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Old 22.06.2016, 19:06
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Second Bachelor in Switzerland

Hi all !!

I wanted to do a Master in Management and Economics but at the end the UZH accepted me for a Bachelor in the same field. After gathering all the requirements, the Swiss embassy in my country told me that it is highly possible to receive a rejection because I already hold a Bachelor degree. (that's why I didn't apply-yet)

I wrote the Migrationsamt in Zürich and they say they cannot give me more information about it.

And in internet I found some information about study visa rejection's for a second Bachelor in Germany (ZweitStudium)

Does anyone knows something about that ?

PS. I am from Peru a non EU citizen.
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  #2  
Old 22.06.2016, 19:41
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

I don't know anything about visa rejection because of a second Bachelor's.. but it seems unlikely. Maybe the international student center can help?
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Old 22.06.2016, 19:53
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

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Hi all !!

I wanted to do a Master in Management and Economics but at the end the UZH accepted me for a Bachelor in the same field. After gathering all the requirements, the Swiss embassy in my country told me that it is highly possible to receive a rejection because I already hold a Bachelor degree. (that's why I didn't apply-yet)

I wrote the Migrationsamt in Zürich and they say they cannot give me more information about it.

And in internet I found some information about study visa rejection's for a second Bachelor in Germany (ZweitStudium)

Does anyone knows something about that ?

PS. I am from Peru a non EU citizen.
Never heard of anything like that, if it's true then CH must be an unique case in Europe. (along with their German cousins if your info is right)
Do apply for visa and see how it goes. There isn't any other option left anyway, is it?
Oh, and fingers crossed.
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Old 22.06.2016, 21:42
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

the university decided your bachelor is not enough or too old to do their master, and wants you to start from zero.
for the visa i guess this is a rare situation that's why you don't find much information, but do they even ask for your qualifications? isn't the admission at the university of zürich and proof of self-funding enough? seems weird.
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Old 22.06.2016, 21:52
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

OP- what reason(s) did the University give for not admitting you to the post grad course? Where is your Bachelor from?
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Old 22.06.2016, 22:31
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

Hi,

I think you should apply for the visa, and as far as i know, you might write a motivation letter for the embassy that why you want to study a second BA. You can pinpoint to the fact that you applied to MA, but the university decided that your qualifications are not in par with Swiss Master's degree, and they gave you admission for BA. In my case, MY BA + MY MA= Swiss BA (which is 180 ECTS), so i applied for a second master's degree. Hope it helps!
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Old 23.06.2016, 19:18
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I don't know anything about visa rejection because of a second Bachelor's.. but it seems unlikely. Maybe the international student center can help?
Hi Lorena,

I wrote the Study Center and they told me that the have not heard that any student could be rejected (I mean Visa rejected) oonly for doing a second Bachelor.

What I been looking is that maybe the problem is in how the embassy from Switzerland in my country is giving the information.

Because when I went to applying the person told me that it would be very likely to be rejected just because I wanted to do a second Bachelor. And then started my fear and then I started looking everywhere if there could be such cases, and only 2 or 3 from Germany and Canada (I think)

Thanks very much for you reply !!!!!

Hi greenmount !!

I am now applying for the Master again, this time with a GMAT exam with more score. To study a Master at UZH that exam is not obligatory (states in their web page).

But you know, you are 100% right !! I have noting more to lose. In fact, I think the problem is my embassy and maybe not in the Migrationsamt from Zürich !!

What I was kind of concerned, was that in the embassy, they told me that if I got my visa rejected, that I would not be able to enter to Switzerland anymore, not even as a tourist. Which at first glance I was terrified, because that is a huge thing is like being banned because of being a danger or something like that. But trying to get into that answer maybe they were just exagerating, because when I was in Switzerland I travel by train from Switzerland to Germany and in the train they did not asked me for my passport, only my Tickets und some ID...

Thanks for your advice !! And for your fingers croseed !!!!

