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Old 02.01.2010, 23:03
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what determines your nationality?

What makes someone swiss in your opinion? I have been thinking about it because if i do obtain the swiss passport i would most definitely want to keep my irish one, as i feel thats my identity as thats where i was born and raised..yet being born in switzerland doesn't give you the right to say you are swiss... So what exactly determines nationality?? even if you are raised here it is still put under speculation. Here its something thats bestowed on you!

And secondly I've been reading a few threads lately and keep coming across the expression of how all us expats are "guests" in this coutry!?? when do you stop being a guest and start being a contributing taxpayer, inhabitiant, etc. i hate the term guest! it sounds "touristy".. and i am no longer a tourist.
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Old 02.01.2010, 23:31
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Re: what determines your nationality?

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What makes someone swiss in your opinion?
It may be different for every body, even for the Swiss. As I am bilingual French-German, I sometimes lie about my origines, just for fun. I end up being seen as prime example of Romand in Basel or so typical Geneva in Delemont, or even so Germany-German in Zürich. Perception depends also on who you let people think you are, not that much on facts of your biography. I even told once that I was Belgian just to give non-Swiss French haters an explanation they could live with that I am fluent in Dutch. It worked wonderfully although I at that time never had been in Belgium.

Back to your question: I let myself convince very easily, I take people's word for it if they want to be seen as Swiss. I can understand that origine can be very important for some poeple, so I just play along and decide on the spot what I make them belive about me. That untertains me.
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Old 02.01.2010, 23:37
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Re: what determines your nationality?

To be Swiss, a person must fulfil the following criteria.





A Swiss person must:
  • Be short in stature, dwell in the Alps, and have hairy feet, like a hobbit; if he has the demeanour of a goblin, this makes him even more Swiss: He should be proud.
  • Be very particular about money. When paying for a meal at a restaurant, he must remove his calculator from his pocket, procure a biro and a napkin and proceed to deface the latter with arcane scribblings from the former until the ink runs dry or the other guests leave because the cock has crowed.
  • Be very proud of his nation. He must cry when he hears the Alphorn. He must know all the words to the Schweizerpsalm. He must tut loudly at people of Balkan origin at every opportunity.
  • Use foul green Glarnerish cheese at the dining table least four times a year, and Aromat at every meal.
  • Know his community's bin bags and be able to recognise one from a hundred paces. Blindfolded.
  • Insist that DJ Bobo is an internationally famous pop star. No, really.
  • Be able to use his shoulders to get onto a train, off a train, to the counter of the kiosk, first into the lifeboat of the sinking cruiseliner containing several dozen nuns and the ragged residents of an orphanage.
  • Know how to purse his lips and twitch his curtains.
  • Sigh at the sight of a hairy red and brown blanket with a cross on it.
  • Understand the rules of Jass.
  • Enjoy watching Jass on the television.
  • Know how to build a fire in the woods and cook a cervelat on it.
  • Know he is right. Always. Except when he's not.
I hope this helps.
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Old 02.01.2010, 23:48
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Re: what determines your nationality?

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To be Swiss, a person must fulfil the following criteria.







A Swiss person must:
  • Be short in stature, dwell in the Alps, and have hairy feet, like a hobbit; if he has the demeanour of a goblin, this makes him even more Swiss: He should be proud.
  • Be very particular about money. When paying for a meal at a restaurant, he must remove his calculator from his pocket, procure a biro and a napkin and proceed to deface the latter with arcane scribblings from the former until the ink runs dry or the other guests leave because the cock has crowed.
  • Be very proud of his nation. He must cry when he hears the Alphorn. He must know all the words to the Schweizerpsalm. He must tut loudly at people of Balkan origin at every opportunity.
  • Use foul green Glarnerish cheese at the dining table least four times a year, and Aromat at every meal.
  • Know his community's bin bags and be able to recognise one from a hundred paces. Blindfolded.
  • Insist that DJ Bobo is an internationally famous pop star. No, really.
  • Be able to use his shoulders to get onto a train, off a train, to the counter of the kiosk, first into the lifeboat of the sinking cruiseliner containing several dozen nuns and the ragged residents of an orphanage.
  • Know how to purse his lips and twitch his curtains.
  • Sigh at the sight of a hairy red and brown blanket with a cross on it.
  • Understand the rules of Jass.
  • Enjoy watching Jass on the television.
  • Know how to build a fire in the woods and cook a cervelat on it.
  • Know he is right. Always. Except when he's not.
I hope this helps.
$hit !I think I have to hand in my passport,it is truly a sad day I am in need of a friend
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Old 03.01.2010, 00:02
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Re: what determines your nationality?

