Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 25.09.2010, 22:29
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Telebilling - Internet Charge

I have just received a bill from a company called TeleBilling AG which is very cryptic for playying on the internet to win an iPhone.

I am very suspicous of it and was wondering if anyone else had encountered them, or could advise how to challenge it?

I did a brief search on the internet and found that they over charge for services but before I write to them I was wondering if anyone could offer me advice about any consumer support/advice agencies that might exist in Switzerland?

Thanks a lot
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 25.09.2010, 22:56
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,516
Groaned at 364 Times in 251 Posts
Thanked 12,723 Times in 4,340 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

I have managed to avoid them, but it seems they run a business in somewhat of a grey area - that of special chargeable phone numbers, often gambling or sex lines. Looks you dialled one. How much is the bill??
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 25.09.2010, 22:56
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Stäfa
Posts: 14
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 11 Times in 4 Posts
nomayer has earned some respectnomayer has earned some respect
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

Ah those guys....

Telebilling AG is a company that invoices internet services in the nameof third parties,i.e. you might have downloaded a game, application, etc and they are now invoicing it in the name of the provider.

Very often, these downloads appear to be free,but somewhere in the small print it states that there is a fee, charge, etc. Usually, and if the set up was clearly aimed at tricking you, you are not liable to pay, even if you did dowenload - however the legal interpretation can be tricky.

Icantake a look at the bill to let you know what exactly theyclaimto beinvoicing (might belegit after all - if you want, you're welcome to send me a scan of theinvoice as PM)

If you want to dispute, the following is the link to the swiss consumers protection agency - http://konsumentenschutz.ch/dienstleistungen/beratung/

They have an 0900 number that I have used in the past (careful - CHF 2 /minute) - they have staff that speaks english and they are quite sharp

Hope this helps, no matter what - don't feel you needto pay until you are satisfied that you understand the bill - Telebilling needs to beable to detail EXACTLY what the invoice is for.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank nomayer for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 26.09.2010, 09:56
fitzgera's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Berner Oberland
Posts: 86
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 53 Times in 24 Posts
fitzgera has made some interesting contributions
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

Another potentially sneaky way to trick iPhone users.

Essentially its where kids can download games for free. But then the child can purchase stuff while playing the game. You can end up with big charges on your credit card.

"BBC warns parents about in-app purchasing by kids"
http://www.9to5mac.com/27759/bbc-war...hasing-by-kids
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 26.09.2010, 11:17
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

Thanks for the feedback. I just entered a competition to win an iPhone at the edge of Facebook, won't go there again.

NoMayer, I have sent you an email, thanks a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 26.09.2010, 12:12
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

this is what the bill looks like:


O61 Internet

Identifikation : 078/999',99'99
Leistung : Gewinnspiel iPhone01DienstanbieterlD 004*. - Abo/Tarifcode: 503
Datum und Uhrzeit : 20.06.2010 13:11
IP-Adresse 12.12.123.123



Dienstanbieter 004 is: media entertainment ag, Postfach, 8048 Zürich


I've been charged 60CHF for this????

I've changed the ids and date / time

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 26.09.2010, 18:07
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

Hey there,

I just played the same game iphone, but I didn't knew it was not for free.

I have cancel the contract by sending an sms to telebill as they state in the website but I received a reply saying it will be cancel by 26.10 2010, in one month!! So I assume I will receive a bill in the following days for one month!

But they say you can cancel the contract without observance of a cancelation period.
Der Kunde kann den Abonnementsdienst jederzeit und ohne Einhaltung einer Kündigungsfrist beenden, indem er eine SMS mit dem Inhalt "STOP <Spielname>“ an die Nummer 076 504 45 45 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 076 504 45 45 end_of_the_skype_highlighting sendet. Der <Spielname> befindet sich auf der Spiel-Website bei den Informationen am unteren Rand. Beispiel: Steht auf der Spielseite "Spielname: WPIPHONE", muss der Inhalt der Abmelde-SMS lauten: "STOP WPIPHONE".



What can I do Nomayer?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 26.09.2010, 18:23
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

I would also like to know what to do, I sent STOP iPhone01 to stop it and it said 22.10.2010 it would be stopped, which is the end of my current bill period.