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Never heard of anything like that, if it's true then CH must be an unique case in Europe. (along with their German cousins if your info is right)
Do apply for visa and see how it goes. There isn't any other option left anyway, is it?
Oh, and fingers crossed.
Hi Meerkat33 !!

When I took all my documents to the embassy, they told me that it was very possible for me to have my visa rejected.

But I though the same, when I presented all my documents to the university, they saw I was 23 (in my embassy they told me I was also too old to do a Bachelor) and that I had a Bachelor already and moreover that I was from a NON-EU country. So I was really disappointed when they told me that in the embassy, because it was like how would the university admit me if they already know that I had already a Bachelor ? That would be weird, but when I was at my embassy I was just kind of scare because they also told me that if I got my visa rejected I would not be able to enter to Switzerland anymore, not even as a tourist. I was really scared, because like I already mentioned, only because I got a rejection they would treat me like a thread in their country to the point of prohibiting me the entrance ?

Seems really weird to me, too but I think I will take the option to just send my documents and hope for the best

Thanks very much for your answer !!!

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the university decided your bachelor is not enough or too old to do their master, and wants you to start from zero.
for the visa i guess this is a rare situation that's why you don't find much information, but do they even ask for your qualifications? isn't the admission at the university of zürich and proof of self-funding enough? seems weird.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 23.06.2016 at 19:41. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 23.06.2016, 19:53
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

The Uni should give you a letter in support of your visa application (Confirmation of Admission). Clear this with the admissions office. They are pretty helpful.

http://www.uzh.ch/en/studies/adresses.html#2

http://www.uzh.ch/en/studies/applica...delines.html#7
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Old 23.06.2016, 19:58
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Hi Aleydis,

I already have my Confirmation Document and all of the required documents, but my concern started when I got to the embassy where they told me that it is highly possible of not being accepted for the study visa...

Thanks for your post !!!

Quote:
OP- what reason(s) did the University give for not admitting you to the post grad course? Where is your Bachelor from?
Hi RufusB,

The university wrote this :
"You will not be able to enter the Master's degree program directly as your knowledge of the subjects matter does not meet the requierements for the Master's degree program at the Facutlty of Business, Economics and Informatics. You may, however, begin fresh in the Bachelor of Arts degree program at our Faculty"

And my BA is from Perú, but if they think I need a little more preparation I am able to !! That's why I wanted to apply to my study visa with their ofert to do a Bachelor. My concerned started when in my embassy, they told me that it is highly possible to have my study visa rejected

Thanks for your reply

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Hi,

I think you should apply for the visa, and as far as i know, you might write a motivation letter for the embassy that why you want to study a second BA. You can pinpoint to the fact that you applied to MA, but the university decided that your qualifications are not in par with Swiss Master's degree, and they gave you admission for BA. In my case, MY BA + MY MA= Swiss BA (which is 180 ECTS), so i applied for a second master's degree. Hope it helps!
Hi Ariaz,

You are right !!! And I am thankfull for all the support in this Post, I also wrote my motivation letter stating that, and I will attach my denial to the Bachelor where it states that they invite to do a Bachelor.

They also told me that I could be like old to start a Bachelor, I am 23. Do you know something about it ?

By the way I will apply for my BA the next week !!! I am really happy !!

Thanks very much !!!

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I don't know anything about visa rejection because of a second Bachelor's.. but it seems unlikely. Maybe the international student center can help?
Hi Lorena,

I wrote the Study Center and they told me that the have not heard that any student could be rejected (I mean Visa rejected) oonly for doing a second Bachelor.

What I been looking is that maybe the problem is in how the embassy from Switzerland in my country is giving the information.

Because when I went to applying the person told me that it would be very likely to be rejected just because I wanted to do a second Bachelor. And then started my fear and then I started looking everywhere if there could be such cases, and only 2 or 3 from Germany and Canada (I think)

Thanks very much for you reply !!!!!

Quote:
View Post
Never heard of anything like that, if it's true then CH must be an unique case in Europe. (along with their German cousins if your info is right)
Do apply for visa and see how it goes. There isn't any other option left anyway, is it?
Oh, and fingers crossed.
Hi greenmount !!

