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  #81  
Old 20.01.2010, 08:01
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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This reminds me of something a guy I met at a party told me about Switzerland after spending 4 years in the country. Something about people keeping others at arm's length. I was told to expect feeling lonely because people don't hug and while they may be nice, making friends is a lot harder.

To be honest, it sounded depressing. He's now in London. I'm not sure how much nicer London is.

I hug quite a few of my friends in Toronto, and a standard family greetings includes a handshake and kisses on each cheek (that may be somewhat quebec and Iran-culture-based).
That's not completely true. In the French part of Switzerland they do the three kisses on the cheek thing. I don't get into it myself, because I don't want to be that close to other peoples faces. As an American I don't mind the Hugging.
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Old 20.01.2010, 08:37
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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I bow to your knowledge in many areas Wollishofener, but it is clear you have much to learn in regard to British-style beer. Murphy Red is but a pale, industrial imitation of the real thing.
As a (lapsed) CAMRA member, I feel your pain, and know exactly the problem you face. When I discovered the last train from Waldshut back to Baden (where I live) leaves at 23.30, I discovered my current solution to the Swiss Beer Problem (tm): go to Germany. Beer for about €3.50 a pint (well, half litre), and actually of a good quality. Sure, it's not the same style as English beer, but at least it has these unexpected qualities such as flavour and colour. The other good beer solution I've found (apart from arrange a trip back to the UK) is head over to Basel and find somewhere serving Unser Bier, which is well worth the effort (particularly the Amber and the Schwartz).

Robin
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  #83  
Old 20.01.2010, 08:42
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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That's not completely true. In the French part of Switzerland they do the three kisses on the cheek thing. I don't get into it myself, because I don't want to be that close to other peoples faces. As an American I don't mind the Hugging.
This is only done with people you know well, not everybody you meet which is a very common mistake people often make
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  #84  
Old 20.01.2010, 08:48
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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I do understand what you're saying I really do. But I feel that unless you've been brought up with a system which says that your health is an inalienable right, that you can turn up to any doctor anywhere with no ID, and they won't make you complete a form, won't make you prove that you're a citizen, or tax payer or even legal resident - won't make you even give you name. And they'll treat you for free. And they'll give you pharmaceuticals, as much as you need - for free.
It ain't that simple. First you need to find a doctor that is taking new patients. Getting an appointment means taking a day off work to sit in a waiting room for over an hour and to get an appointment on the day you need to be an emergency case. To see any specialist on the NHS requires a waiting period, but paying privately I could see a consultant on the same day.

Getting even the pill required a prescription and I would have needed to take a day off work to get one. I was told to try the family planning center who then lectured me on unprotected sex, unwanted pregnancies and asking if I had multiple partners I was 22, so I guess they wanted to shock me, but they were very surprised when I showed them my wedding ring.
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  #85  
Old 20.01.2010, 08:57
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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This is only done with people you know well, not everybody you meet which is a very common mistake people often make
Ah, that would explain why I don't do it. I know lots of people but not any that well.
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  #86  
Old 20.01.2010, 09:15
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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It ain't that simple. First you need to find a doctor that is taking new patients.
A surgery is mandated to accept you if you are within its catchment area. If a surgery has taken the normally arduous steps to formally close its book of patients (unusual) your PCT will be able to find you a GP immediately.

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Getting an appointment means taking a day off work to sit in a waiting room for over an hour and to get an appointment on the day you need to be an emergency case. To see any specialist on the NHS requires a waiting period, but paying privately I could see a consultant on the same day.
Emergencies are emergencies yes. You'll see your GP within 2 days for non-emergency cases 9 out of 10 times. If you are feeling really bad, call the surgery when you wake up in the morning and they'll always find you a slot that day. For non emergencies I normally just go into work at 10 or so. No more or less than private.

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Getting even the pill required a prescription
A repeat prescription, which can be requested by phone and collected at your convenience. Also prescribed contraceptives are 100% free on the NHS.
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  #87  
Old 20.01.2010, 09:18
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

labour
conservative
liberals
bnp
cadbury's/ kraft
banks
brown
afghanistan war ( amongst others )
human rights
safety
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  #88  
Old 20.01.2010, 09:25
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

And in the interest of balance:

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labour THE SVP
conservative THE SVP
liberals THE SVP
bnp THE SVP
cadbury's/ kraft Fondue (a bucket of bad melted cheese mixed with bad wine)
banks banks
brown THE SVP
afghanistan war ( amongst others ) Avowed pacifism even against the Nazis.
human rights Regularly acts as liaison to Iran etc...NIMBY attitude to the world scene.
safety worst service culture in the western world (get used to waitresses trying their best to ignore you)
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  #89  
Old 20.01.2010, 09:52
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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The benefit of Switzerland over the United Kingdom, apart from the obvious advantage of being further away from Scotland, is the absence of an indigenous proletariat.

