedestrian crossing then it's their fault.
Quite a few cycle routes in urban areas run parallel to pedestrian crossings - with seperate 'pistes' - so please don't see those rule-abiding cyclists as targets
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  #58  
Old 04.09.2007, 12:57
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

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Quite a few cycle routes in urban areas run parallel to pedestrian crossings - with seperate 'pistes' - so please don't see those rule-abiding cyclists as targets
However these cycle routes over roads have 'give-way teeth' to show cyclists the do not have the right of way or any priority.

The reason is simple. When a pedestrian walks out motorist are used to and can calculate the speed of the pedestrian crossing. Cyclist coming out at double or treble walking pace without stopping or looking (and I've nearly mowed over a few of those) are grossly unfair to motorists who will have their deaths on the cyclist on their conscious for the rest of their lives...
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  #59  
Old 04.09.2007, 16:01
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

The main gist of this entire thread seems to be that stupidity is universally applied.

Ridng a bike into the path of a car or truck is akin to walking in front of a train.


Won't be much consolation that the other person was given a fine when you're laid up in the hospital, or worse yet laid down in the ground...
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  #60  
Old 05.09.2007, 15:43
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Re: Cyclists who don't follow the laws of the road.

True, enough. But what I don't understand is the aggressiveness of the cyclists that you (eg) don't find in motorcyclists. I ride a motorcycle and like 99% of other riders, I understand that I am very vulnerable.

I also ride a bicycle and understand I am even more vulernable (and slow). But I'm amazed at the attitude of cyclists who want to be aggressive prats about it.

"You are small and soft, they are big and hard. You will die and they won't even get a scratch on their paint! Be Humble!"
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