I am now applying for the Master again, this time with a GMAT exam with more score. To study a Master at UZH that exam is not obligatory (states in their web page).

But you know, you are 100% right !! I have noting more to lose. In fact, I think the problem is my embassy and maybe not in the Migrationsamt from Zürich !!

What I was kind of concerned, was that in the embassy, they told me that if I got my visa rejected, that I would not be able to enter to Switzerland anymore, not even as a tourist. Which at first glance I was terrified, because that is a huge thing is like being banned because of being a danger or something like that. But trying to get into that answer maybe they were just exagerating, because when I was in Switzerland I travel by train from Switzerland to Germany and in the train they did not asked me for my passport, only my Tickets und some ID...

Thanks for your advice !! And for your fingers crossed !!!

Quote:
View Post
the university decided your bachelor is not enough or too old to do their master, and wants you to start from zero.
for the visa i guess this is a rare situation that's why you don't find much information, but do they even ask for your qualifications? isn't the admission at the university of zürich and proof of self-funding enough? seems weird.
Hi Meerkat33 !!

When I took all my documents to the embassy, they told me that it was very possible for me to have my visa rejected.

But I though the same, when I presented all my documents to the university, they saw I was 23 (in my embassy they told me I was also too old to do a Bachelor) and that I had a Bachelor already and moreover that I was from a NON-EU country. So I was really disappointed when they told me that in the embassy, because it was like how would the university admit me if they already know that I had already a Bachelor ? That would be weird, but when I was at my embassy I was just kind of scare because they also told me that if I got my visa rejected I would not be able to enter to Switzerland anymore, not even as a tourist. I was really scared, because like I already mentioned, only because I got a rejection they would treat me like a thread in their country to the point of prohibiting me the entrance ?

Seems really weird to me, too but I think I will take the option to just send my documents and hope for the best

Thanks very much for your answer !!!

Last edited by 3Wishes; 23.06.2016 at 20:16. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 02.07.2016, 21:27
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

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The university wrote this :
"You will not be able to enter the Master's degree program directly as your knowledge of the subjects matter does not meet the requierements for the Master's degree program at the Facutlty of Business, Economics and Informatics. You may, however, begin fresh in the Bachelor of Arts degree program at our Faculty"
Hi

Unfortunately it sounds like UZH does not recognise your Bachelor degree being the equivalent of other Bachelor degrees offered in Switzerland or Europe, etc. I have a friend from Mexico who has a Bachelor's from there and Swiss universities also failed to recognise it as a valid degree. She ended up doing a second Bachelor degree as well (in the same field).

I think it would be a waste of your time fighting them on their decision as they have probably have a list of countries from which they deem degrees to meet their standards, and at the end of the day, choosing whom they admit for which programs is at their discretion. Your time might be better spent on seeing how many credits you can get for your Bachelor degree towards the UZH Bachelor and then decide whether it's worth it to you to complete it to get into the Master programme.
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Old 02.07.2016, 22:17
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

There must however be an accreditation mechanism together with a scientific prerequisite(s) chart. The former is not usually decided by a university whereas the latter, as a matter of commonsense, is formulated by a university. On what ground(s) someone is rejected is important. Why? Simply because there are ways to bypass some regulations (eg course credit system, number of prerequisites, scientific preparation phase).
Just as a side note, for those who don't know:
-check the accreditation of a university before enrollment,
-before applying to a master's/Ph.D. degree, check whether there's a scientific preparation phase, if you fail to satisfy some course requirements,
-know that there's a difference between a graduate department and department of X
- mind that a professor who you want to study with, sometimes, can bypass everything and hence turn all mentioned above into bs

PS I have no idea about Switzerland's accreditation mechanism.
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Old 05.07.2016, 23:53
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

Hi Strolls,

Yes you are right ... I have already passed through the phase of acccepting it hahaha

But my fear was that I may be won't get the study visa as I already did a Bachelor in my homecountry (I studied Administration and International Business in Peru and I will study Economics at UZH) because when I went to the embassy they told me it was high likely not to get a visa if I have already done one in my homecountry

I will send you a PM maybe I can ask you more things about your friend as she is from mexico she is kind in my same situation non-Eu citizen !!