Nowhere in Switzerland will you find a pinch faced little scrote, clutching a can of cheap cider, spitting on the pavement, planning on getting his scabby-ankled dam up the duff so he can spend the Child Benefit on crack and rizlas. No, we have none of that here: We have imported proletarians that can be shipped back to sender at a moment's notice as soon as they make troublesome demands for things like suffrage and minarets.

Indeed, these temporary proles, or Auslanders, as they are sometimes known, are kept in secure camps in which they are constantly reminded that they are Guests here and that they should jolly well be grateful for that. One of these camps is located near Zurich, and is humourously known as the "Gold Coast". There are, however, many others scattered throughout the nation.

Since the foreign plebs know their place, and are rarely permitted to venture into the heartlands of the nation, where most of the proper, indigenous Swiss people live (such as the rural idyll popularly known as Congo), the aborigines of Switzerland enjoy an undisturbed feeling of purity and wellbeing that a modern Englishman could only dream of in his own country, run, as it is, by Muslims and Scotsmen for their own foul ends.

I suggest you come over right away, get yourself a Little Red Passport, and start eating the green cheese of Glarus and the red Rivella of Migros without delay. Within months you'll be able to rattle your stick along the railings of the secure accommodation for foreigners with impunity, safe in the knowledge that they are not like you.

You won't miss England for even a minute.
Poor DB is suffering from disorientation last experienced that summer spent straying the lawns of Glyndebourne looking for a G&T in a sea of champagne. Having been forced to leave England after an unfortunate slip of the tongue whilst bedding a representative of Her Majesty’s Revenue, he was aghast to discover that his private income could barely sustain him, let alone his gentleman’s gentleman. The RAV representative, apparently lacking an expert eye when it comes to judging dinner jacket tailoring, not only forced him to enter into gainful employment but also insisted that he apply for the position of breakfast waiter at Santa Lucia. It wasn’t quite the welcome he was expecting and he still isn’t sure where it all went wrong …
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  #90  
Old 20.01.2010, 09:53
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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And in the interest of balance:


cadbury's/ kraft Fondue (a bucket of bad melted cheese mixed with bad wine)
But, let's be fair. Making Fondue and Raclette into cuisine is brilliant.
I mean, yeah someone long ago had some dubious cheese and mixed it all up, melted it and added some wine to keep it thinned. Then they were able to use up their stale bread and left over bits of potato and such.

Also imagine the scene when some peasant left a block of hard cheese next to the fire and it melted. To keep from loosing most of the cheese they would have scraped it onto bread or potatoes or what have you and Raclette was born.

Very clever.
Brian.
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Old 20.01.2010, 10:11
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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The NHS is a magnificent UK service.
No, it is not. It might have been..
You can call the French an excellent national health system, the Italian a good national system, but the UK NHS is mediocre. Sorry to say.
The UK NHS is lacking in many sides, prevention be one.
If you ask your GP for a check up, in many cases he turns you away saying "come back when you have life threatening symptoms."

And here:

Liver cancer drug 'too expensive'


NICE decision on liver cancer drug Nexavar condemned

Quote:
"It is soul-destroying after contributing to the NHS all your life that the one time you need it to give you more precious time with your family, the system fails you.
"Living each day in the knowledge that you only have a little time left is so so painful, but the feeling of hopelessness is devastating when you are told the price is 'simply too high'.
It just makes me crying reading the families comments.. that cannot be considered a magnificent system. Sorry
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Old 20.01.2010, 10:15
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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As a (lapsed) CAMRA member, I feel your pain, and know exactly the problem you face. When I discovered the last train from Waldshut back to Baden (where I live) leaves at 23.30, I discovered my current solution to the Swiss Beer Problem (tm): go to Germany. Beer for about €3.50 a pint (well, half litre), and actually of a good quality. Sure, it's not the same style as English beer, but at least it has these unexpected qualities such as flavour and colour. The other good beer solution I've found (apart from arrange a trip back to the UK) is head over to Basel and find somewhere serving Unser Bier, which is well worth the effort (particularly the Amber and the Schwartz).