They really are praying on people's ignorance and lust for an iPhone. They must have made thousands.

Do any legal people around here have suggestions about what to do?

The thing is it's a relatively small amount, so most people will pay, because of the legal hassle costing so much.

Can a letter be written to them to stop payment?

Thanks for any feedback
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26.09.2010, 19:04
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Stäfa
Posts: 14
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 11 Times in 4 Posts
nomayer has earned some respectnomayer has earned some respect
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

Zurichowl, benitojmc,

I spent some more time on the web site of TelebillingAG and the FAQ in relation to Invoicing (Rechnung).

According to them, invoices are only sent if they have previously called the subscriber ofthe computer (identified through the IP number) and only if they have proof that the person has agreed to the original service provider's Terms uf Usage (Algemeine Gschäftsbedingungen = AGB).

If they called you indeed and verified your contact details, then you might be in adifficult position to prove that you did not intend to use the service. SImilarely, if you agreed to the original provider's terms of useage, then you most likely would also be in a difficult position to get out of it.

What I would do would be the following:

Send Telebilling a letter objecting to the invoice (i prepared a short german form letter for you - see below) - In that letter you are asking for proof that you where informed of and agreed to pay the charges.

Then wait and see what they are coming up with- if they can actually send you a formal record of your agreement, then my pragmatic advice (for 60 bucks) would be to pay it - it would be a lot of effort to dispute it. On the other hand they might just waive it given the resistance.

You could probably still go a few extra rounds in having verified if the original terms and conditions where misleading or deceptive,but if benitojmc says he realized that is was paying service then you would probably be in a tough spot.

Wishyou much sucess, PM me if you need more help

__________________________________________________ ____-
Letter:

Sehr geehrte Herren,

Am (insert date of invoice) haben Ich von Ihnen eine Rechnung (Rechnungsnummer [insert invoice number] ) im Betrag von [Insert amount] erhalten.

Die Informationen betreffend der Leistung erlauben keine Identifikation einerr von mir angeblich in Anspruch genommenen Dienstleistung und ich habe keine Dienstleistung in diesem Betrag wissentlich konsumiert.

Um die Rechtmässigkeit Ihrer Rechnung verifizieren zu können, bitte ich Sie mir eine Kopie Ihrer Unterlagen zukommen zu lassen die meine Angebliche Konsumation nachweisen.

Sollten Sie mir die Rechnung versehentlich zugestellt haben, bitte ich Sie, mir diesbezüglich Mitteilung zu machen und zu bestätigen das die Rechnung annuliert ist.

Mit Freundlichen Grüssen,

[insert your name]



Translation:

Derr Sirs

On xxx I received an invoice from you in the amount of XYZ.

The invoice does not allow me to identify the service which you claim that I have used and I am not aware of having knowingly used such a service.

In order to verify the validity of the invoice I request that you send me a copy of those dociuments in your records which substantiate the amount claimed.

In the event that you send me the invoice erroneously, kindly sendme a confirmation to that extend confirming that the ivoice is cancelled.

Your truly,

XXX
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank nomayer for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 26.09.2010, 19:22
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

Hello nomayer,

Thank you for the help. I really appreciate it. I've tried to thank you on your post, but it doesn't seem to have taken. I will send the letter.

They definitely did not contact me and confirm the details, they have just sent the invoice. I should mention that in the letter no?

thanks again, I hope this thread helps others.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 26.09.2010, 19:38
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

Hi All,



This is what it is written in the website before you start playing this game. This is of course at the bottom of the website in small letter



Deine Chance den oben erwähnten Preis zu gewinnen ! Zusätzlich nimmst Du an der monatlichen Verlosung von 2 Kinokarten teil. Dies ist ein monatlicher Abonnements-Dienst zu CHF 59.90. Um den Dienst zu stoppen, sende STOP IPHONE01 an 0765044545 oder ruf die Hotline unter 0848 835 386 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 0848 835 386 end_of_the_skype_highlighting an. Du musst älter als 18 Jahre sein. Gratis Teilnahme möglich mit Postkarte und Lösungen an: Media Entertainment AG, Betrifft: IPHONE01, Postfach, 8048 Zürich. Durch Mitmachen bei diesem Dienst anerkennst Du die Allgemeinen Geschäftsbedingungen (AGB) und bestätigst diese gelesen und verstanden zu haben. Sämtliche Markennamen, (eingetragene) Warenzeichen, Bilder und Produktbeschreibungen sind Eigentum Ihrer rechtmässigen Eigentümer und sind weder Sponsor noch Partner dieser Promotion. Teilnahmeschluss: 31.12.2010.



