Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 08.11.2010, 10:36
The_Mikey's Avatar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: California
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
The_Mikey has no particular reputation at present
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

thank you for the replies everyone, they've been quite informative. Personally, I find it more important that my stances be supported by legislature than by public opinions, which they seem to be. And I quite concur with the "keep it to yourself" attitude insinuated by some of you: forcing your ideas down another's throat is highly aggravating (and disrespectful) no wonder what they are.

And yes, I realize that immigrating will be a very tough process. I should have added "if I can get in" to my original post
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08.11.2010, 10:52
phdoofus's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: City by the Bay
Posts: 2,357
Groaned at 96 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 3,205 Times in 1,227 Posts
phdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
I haven't looked into Finland at all, no. The only things I know about it are that they're heavy drinkers and have far too many power metal bands .
your research skills need work
esp if you think this is a place where no one will care what you do
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08.11.2010, 11:07
The_Mikey's Avatar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: California
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
The_Mikey has no particular reputation at present
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
your research skills need work
esp if you think this is a place where no one will care what you do

are you referring to Switzerland or Finland? Anyway, It's 1AM here, I'm off to bed. Guten Morgen everyone!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08.11.2010, 11:10
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Switzerland is sooo fiscally conservative that they don't even spend a dime to try to appear socially conservative. Social Liberalism is less expensive than trying to enforce morality.

Last edited by Phos; 08.11.2010 at 11:58.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 08.11.2010, 11:48
SamWeiseVielleicht's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bern
Posts: 725
Groaned at 11 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 893 Times in 397 Posts
SamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond reputeSamWeiseVielleicht has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Come to think of it.. has Switzerland ever had a gay pride or some such event in the past?

Liberalism and Switzerland in the same sentence doesn´t seem quite right
Yup. The first national gay protest was in Bern in 1979. Since 1994 there is a Gay Pride or CSD in Zürich. Plus since 1997 there is one in the french speaking part of Switzerland.

Quote:
View Post
Too long if you ask me.. (two years)
Anyway, maybe I´ve missed it cos it´s not actually called a Gay Pride (and maybe beacuse I live in a village that is far off from civilization and any events what-so-ever
Why on earth do you go live in Ennetbareggistan (Aargau) if these things are important to you? That's like moving to Abilene TX in the US if you dig the lifestyle of San Francisco...

Last edited by SamWeiseVielleicht; 08.11.2010 at 12:42.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08.11.2010, 12:08
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Hello everybody! New user here. To preface, I currently live in California, USA, and have been heavily entertaining the idea of immigrating to Switzerland once I graduate with my university degree (in economics, in case you're interested). So far, from the research I've done on the country, I like what I see. The culture and economic policies seem on par with with an environment that I'd like to inhabit.

one thing I haven't been able to find any information on is the degree of social freedom/liberalism in Switzerland. For example, what are the cultural attitudes toward homosexuality? Narcotics use? Prostitution? Censorship/obscenity? By American standards, I'm quite liberal, espousing the beliefs that homosexual marriage, narcotics, and public nudity should all be completely legal, while censorship should be banned. Are these beliefs accepted here? Would I feel at home in this society? I find that America on the whole is far too conservative for my liking, and I would like to find a nation that shares my beliefs.

Thank you for your time!

Yeah, there is an American myth that the Swiss are a free-loving people who walk around naked. It's NOT true.

There was a philosopher by the name of Rosseau who was like the prototype for hippies, and there was a new age artist commune in Ticino where they walked around naked, but other than that..... Switzerland is a LOT like the heart of the the mid-West US. Think Kansas, dude. Seriously. Switzerland is the Kansas of Western Europe.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 08.11.2010, 12:10
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,417
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 10,952 Times in 3,253 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
thank you for the replies everyone, they've been quite informative. Personally, I find it more important that my stances be supported by legislature than by public opinions, which they seem to be. And I quite concur with the "keep it to yourself" attitude insinuated by some of you: forcing your ideas down another's throat is highly aggravating (and disrespectful) no wonder what they are.
Whoa there! You are veering dangerously close to the Switzerland as Libertarian Paradise myth.

Move here and your neighbors will do nothing but force their ideas down your throat. Especially if there is any danger that you, your child, or your dog might catch a draught. There is a saying to the effect that half the things you can do in Switzerland are proscribed - and the other half are mandatory. That is a slight exaggeration, but it is certainly true that "minding your own business" is not a primary social tenet here.

The Swiss believe in decentralized government, and lots of it: communal liberty rather than individual. Think Puritans minus the blue laws. Seriously.