Robin
Hi Robin, I share your concern over the beer situation over here (and especially in Baden). I haven't found anywhere selling proper English real ale, but I agree with you that German beer is just as good. If you ever can't be bothered to go to Germany just so you can get a good pint, there's a place in Zürich near the Polybahn end of the Niederdorf that sells Paulaner Salvator and Schneider Weisse on tap, and Schneider Aventinus in bottles, at reasonable prices. (They also sell a few other types of beer, but I forgot what they were as soon as I saw Salvator and Aventinus (I am partial to the stronger brews )). I can probably find out the name if you're interested - let me know.

Also, in Nussbaumen (about a mile from Baden), there is a real Swiss PUB (ie, not the typical expat-targetted monstrosity or overpriced trendy bar). On tap they only have Feldschlossen, but they sell about three different German weissbeers in bottles. Probably worth a trip if you're only in Baden. The place is called Vehgass and is at Kirchweg 18, Nussbaumen.

Cheers
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Old 20.01.2010, 10:54
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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No, it is not. It might have been..
You can call the French an excellent national health system, the Italian a good national system, but the UK NHS is mediocre. Sorry to say.
The UK NHS is lacking in many sides, prevention be one.
If you ask your GP for a check up, in many cases he turns you away saying "come back when you have life threatening symptoms."

And here:

Liver cancer drug 'too expensive'

NICE decision on liver cancer drug Nexavar condemned

It just makes me crying reading the families comments.. that cannot be considered a magnificent system. Sorry
It is a great system actually, sorry. The statement above about GP's is made up and you know it. Turned away unless "life threatening symptoms" is just not true and I think you know this.

The articles on drugs not being allowed because of cost are routinely brought up by people who slate the NHS, which is a pity. For the money available to it there has to be a line drawn as to what is and isnt financially viable. I still think that point of entry universal healthcare for a country of 60 million is magificent. Sorry.
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Old 20.01.2010, 11:05
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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No, it is not. It might have been..
You can call the French an excellent national health system, the Italian a good national system, but the UK NHS is mediocre. Sorry to say.
The UK NHS is lacking in many sides, prevention be one.
If you ask your GP for a check up, in many cases he turns you away saying "come back when you have life threatening symptoms."

And here:

Liver cancer drug 'too expensive'

NICE decision on liver cancer drug Nexavar condemned

It just makes me crying reading the families comments.. that cannot be considered a magnificent system. Sorry
Sad... but cobblers.

The NHS does not have an limitless money pot, and with any budget tough choices have to be made. The cases of the NHS sending people abroad is far, far less than the number of 'health tourist' and people who have made no NI contributions yet fully benefit from the free POD service, making the tough decisions the PCT's and NICE make all the harder, and leading to tabloid headlines.

This country makes insurance compulsory, the UK offer a free service that anyone can supplement if they chose, and that is the point. Stay solely NHS and you may have to wait, go private and pay (as you do here) and things move more speedily.

My MIL had a hip replaced on the NHS and had to wait 7 months, cost NIL. When the other hip started to fail she didn't want to wait and paid privately, same hospital, the bed opposite (the one she was in previously), same plastic joint, same surgeon, same length of stay... wait 3 weeks, cost £11,000 (ish).

When visiting me in France, my uncle had a stroke, the emergency ambulance was called and on the way to hospital pulled over and stopped, I was in the car behind, and the driver flagged me down asking how I was going to pay for the ambulance as my uncle was English. Delay 10 minutes, for a stroke victim time is of the essence.... unless you are a French ambulance driver.

So all NHS knockers suck up the imperfections, and be thankful for what it provides if you need it.
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  #95  
Old 20.01.2010, 11:09
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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And in the interest of balance:
cadbury's/ kraft Fondue (a bucket of bad melted cheese mixed with bad wine)

Because you can't afford good cheese and decent wine that's hardly going to change by leaving the UK
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Old 20.01.2010, 11:29
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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The statement above about GP's is made up and you know it. Turned away unless "life threatening symptoms" is just not true and I think you know this.
No, it is not, sorry. I did not make anything up.
Take the example of breast cancer. GPs have a policy of prescribing breast screenings only after a woman is 50 (I think now they are anticipating to 47) unless you have clear signs of a tumour (when you have clear signs, it is likely that the tumour is also advanced).
In France and Italy - where you have national healthcare as in UK - you don't have age limit, you use different types of screenings according to age, you can make a genetic exam, and it is a must for women with family history to do a screening every 6 months.