I became a Swiss Citizen in 1982. I spoke a smattering of the language and was totally homesick. I loved the man I married though. I learned the language by being the bottom of the pecking order where I was employed. I was exposed to it it at least 11 hours a day. Mind you, if not for my husbands family I would have learned a very peculiar Swiss German, my S/G co-workers had this funny pointy finger "du putzen here" strangled kind of patois when talking to me.

I consider myself sort of Swiss now as I've lived here quite a lot of years. I don't fit in to many categories. I'm not expat, I'm not Swiss and I'm certainly not the Lass that left my home shores.

It's not a big deal though, I'm quite happy with my life and meself, if others have a problem with it, tough titty.
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Old 03.01.2010, 00:22
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Re: what determines your nationality?

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I became a Swiss Citizen in 1982. I spoke a smattering of the language and was totally homesick. I loved the man I married though. I learned the language by being the bottom of the pecking order where I was employed. I was exposed to it it at least 11 hours a day. Mind you, if not for my husbands family I would have learned a very peculiar Swiss German, my S/G co-workers had this funny pointy finger "du putzen here" strangled kind of patois when talking to me.

I consider myself sort of Swiss now as I've lived here quite a lot of years. I don't fit in to many categories. I'm not expat, I'm not Swiss and I'm certainly not the Lass that left my home shores.

It's not a big deal though, I'm quite happy with my life and meself, if others have a problem with it, tough titty.
I have no problem with this at all,you have my highest respect.Hat off
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Old 03.01.2010, 08:26
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Re: what determines your nationality?

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What makes someone swiss in your opinion? I have been thinking about it because if i do obtain the swiss passport i would most definitely want to keep my irish one, as i feel thats my identity as thats where i was born and raised..yet being born in switzerland doesn't give you the right to say you are swiss... So what exactly determines nationality?? even if you are raised here it is still put under speculation. Here its something thats bestowed on you!

And secondly I've been reading a few threads lately and keep coming across the expression of how all us expats are "guests" in this coutry!?? when do you stop being a guest and start being a contributing taxpayer, inhabitiant, etc. i hate the term guest! it sounds "touristy".. and i am no longer a tourist.
When you become Swiss you can retain as many passports as you wish. "Nationality" by Swiss standards has nothing to do with the place of birth but with citizenship. You only have to realize that you can become "Swiss" but you will legally become citizen of one of the Cantons, and your identity-card or passport is (on request) issued by the state-chancellory of that Canton. You when becoming "Swiss" will not get either but a "Bürger-Ausweis" which you are to keep, but it is no identification document. You rather should get an identity-card which is the usual identification- & travel-document of people here.
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Old 03.01.2010, 08:37
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Re: what determines your nationality?

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I became a Swiss Citizen in 1982. I spoke a smattering of the language and was totally homesick. I loved the man I married though. I learned the language by being the bottom of the pecking order where I was employed. I was exposed to it it at least 11 hours a day. Mind you, if not for my husbands family I would have learned a very peculiar Swiss German, my S/G co-workers had this funny pointy finger "du putzen here" strangled kind of patois when talking to me.

I consider myself sort of Swiss now as I've lived here quite a lot of years. I don't fit in to many categories. I'm not expat, I'm not Swiss and I'm certainly not the Lass that left my home shores.

It's not a big deal though, I'm quite happy with my life and meself, if others have a problem with it, tough titty.
As you are citizen here, you ARE Swiss.
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Old 03.01.2010, 08:41
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Re: what determines your nationality?

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When you become Swiss you can retain as many passports as you wish.
Not entirely true. There are countries that forbid dual nationality, for example, Japan.
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Old 03.01.2010, 08:52
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Re: what determines your nationality?

Easy. Passport determines nationality. If I get a Swiss passport, I'll have two nationalities - British and Swiss.