Depending where you live, you may:
- not be allowed to do laundry at night or on Sunday
- only be allowed to do laundry on three days of the month
- have to recycle - but not in the evening or on Sunday
- be required to plant geraniums (and no other sort of flower) in your windowboxes

There are good reasons for all of this, or reasons the Swiss find good ones anyway. Most of it has to do with maintaining order and harmony in the community: "Ordnung muss sein" as they say! But that doesn't make it any less stifling to your average freewheeling Californian. Someone from an old New England community might stand a better chance.
__________________
Need help? Contact a mod.

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank MathNut for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 08.11.2010, 12:11
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: na
Posts: 11,248
Groaned at 37 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 26,732 Times in 8,253 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Switzerland is the Kansas of Western Europe.
Brilliant analysis.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08.11.2010, 13:02
Mud's Avatar
Mud Mud is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Romandie
Posts: 2,551
Groaned at 26 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 5,004 Times in 1,827 Posts
Mud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Switzerland is the Kansas of Western Europe.
Thar's golddust in them thar wind, boys!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Mud for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 08.11.2010, 13:07
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,553
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Whoa there! You are veering dangerously close to the Switzerland as Libertarian Paradise myth.

Move here and your neighbors will do nothing but force their ideas down your throat. Especially if there is any danger that you, your child, or your dog might catch a draught. There is a saying to the effect that half the things you can do in Switzerland are proscribed - and the other half are mandatory. That is a slight exaggeration, but it is certainly true that "minding your own business" is not a primary social tenet here.

The Swiss believe in decentralized government, and lots of it: communal liberty rather than individual. Think Puritans minus the blue laws. Seriously.

Depending where you live, you may:
- not be allowed to do laundry at night or on Sunday
- only be allowed to do laundry on three days of the month
- have to recycle - but not in the evening or on Sunday
- be required to plant geraniums (and no other sort of flower) in your windowboxes
This is all, as you mention,very much dependent on where you live though.

In Zürich you're highly likely to be able to mind your own business. And I think that laundry restrictions here are more to do with sharing facilities rather than anything else.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 08.11.2010, 13:22
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,553
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Switzerland is the Kansas of Western Europe.
And not just politically. There are many similarities (shared heritage) between Midwestern food and Swiss-German food.

I was quite surprised to hear about Grünauer opening in Kansas City as I initially thought it might be trying to meet a demand that was already being met.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08.11.2010, 13:53
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,417
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 10,952 Times in 3,253 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
This is all, as you mention,very much dependent on where you live though.

In Zürich you're highly likely to be able to mind your own business. And I think that laundry restrictions here are more to do with sharing facilities rather than anything else.
And yet the geraniums-in-the-windowboxes story was from Zurich. Just sayin'.

In fact there are overlapping noise ordinances (just to pick one category) at all levels of government. For example:
No 'unreasonable disturbances' in general: federal law ("Nachbarrecht")
No Sunday recycling: cantonal law
No nighttime DIY: gemeinde/city ordinance
No nighttime baths, showers are OK though: house rules

As I understand it the police won't come out to enforce house rules, but the rest are - potentially - fair game. Whether you actually have any trouble or not depends on how quiet/rule-abiding you are, and how well you get on with your neighbors.

The OP indicates that he'd be happy so long as his desired activities are legal, and could care less whether they are socially accepted. This attitude will not get you far in Switzerland. Sooner or later, you will want to build bookshelves on a Sunday, or throw a loud party that lasts till 10:15, and at that point your neighbors' goodwill matters.

Of course moving further out in the country means fewer neighbors - but it also means the neighbors you do have are likely to be (1) more socially conservative and (2) less preoccupied with their own affairs, thus more time for curtain-twitching.

You could get lucky (as we have done with the place we live now) but you could also not.

And that's my point: Switzerland is not William Tell's Crystal Rainbow FKK Utopia or William Tell's Old-Time Huntin' Fishin' Sturmgewehr-Totin' Home on the Range.

What is it with (us) Americans anyway?
__________________
Need help? Contact a mod.

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MathNut for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 08.11.2010, 21:00
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Come to think of it.. has Switzerland ever had a gay pride or some such event in the past?

Liberalism and Switzerland in the same sentence doesn´t seem quite right
Which other city than Zürich has a Lesbian City President ? The lady was elected (directly by the people) about a year ago .... and everybody knew her leaning !