I understand here that although we played, we can cancel the contract by sending the sms. On the other hand I agree with you Nomayer. They have to call to verify as they say in the AGB (see link) of the game point 2 second paragraph.



http://www.me-ag.ch/de/gs-agb-meag.html


Will see If they send me also the invoice.



Thanks for the tipps!!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 27.09.2010, 21:51
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: zurich
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
claudiaw has no particular reputation at present
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

hi! I got the same bill and do not intend to pay it. I will write this company and if they won't apologize, I will contact the Stiftung für Konsumentenschutz as well as Kassensturz, K-Tipp and Saldo who defend the rights of consumers. it's disgusting what these people do!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 30.09.2010, 10:26
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
matrix has no particular reputation at present
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

Hi there

It happened the same to me. Yesterday I got an invoice of Tellebilling AG. Right after I wrote an email to K-Tipp to ask them what happens if I do not pay the bill. Here the answer (in german):

Ja, Sie sind im Recht. Ein Vertrag kommt nur gültig zustande, wenn auf der Internetseite die Vertragsbedingungen klar ersichtlich sind. Dies war vorliegend nicht der Fall. Sie müssen deshalb nicht bezahlen. Teilen Sie der Firma in einem Schreiben (Email genügt) mit, dass Sie die Rechnung nicht begleichen werden, da der Vertrag wegen absichtlicher Täuschung ungültig ist.

Mit freundlichen Grüssen
Rechtsberatung K-Tipp & saldo


So, for the english people here: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY THE BILL BECAUSE THE TERMS OF CONTRACT WERE NOT EASY TO SEE.
The only thing you have to do is to write them an e-mail, that you won't pay the bill because the contract ist not legal due to intentional deception (absichtliche Täuschung).
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03.10.2010, 22:32
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

Thank you for the feedback. I have such an email sent. But be careful with sending them emails. The email on their website deletes emails as soon as they arrive (I put check for receipt on it and got a "deleted without reading" back).

Either send it to info@img-ag.com or post it on their feedback website.

I have also reported the ad to facebook to let them investigate and will send this information on to them.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 14.10.2010, 17:03
Cybersuz's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dottikon Aargau
Posts: 237
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 130 Times in 56 Posts
Cybersuz has earned the respect of manyCybersuz has earned the respect of manyCybersuz has earned the respect of many
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

Thank you all soooo much for the info, we got our invoice yesterday. We did not verify any detail either, you should see the way they spelled my husband's name and our surname!

No way they verified anything and got that spelling!

Will send the letter via email and registered post.

Thanks again!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 15.10.2010, 15:55
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

I was in a lawyer in ZH. He told me I do not have to pay because It is "Absichtliche Täuschung" and I should ignore other briefs and in case they "betreiben" I must "Rechstvorschlag erheben" (Sorry I do not know this terms in English). They have then to demonstrate why the are right.

This has been already published in the News.

http://www.ktipp.ch/onlineartikel/10...b_auf_Facebook

They also say in the AGB that they have to call you to check the data, what in my case and I assume in all cases they didn't do. In the AGB they also say that you can cancel the contract at any time without cancellation period. So If you sent the sms of cancellation they can only send you a bill for the time between you played and you cancel. So looks very bad for Telebilling.

You can also check this publication of the swiss government
http://www.seco.admin.ch/dokumentati...x.html?lang=de

I hope this also helps.

P.S.: be careful the AGB of the game are not the same as of the ones you find in the company website. I copied them after I played. If someone need them just tell me.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 18.10.2010, 15:43
Cybersuz's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dottikon Aargau
Posts: 237
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 130 Times in 56 Posts
Cybersuz has earned the respect of manyCybersuz has earned the respect of manyCybersuz has earned the respect of many
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

We sent them the letter I found on this threadd, stating that we did not agree to the service etc....