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The articles on drugs not being allowed because of cost are routinely brought up by people who slate the NHS, which is a pity. For the money available to it there has to be a line drawn as to what is and isnt financially viable. I still think that point of entry universal healthcare for a country of 60 million is magificent. Sorry.
Tell the people which are diagnosed with liver cancer or their family's members..

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"I just hope that the people making these decisions are never in the position I am in now. How can other countries in the world fund this drug and we can't? "
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Old 20.01.2010, 11:34
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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No, it is not. It might have been..
You can call the French an excellent national health system, the Italian a good national system, but the UK NHS is mediocre. Sorry to say.
The UK NHS is lacking in many sides, prevention be one.
If you ask your GP for a check up, in many cases he turns you away saying "come back when you have life threatening symptoms."

And here:

Liver cancer drug 'too expensive'

NICE decision on liver cancer drug Nexavar condemned

It just makes me crying reading the families comments.. that cannot be considered a magnificent system. Sorry

LOL getting an appointment with a GP can be a real pita agreed, depends on where you live really, in the city its going to be hard, out in the sticks with a local gp its going to be simple.

as for the drugs, that old chestnut again, of course it would be a wonderful world if every new drug costing £10k per month was available to everyone regardless of its very low sucess rate, or the fact the patient is terminal, and its bound to be waaaay better then the much cheaper version with the better sucess rate. But this is the real world, if eveyone got the new very expensive, unproven drugs then a lot more people wouldn't get what they need, yes its sad, it would be great if the people who "needed" them got them and lived another few months, there is nothing at all stopping them buying the drugs themselves. And the same situation exsists all over the world, insurance companies don't give out blank cheques either.

NICE decide what drugs get given, and NICE is made up of a panel of DOCTORS, which drug do you think they will choose, the £10k with a 30% sucess rate, or the £1k with a 30% sucess rate.
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Old 20.01.2010, 11:36
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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It is a great system actually, sorry. The statement above about GP's is made up and you know it. Turned away unless "life threatening symptoms" is just not true and I think you know this.

The articles on drugs not being allowed because of cost are routinely brought up by people who slate the NHS, which is a pity. For the money available to it there has to be a line drawn as to what is and isnt financially viable. I still think that point of entry universal healthcare for a country of 60 million is magificent. Sorry.
I've had something similar happen to me. It had been 8 years since i had been to the doctor and alas I needed a sick note. I asked him at the time if I could get a check up. I was 20 at the time.

He told me that they only treat any specific problems one has and that it's unlikely that much will have changed since I came last time.

Of course nothing will change between being 12 and 20. He then proceeded to check my blood pressure height and weight.

He then didn't give me the sick note either because I wasn't unwell at the time and it was for an incident the week before. I told him this was the first appointment they had. He told me that I could have gotten an emergency appointment the same day. To whcih I replied that it wasn't an emergency and I wouldn't want to take that emergency appointment from someone who was actually in need.

I've not actually been to the doctor since. Here is to hoping I don't have to pay my franchise here either and I save the 11% NIC!
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Old 20.01.2010, 11:36
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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The NHS does not have an limitless money pot, and with any budget tough choices have to be made.
I once had a gf from NI, in the early 80's, who claimed it was perfectly reasonable that the NHS should be made to pay for women's tampons.

Methinks that what is missing is a clear understanding of what national health care should constitute and who is going to pay for it and how.
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Old 20.01.2010, 11:38
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Re: Ten reasons to leave UK for Switzerland

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No, it is not, sorry. I did not make anything up.
Take the example of breast cancer. GPs have a policy of prescribing breast screenings only after a woman is 50 (I think now they are anticipating to 47) unless you have clear signs of a tumour (when you have clear signs, it is likely that the tumour is also advanced).
In France and Italy - where you have national healthcare as in UK - you don't have age limit, you use different types of screenings according to age, you can make a genetic exam, and it is a must for women with family history to do a screening every 6 months.



Tell the people which are diagnosed with liver cancer or their family's members..
Many countries afford med's not available on the NHS because the treatments are funded by the patient either directly or indirectly. In the UK the state has an allocated amount of money to spread over the population.... it's not rocket science but reality. If you want additional choice take out supplemental insurance cover, simple.

And your really should avoid using scaremongering soundbites that are exceptions rather than the rule.
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