Because if she had all the requirements as I do , then maybe I have also chances to get the study visa !!

Thanks very much !!
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Old 05.07.2016, 23:58
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

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There must however be an accreditation mechanism together with a scientific prerequisite(s) chart. The former is not usually decided by a university whereas the latter, as a matter of commonsense, is formulated by a university. On what ground(s) someone is rejected is important. Why? Simply because there are ways to bypass some regulations (eg course credit system, number of prerequisites, scientific preparation phase).
Just as a side note, for those who don't know:
-check the accreditation of a university before enrollment,
-before applying to a master's/Ph.D. degree, check whether there's a scientific preparation phase, if you fail to satisfy some course requirements,
-know that there's a difference between a graduate department and department of X
- mind that a professor who you want to study with, sometimes, can bypass everything and hence turn all mentioned above into bs

PS I have no idea about Switzerland's accreditation mechanism.
Hi Serk,

Yes you are right !! They told me in the letter of rejection of the master program that I may accredit some courses in the Bachelor Program!!

But my fear was more about if non Eu citizens could get a study visa for a Second Bachelor Program (I already done a Bachelor in my homecountry). I mean, if the University of zürich, that is a very recognize university tells me to get more preparation before I start a Master, then I think I am still young (23 years ) and I will just get that option... Hopefully the Migrations office will accept my Study Visa, because I was told it is highly likely to be rejected as I already done a Bachelor already

Even though the university "student center" told me they have never heard about it.

Hopefully I can start the next Semester
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Old 06.07.2016, 00:42
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

Hi, whether you did your BA or not has no relevance for an embassy to process your application. Countries with advanced economy and hence their embassies work like cyborgs. A detailed and an official report of your financial assets is a must for such visa application process. They want to know that
-you have strong ties with your country,
-no intention to stay any longer than your designated study period,
-no need to work (not including on-campus limited time work),
-whether you previously visited some categorically advanced economy countries and did not stay there,
etc.
Well, above is the usual/normal protocol they follow; there might be some exceptions though.
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Old 06.07.2016, 06:10
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

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Hi, whether you did your BA or not has no relevance for an embassy to process your application. Countries with advanced economy and hence their embassies work like cyborgs. A detailed and an official report of your financial assets is a must for such visa application process. They want to know that
-you have strong ties with your country,
-no intention to stay any longer than your designated study period,
-no need to work (not including on-campus limited time work),
-whether you previously visited some categorically advanced economy countries and did not stay there,
etc.
Well, above is the usual/normal protocol they follow; there might be some exceptions though.
Hi Serk,

I know my embassy will just send my documents, that they won't make any decision. Because at the end the Migrationsamt will make the decision. But it was the fact that in my embassy they told me that maybe I won't get the visa because my previous BA, and they made me really scared. Nevertheless I applied (with fear hahaha)

And I fulfil all the requirements, I got a loan from my parents (check)
I stated in my motivation letter that I want to come back because I am working with my that in his small company ( I hope that would be enough sufficient- half check). and I visited the USA once and switzerland 2 times once for turism the other one for au pair ... (maybe that helps)

I am still scare but as I already applied ... I can just wait

Thanks very much for the information , and I hope I can follow as normal and that they won't make any exception with me and that they will give me the visa

Thanks !!!
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Old 06.07.2016, 10:12
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

True, but your embassy still makes a preliminary processing and they are quite knowledgeable about individual cases. Anyway, this is somewhat off topic (eg cantonal structure, embassies, etc.).
Your application file seems ok assuming that you've included all supportive documents in German/French. Having your documents in one of their official languages would help them understand your case better. I believe you already know these points.
Now, that they mentioned that your previous BA might be a major drawback is reasonable only from their perspective. They will simply ask 'why?' 'why would spend x years to get the same degree?' etc., which in turn would push them to approach your case suspiciously. This is the only thing I can think of actually.
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Old 06.07.2016, 12:33
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