We got this reply today....


Sehr geehrter Herr
...
Ihr Mail vom 15. Oktober 2010 haben wir erhalten.
Wir bestehen auf der Bezahlung der Rechnung und bitten Sie, uns den Betrag von CHF 59.90 termingerecht zu überweisen, damit Sie nicht gemahnt werden und Ihnen keine weiteren Kosten entstehen.
Des Weiteren haben wir zu unserem Mail vom 14. Oktober 2010 nichts mehr hinzuzufügen.
Vielen Dank für die Kenntnisnahme.

Freundliche Grüsse
[/FONT][/I]

Do we just ignore the account? We very definitely did not even fill anything in on their "competition" or went further than the fist page of the website, we were never called, we did not receive the sms they claimed we got.

Now what?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 19.10.2010, 12:15
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

Cybersuz If you never sent an SMS to participate in this competition they cannot do anything against you. They might frighten you with "Mahnungen". Do not care about it. Just ignore. After "Mahnungen" the might "betreiben" you have to ""Rechstvorschlag erheben" after ten 10 of receipt this "Betreibung". Then Telebilling have to prove why you have to pay them. And I do not think they can do it in your case.

I will anyway recommend you to send them a letter asking at which number did they send the sms to participate in the game. It may happens that someone has used your Internet conexion to play. Anyway this does not allow them to send you the bill as they have to call to confirm the data of the person.

There are some places to ask for legal advice for free. I was in ZAV and they explained me everything. You can go also.


http://www.zav.ch/service/rechtsauskunft.html

http://www.gerichte-zh.ch/zrp/zuerich.nsf/wViewContent/4C1D24037E3AA2B2C1256C89006551C6/$file/Rechtsauskunft.htm

I hope this helps you.

If you need something else just ask!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 19.10.2010, 12:31
Cybersuz's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dottikon Aargau
Posts: 237
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 130 Times in 56 Posts
Cybersuz has earned the respect of manyCybersuz has earned the respect of manyCybersuz has earned the respect of many
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

Quote:
View Post
Cybersuz If you never sent an SMS to participate in this competition they cannot do anything against you. They might frighten you with "Mahnungen". Do not care about it. Just ignore. After "Mahnungen" the might "betreiben" you have to ""Rechstvorschlag erheben" after ten 10 of receipt this "Betreibung". Then Telebilling have to prove why you have to pay them. And I do not think they can do it in your case.

I will anyway recommend you to send them a letter asking at which number did they send the sms to participate in the game. It may happens that someone has used your Internet conexion to play. Anyway this does not allow them to send you the bill as they have to call to confirm the data of the person.

There are some places to ask for legal advice for free. I was in ZAV and they explained me everything. You can go also.


http://www.zav.ch/service/rechtsauskunft.html

http://www.gerichte-zh.ch/zrp/zuerich.nsf/wViewContent/4C1D24037E3AA2B2C1256C89006551C6/$file/Rechtsauskunft.htm

I hope this helps you.

If you need something else just ask!
Thanks for the info. We have decided to do a letter with all the information from this thread and send it to them via registered mail and then ignore them from there on.

Must say I was pretty shocked that this happened in CH as well, but then I suppose there are fraudsters everywhere.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 19.10.2010, 14:58
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Telebilling - Internet Charge

Yes, It's a shame that these things happen. I had a few years ago a similar problem in Germany. They wanted 600 EUR but they never got them hehe. They frighten you but nothing else.

By the way I sent Tellebilling my brief one week ago on Monday last week but for the moment I didn't receive anything from them. Will see If they come to me. I will keep you informed.

Good Luck!
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Internet question [internet without phone or TV] gurutalon TV/internet/telephone 23 07.12.2010 15:55
How much does a private tutor charge? AnnieC Language corner 22 02.02.2010 22:07
How much does a babysitter charge? Libellula Employment 2 08.10.2009 14:50
postal charge? peebix Other/general 13 12.12.2008 15:13
Community Charge Dido Finance/banking/taxation 2 31.03.2007 12:03


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0