However, I guess your talking about your own feeling of national identity. For that, I'd have to say "Yorkshire".
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Old 03.01.2010, 10:32
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Re: what determines your nationality?

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Not entirely true. There are countries that forbid dual nationality, for example, Japan.

Maybe, but Switzerland does not care. Italy for decades forbid dual nationality, but thousands became Swiss and retained Italian nationality. They only had to leave their Swiss ID back in Switzerland when travelling to Italy. Switzerland does NOT notify the diplomatic missions of other countries about naturalisations. So that a Japanese who becomes Swiss can retain the Japanese nationality, but of course never tell Japanese authorities about this.
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Old 03.01.2010, 10:48
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Re: what determines your nationality?

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Easy. Passport determines nationality. If I get a Swiss passport, I'll have two nationalities - British and Swiss.

However, I guess your talking about your own feeling of national identity. For that, I'd have to say "Yorkshire".
Passports are irrelevent in Switzerland. If you become a Swiss citizen (citizen of your Canton) you get a document which confirms your having become a citizen of the Canton in question but is not to be used as an identification. Most Swiss people however have an ID (identity card) but this has to be obtained (purchased). Only a minority has a passport, and of these passports most have expired anyway. This is similar all over Continental Western Europe where people have become used to IDs since the late 1940ies.

If you want an Identity Card, you can go to the "Einwohner-Kontrolle" of your place of residence. In many places you there also can order a passport (if required), in many other places they will tell you that for a passport you have to go to a Cantonal passport office. When travelling around in Europe (exceptions: U.K., and some others) you not only can but SHOULD use the ID, as it saves time for you, the official and those behind you, as the official can see the relevant data with one glance, while he in the passport has to look at between three to six pages. That the ID only costs half as much as a passport and that the ID is valid for 10 years and has credit-card format are other advantages.

If travelling to the U.K. with an ID only, they at British customs issue a "Visitor Card" which you can keep after having left, as it shows entry, departure and of course the limitation of stay.

--- ---- ----- ----

To revert to the passport-idea. Passports only are given to naturalized foreigners by the SVP propaganda but not in reality.
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Old 03.01.2010, 10:57
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Re: what determines your nationality?

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Passports are irrelevent in Switzerland. If you become a Swiss citizen (citizen of your Canton) you get a document which confirms your having become a citizen of the Canton in question but is not to be used as an identification. Most Swiss people however have an ID (identity card) but this has to be obtained (purchased). Only a minority has a passport, and of these passports most have expired anyway. This is similar all over Continental Western Europe where people have become used to IDs since the late 1940ies.

If you want an Identity Card, you can go to the "Einwohner-Kontrolle" of your place of residence. In many places you there also can order a passport (if required), in many other places they will tell you that for a passport you have to go to a Cantonal passport office. When travelling around in Europe (exceptions: U.K., and some others) you not only can but SHOULD use the ID, as it saves time for you, the official and those behind you, as the official can see the relevant data with one glance, while he in the passport has to look at between three to six pages. That the ID only costs half as much as a passport and that the ID is valid for 10 years and has credit-card format are other advantages.

If travelling to the U.K. with an ID only, they at British customs issue a "Visitor Card" which you can keep after having left, as it shows entry, departure and of course the limitation of stay.
Question; Can I,my wife my kids obtain this ID card in a foreign country ,like Canada ,USA ?
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Old 03.01.2010, 10:59
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Re: what determines your nationality?

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Maybe, but Switzerland does not care. Italy for decades forbid dual nationality, but thousands became Swiss and retained Italian nationality. They only had to leave their Swiss ID back in Switzerland when travelling to Italy. Switzerland does NOT notify the diplomatic missions of other countries about naturalisations. So that a Japanese who becomes Swiss can retain the Japanese nationality, but of course never tell Japanese authorities about this.
It wasn't that long ago that this wasn't the case. I had to return my British Passport to the Swiss authorities (Geneva). I then called the British embassy and they returned it to me. My brother had to actually renounce his British citizenship (Zürich) in writing. He was able to regain it as, apparently IIRC, there is some regulation which allows a British citizen to renounce their citizenship once in order to acquire another nationality = sounds as weird and wonderful as it did back then...
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Old 03.01.2010, 11:02
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Re: what determines your nationality?