I don't really see why you would be so worried. The only thing that happened is that you're not admitted into the Masters Program. Business Admin and Economics are by no means the same thing; it will not be hard to show that it's different degrees. Aside from that, even if it were the same thing - whether you choose to study for yet another Bachelors or whether you're forced to do so doesn't necessarily have an influence on whether you get a permit or not, at least not that I could see. If you're admitted by the university to the Bachelors program instead of the Masters program, and fulfil all other criteria including financial means, I really don't see how this would be a problem for the migration office.
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Old 06.07.2016, 16:53
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

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True, but your embassy still makes a preliminary processing and they are quite knowledgeable about individual cases. Anyway, this is somewhat off topic (eg cantonal structure, embassies, etc.).
Your application file seems ok assuming that you've included all supportive documents in German/French. Having your documents in one of their official languages would help them understand your case better. I believe you already know these points.
Now, that they mentioned that your previous BA might be a major drawback is reasonable only from their perspective. They will simply ask 'why?' 'why would spend x years to get the same degree?' etc., which in turn would push them to approach your case suspiciously. This is the only thing I can think of actually.
Hi Serk,

I did not know that the embassy did that ... but nevertheless they told me that at the end the embassy will make the decision...

And yes to do this Bachelor I did the Goethe Zertifikat C1, and I passed ! and I translated my previous BA into german and my CV and Motivation letter is also in German supporting why I wanted to do this BA instead of a Master. One of the reasons was that I was not admitted to do the Master by the univeristy. I also attached the letter of rejection that also stated my admission to the BA program.

When I asked support to the univeristy "student center" about this topic, they told me they never heard about any problem of doing a second bachelor from non eu students. Moreover they knew I was from a non eu country and when I applied for the Master Degree I showed my first BA. So I think , if they already knew I had a BA why would they give me the opportunity to do a second bachelor if they know that the Migrations office does not allow that ?

But after my embassy told me that I started doing research on the Internet, I found that in Germany, a girl was also rejected to do a second Bachelor and the reasons the Migrations office, from where she applied, told her that she did not showed enough support to do a second bachelor, that she should instead must do a Master. And a lot of people in that forum told her that it was even hard for germans to do a second BA why would she think doing a second BA for her would be easy , etc ...
Even though I though that kind of rude ... That supported what I was told, and then I started asking in this forum if someone had had any kind of simimliar case , I mean a Swiss case not a german one

I know I stated my reasons to do a BA and not a MAster in my letter, but how the Migrationsoffice people would take it or evaluate it is kind of personal maybe , I think ... that is what scares me the most
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Old 06.07.2016, 16:57
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

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I don't really see why you would be so worried. The only thing that happened is that you're not admitted into the Masters Program. Business Admin and Economics are by no means the same thing; it will not be hard to show that it's different degrees. Aside from that, even if it were the same thing - whether you choose to study for yet another Bachelors or whether you're forced to do so doesn't necessarily have an influence on whether you get a permit or not, at least not that I could see. If you're admitted by the university to the Bachelors program instead of the Masters program, and fulfil all other criteria including financial means, I really don't see how this would be a problem for the migration office.
Hi Samarie13,

At first I though as you because at the end the one that will pay the univeristy and all the other expenses is me. But in the embassy they did not told me that, they told me that I may get rejected because I have already done a BA...

I also wrote to the Migrations Office of the canton, and they did not denied it. They just said it would be a case they would need to study and that they could not give me any more information about...

So there stated my worry for a couple of months til I know their decision, because I was also told that even though I have an admission that did not mean I could have the student visa :/
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Old 06.07.2016, 16:58
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Re: Second Bachelor in Switzerland

Damn. Hadn't realised this was a study related topic. Actually thought that EF had moved into online dating....
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