Mrs Corine Mauch

Last edited by Wollishofener; 08.11.2010 at 21:11.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08.11.2010, 21:22
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Come to think of it.. has Switzerland ever had a gay pride or some such event in the past?
Oh yes. After the first rounds in the main cities Zürich, Bern and Geneva, the gay associations decided to play it more political: it was the time around the discussions for or against gay partnership. They went to smaller cities in cantons where the opposition was likely to be the greatest, in order to do the preventive work there in the three years before the vote itself (an initiative against the law proposal from the federal council was lounged). I only remember Delémont and Sion - the latter being a real hot one. The canton made a huge fuzz up to the day before. The gay pride was allowed afterall and one can only guess that Couchepin at that time was ordered to make his fellow Waliser let the gay pride go on. The antigay demonstration was small and the waliser cantonal police was not exactly friendly. But professional, that was all one asked them to be.
Since the discriminating laws all desappeared and the partnership got through, the gay pride has not such a political power anymore - logically. The Europride was in Zürich in 2009. In the last years, some kind of gay festivals were organized. I remember Biel, Lausanne, Zürich and Geneva. I do not know if there have been others. I thought, only one event has the label Gay Pride each year, but I see now, that the Zürich event is called officially Zurich Pride festival.
__________________
Es wird nichts ausgelassen, um mich hier herauszuekeln. Ein Lehrbuch. False accusations and attacks continue. There is no stopping righteous people when they are wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08.11.2010, 21:29
dakman's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NYC (heart is split between Switzerland and the Big Apple)
Posts: 1,872
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 901 Times in 543 Posts
dakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
thank you for the replies everyone, they've been quite informative. Personally, I find it more important that my stances be supported by legislature than by public opinions, which they seem to be. And I quite concur with the "keep it to yourself" attitude insinuated by some of you: forcing your ideas down another's throat is highly aggravating (and disrespectful) no wonder what they are.

And yes, I realize that immigrating will be a very tough process. I should have added "if I can get in" to my original post

There is no utopia on earth, there might me a mytopia if you are lucky or willing.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08.11.2010, 21:31
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
there might me a mytopia
You mean mythopia?
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08.11.2010, 21:38
dakman's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NYC (heart is split between Switzerland and the Big Apple)
Posts: 1,872
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 901 Times in 543 Posts
dakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
You mean mythopia?

maybe myopia?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08.11.2010, 23:49
FMX's Avatar
FMX FMX is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BE
Posts: 700
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 461 Times in 260 Posts
FMX is considered knowledgeableFMX is considered knowledgeableFMX is considered knowledgeable
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

I'm Swiss (travels & studies in California) and if I were you I'd heavily entertain the idea of FRIST COMMING ON VACATION to Switzerland ...before planing with emigration.

To me California is by far more liberal, open-minded, laid back and tolerant than Switzerland. Travel..travel...voyage...voyage..

Just my 2 cents
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09.11.2010, 00:03
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
I'm Swiss (travels & studies in California) and if I were you I'd heavily entertain the idea of FRIST COMMING ON VACATION to Switzerland ...before planing with emigration.

To me California is by far more liberal, open-minded, laid back and tolerant than Switzerland. Travel..travel...voyage...voyage..

Just my 2 cents
As I only, decades ago, visited San Francisco and Los Angeles, I find it a bit difficult to judge California, but I have seen the vast differences between, for example New Orleans, Austin and Dallas on one side and Tyler and Marshall on the other. Take Zurich and Geneva and compare them with Einsiedeln, Sursee, Gettnau and Sumiswald. Or compare the City of Luzern with Sachseln or Flüelen. Compare life in the City of Bern with life in Spiez or Grindelwald.

It is clear that somebody coming from SFO or LA should not settle in the Solothurner Prairies or the Luzerner Outback but in somewhat urban areas
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09.11.2010, 00:18
FMX's Avatar
FMX FMX is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BE
Posts: 700
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 461 Times in 260 Posts
FMX is considered knowledgeableFMX is considered knowledgeableFMX is considered knowledgeable
Re: Social Liberalism in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
It is clear that somebody coming from SFO or LA should not settle in the Solothurner Prairies or the Luzerner Outback but in somewhat urban areas
...On the L.A. scale, Zürich is a village
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
libertarian paradise




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
US social security to Switzerland vishi Finance/banking/taxation 4 24.05.2013 15:21
Just moved to switzerland rappersville? .. And need a social life!! colleenspeers Travel/day trips/free time 10 17.08.2010 18:55
Liberalism and freedom from government in Switzerland? oisp Daily life 26 02.08.2008 14:05
Help on Tax and social secuirty between France and Switzerland bobdobbs Business & entrepreneur 8 27.11.2007 13:46
[social] Websites [does Switzerland have any?] J-Swiss General off-topic 4 24.10.2007 20:13


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0