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Question; Can I,my wife my kids obtain this ID card in a foreign country ,like Canada ,USA ?
YES, you can contact the nearest Swiss consulate, consulate general or embassy. I think that you have to go there in person in the end as they have to see that the photographies correspond with the persons. In your case, I suggest to obtain BOTH, an ID AND a passport. The combination is a bit cheaper than each of the docs separately.
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Old 03.01.2010, 11:16
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Re: what determines your nationality?

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It wasn't that long ago that this wasn't the case. I had to return my British Passport to the Swiss authorities (Geneva). I then called the British embassy and they returned it to me. My brother had to actually renounce his British citizenship (Zürich) in writing. He was able to regain it as, apparently IIRC, there is some regulation which allows a British citizen to renounce their citizenship once in order to acquire another nationality = sounds as weird and wonderful as it did back then...
Such things of course vary from Canton to Canton. To clarify some points:

> You had to hand in the passport for check-up purposes

> You did NOT hand it to "Swiss authorities" but to the Republic and Canton of Geneva, supposedly to THIS address :
Chancellerie d'Etat
Rue de l'Hôtel-de-Ville 2
Case postale 3964
1211 Genève 3
Les bureaux sont ouverts au public :
le matin : lundi à vendredi de 8 h à 12 h
l'après-midi : lundi à jeudi de 14 h à 17 h 45, le vendredi de 14 h à 17 h 30
??


> to renounce the British citizenship may be a bureaucratic requirement, as Switzerland (similar to the USA) wants ITS citizenship to get priority over the others
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Old 03.01.2010, 11:17
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Re: what determines your nationality?

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Passports are irrelevent in Switzerland. If you become a Swiss citizen (citizen of your Canton) you get a document which confirms your having become a citizen of the Canton in question but is not to be used as an identification. Most Swiss people however have an ID (identity card) but this has to be obtained (purchased). Only a minority has a passport, and of these passports most have expired anyway. This is similar all over Continental Western Europe where people have become used to IDs since the late 1940ies.

If you want an Identity Card, you can go to the "Einwohner-Kontrolle" of your place of residence. In many places you there also can order a passport (if required), in many other places they will tell you that for a passport you have to go to a Cantonal passport office. When travelling around in Europe (exceptions: U.K., and some others) you not only can but SHOULD use the ID, as it saves time for you, the official and those behind you, as the official can see the relevant data with one glance, while he in the passport has to look at between three to six pages. That the ID only costs half as much as a passport and that the ID is valid for 10 years and has credit-card format are other advantages.

If travelling to the U.K. with an ID only, they at British customs issue a "Visitor Card" which you can keep after having left, as it shows entry, departure and of course the limitation of stay.

--- ---- ----- ----

To revert to the passport-idea. Passports only are given to naturalized foreigners by the SVP propaganda but not in reality.
My husband has only used his ID card to travel to the UK - and has never received this "visitor card". There's really no limitation of stay for Swiss in the UK, due to free movement.

My passport has all the same info on one page that my ID card has.
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Old 03.01.2010, 11:38
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Re: what determines your nationality?

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> You did NOT hand it to "Swiss authorities" but to the Republic and Canton of Geneva,
You are of course correct and as a naturalised "republicain" it was an unforgiveable error!!
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Old 03.01.2010, 12:26
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Re: what determines your nationality?

what determines your nationality?



Legally, it's whatever your passport/s says.

Emotionally- it's where you were raised. ( providing you do have emotional ties to the country you grew up in)

Can be a complicated issue.
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Old 03.01.2010, 13:42
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Re: what determines your nationality?

This is an interesting question, and despite the legalities of passports and identity cards, I feel its the country you identify with. I was raised in Australia with Dutch parents so identify with both nationalities. Our sons have lived here for as long as they lived in Australia and seeing as they were babies in Australia, I suspect they 'feel' more at home here, even though their grandparents are 16,000km away. We were talking the other night and wondered 'where' our sons will feel 'at home' in years to come, especially if we move again, which with work is entirely possible. I agree with Wollishofer - while in Switzerland, we consider ourselves somewhat swiss!! Are you concerned about this or feel you don't feel part of your old or new country you live in?
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