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Old 11.05.2017, 13:47
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Krippe terminating contract

My little one's krippe has informed me that they intend to terminate our contract. While I've not consulted with a lawyer, this appears to be perfectly legal -- there is a broadly written clause in the contract which allows either party to terminate on three months' notice. Nonetheless, it'd be helpful to hear from those who have been in similar situations. Here's what happened:

- I applied for financial assistance due to a divorce and a change in my ex's circumstances. This was the krippe's own private fee reduction programme, not linked to subsidies from the gemeinde.

- I was informed that the application was rejected.

- I was then advised that the krippe would terminate the contract for my son's care. The reason given: based on the financial information I provided, they felt there was an unacceptably high risk of non-payment. (For context, we had never missed a payment, but my + ex's income is around the almighty CHF120k this year -- we're fine, but not exactly living large.)

- I was advised that I could apply for re-enrolment at a future date, but that the krippe would need to consider our financial circumstances in order to re-admit. Also for context, there is no wait list.

I was initially indignant about the whole thing, and this still strikes me as an inappropriate use of information provided in pursuit of a tuition reduction. On the other hand, I appreciate that they are running a business, and it's within their rights to refuse service.

First question: is this at all typical? I've asked a few friends this same question, but it'd be great to get a wider perspective, and to understand how others have dealt with these circumstances. Second, and related: it's odd for a day care to request financial details as a condition of admission/readmission, yes? If I am asked for these in the future, am I under any obligation to disclose? As implied, first kid, first krippe. But I don't recall any sort of 'means testing' when I was visiting various day care options a couple of years ago.

I should note that my little one has thrived under their care, which is the only reason (a very important reason) why I'm not taking a more confrontational approach, naming and shaming, etc.

TIA, a thousand times TIA!
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Old 11.05.2017, 13:51
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Re: Krippe terminating contract

Could you offer to pay fees in advance?

Obvioulsy this may be a complex case- but I find it bizarre you would ask for reduction in fees with an OH's salary of 120K???
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Old 11.05.2017, 13:56
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Hi Odile,

The krippe currently requires quarterly payment in advance. But I get what you're saying -- if I'm committed to keeping the little one there, it may be wise to go above and beyond the standard payment terms as a show of financial reliability.

Sorry, didn't see the second half -- not that complex, just supporting two households on 120k combined. The upper limit for their assistance programme was (I believe) 150k.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 11.05.2017 at 19:01. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 11.05.2017, 14:04
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Re: Krippe terminating contract

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Sorry, didn't see the second half -- not that complex, just supporting two households on 120k combined. The upper limit for their assistance programme was (I believe) 150k.
Are you working full time too?
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Old 11.05.2017, 14:04
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Re: Krippe terminating contract

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Hi Odile,

The krippe currently requires quarterly payment in advance. But I get what you're saying -- if I'm committed to keeping the little one there, it may be wise to go above and beyond the standard payment terms as a show of financial reliability.
Pay 6 months in advance, this way they are covered
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Old 11.05.2017, 14:08
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Re: Krippe terminating contract

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Are you working full time too?
Working 60%
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Old 11.05.2017, 14:16
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Re: Krippe terminating contract

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... supporting two households on 120k combined. The upper limit for their assistance programme was (I believe) 150k.
I'm confused. You and your ex-husband are both working, and together earn 120k.
  • On what did you base your [own?] application for reduced fees?
  • Would your combined 120k put you, together, in the range of a Krippe's programme for subsidised fees?
  • Does this Krippe provide financial assistance for people earning 150k?
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Old 11.05.2017, 14:30
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Re: Krippe terminating contract

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  • On what did you base your [own?] application for reduced fees?
  • Would your combined 120k put you, together, in the range of a Krippe's programme for subsidised fees?
Sorry.

To clarify: both my ex and I were required to provide proof of income -- current contracts, and income/assets according to the 2016 steuererklaerung. Alongside a spreadsheet detailing current expenditure.

Just re-checked the application, and the programme is available "for families with a gross annual income not exceeding CHF 150,000".

I would have no way of knowing whether assistance is actually dispersed to those on CHF 150k.
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Old 11.05.2017, 14:31
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Re: Krippe terminating contract

Indeed I was also surprised that e.g. the city of Zurich provides financial assistance for childcare up to a combined taxable income of 124K for 2 parents, 1 child, so that is after deductions.
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Old 11.05.2017, 14:46
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Re: Krippe terminating contract

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Indeed I was also surprised that e.g. the city of Zurich provides financial assistance for childcare up to a combined taxable income of 124K for 2 parents, 1 child, so that is after deductions.
Thanks for this info, which surprised me, too.
I tried out this calculator , of the city of Zurich fees:
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/ssd/de/...rechner_a.html
and for 2 parents, 1 child, managed to make it dip to below 100% fees with a taxable income of 123000 and Zero assets, or income 120000 and 130000 assets.

This is very interesting, but not, of course, what OP's question was about, since she specifically wrote that her situation was about the private regulations of that Krippe, not the city's system.
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Old 11.05.2017, 18:09
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Re: Krippe terminating contract

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This is very interesting, but not, of course, what OP's question was about, since she specifically wrote that her situation was about the private regulations of that Krippe, not the city's system.
Well, it sounds like it is loosely based on the city regulations (although 124K after deductions would make even more than 150K gross). I just mentioned this as people seemed surprised that the OP even considered applying for a subsidy on such a seemingly high income. They don't consider that without subsidy, a family with two full time working parents would spend 25% of their combined 120K gross income on childcare. And that is only for 1 child.
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Old 11.05.2017, 19:25
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Re: Krippe terminating contract

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Well, it sounds like it is loosely based on the city regulations (although 124K after deductions would make even more than 150K gross). I just mentioned this as people seemed surprised that the OP even considered applying for a subsidy on such a seemingly high income. They don't consider that without subsidy, a family with two full time working parents would spend 25% of their combined 120K gross income on childcare. And that is only for 1 child.
Thanks for all this info.

Have to say that I'm amazed.

When becoming a "suddenly" single-income parent around '1997' in Zürich, I worked like crazy, without neglecting my daughter - us Moms can multi-task and organise quite well, to pay the fees over those years of good child-care in great private Kindergartens (Montessori).

Cost at that time about CHF 2000.- per month (plus trips etc.).

But, here my point: at that time, these Kindergarten fees were not even tax deductible within the canton Zurich!

So we're talking here about the years between 1997 and 2005 approx. - 'til she was 13. (Nowadays daughter is in Uni).

Very glad to see that this has now changed, and that there are even social subsidies available. Am a bit surprised to see that these are also available for high-income families.

If you have links to anything relating to these subsidies, would really appreciate anything as it's an interesting topic (German etc. is fine).

Many thanks!
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Old 11.05.2017, 20:50
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Re: Krippe terminating contract

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But, here my point: at that time, these Kindergarten fees were not even tax deductible within the canton Zurich!
Doesn't surprise me as at that time there was no paid maternity leave either! All info on subventions is here, including example calculations of the 'beitragsfaktor' you have to pay according to your income & assets:
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/ssd/de/...te/kosten.html
The problem could still be to find a place that is subsidised (private day care centres have a limited number of subsidised places).
This interesting article from a few years ago states that in 2011 in Zurich only 29% of the costs of krippen was paid by parents out of their own pocket. The rest was subsidised by the city. It explains the goal of childcare subsidies for higher income families: to obtain mixed groups from which the kids from socially weaker families can benefit. It obviously worked as since your children were small the percentage of kids going to a krippe in Zurich went up from 13 to 58% (!!!).

Last edited by mgosia; 11.05.2017 at 21:13.
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