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Old 25.06.2017, 22:12
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IT SECURITY studies

Hello guys, i am looking at where to study to become an IT securty nerdy, would love more to be at the french swiss but if you can get me the right points i can keep researching by myself, thank you very much


right points: which canton, real name of the carrier i am not sure if that is the real name, etc

thanks in advancs
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Old 26.06.2017, 01:08
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

Study? I suppose it depend a bit on what sort of security professional you want to end up as, but you don't need a specific degree to win a CTF, nor to have a CVE on your CV. Such victories do lead to job offers in this field. Truely.

I mean yes, there are some university program with some good info, and there is no harm in looking for one, but the more important part will always be a willingness to dig in and figure out what is going on - the whole field was more or less created on the internet for anybody to discover, and it changes faster than textbooks.
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Old 26.06.2017, 04:20
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

In most Cantons there is a professional careers advice centre.

In Bern there is the BIZ http://www.biz.erz.be.ch/biz_erz/fr/index.html

there must be something similar where you live.
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Old 26.06.2017, 08:01
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

Depending on what qualifications you have already, certification without need to go to university can be a good way to go. Google it.
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Old 26.06.2017, 08:59
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

Go to insecure.org, download one or two free vulnerability scanners, learn how they work and become an expert in them. Set up you own website on your own physical hardware with your own Internet fixed IPs and learn how to hack it from outside. This will certainly teach you some basics about network protocols and host security.
Get hold of Feodor's book https://www.amazon.com/Stealing-Netw.../dp/1931836051 to know your enemy.
Read all issues of "Phrack magazine" on phrack.org - you won't be able to succeed in the white hat community without knowing the black hat world.
Then get ISO27001 certificate, and you are all set to apply for ITSec officer job.
Good luck. We need you.
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Old 01.07.2017, 05:07
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

Hi guys! Thank you very much for the info sorry the late answer. I have been diggin it a little bit more. How about the cisco certs instead of college? Thoughts about it? I loved the idea of the scanner and creating my own website and attack it by myself. Thinking in doing it some time soon
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Old 01.07.2017, 09:45
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

Can also try here: https://www.newhorizons.ch/kurs-trai...e/it-security/
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Old 01.07.2017, 10:17
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

No half-sane company will hire anyone without working experience for a position of "Security engineer" or similar. You can show them degrees from private companies all you want.

Basically, you either do the "hard and long" way, ie go through the Swiss education system (Systemtechniker would probably be the most appropriate of the 3 IT apprenticeships, specialising more on security/networking on the way - alternatively doing IT studies, if you're more the theoretical person.. just keep in mind that most people working in IT in Switzerland did NOT study, and you might be considered "overqualified" for a regular position when you arrive with a master degree..)

Anyway, it will take you at least 4 year for an apprenticeship or studies (well, 3 years for a Bachelor)

It seems what you prefer would be the "Quereinsteiger", ie getting into IT without much background. Doing a lonely Cisco or Microsoft (or whatever) certificate won't help you much, and they're quite expensive. Honestly, those certificates are mostly about learning something by heart. Not more, not less. 80%, dare I to say 90% of it, you won't use in your daily job.

The times when companies where hiring people who did self-study are quite a bit over if you're lacking references. If you started in the 90s, kept up on good jobs and built up your knowledge, it doesn't matter what education you had. But getting into the "IT world" in 2017 in Switzerland without solid education (ie, apprenticeship or IT studies) isn't all that easy.

Depending on your age, I would strongly suggest to actually do a proper education path. Otherwise, all "IT related" jobs you probably will find are either as salesman for Mediamarkt and the like, or in a truly low-paid field from a company that is looking for cheap staff. Sure, you could go that path, trying to use the reference after a while to get a better job, and getting your skills.

But if you stay there for less than 2 years, it's not going to help reference-wise, and the first job after such a "starting one" probably won't yet be what you like either. And if you do too much job hopping, you might not get the good offers either. Changing every 4-5 years isn't bad. But if you do that, doing a proper education from start would have been the saner approach.

Sure, there are some miracles. But if you just want to "work in IT security", without a reasonable background, that will be extremely hard to achieve.
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Old 01.07.2017, 10:34
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

IMO, anyone who has to ask "how do I become an IT security expert" has already disqualified themselves from being an IT security expert.
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Old 01.07.2017, 10:36
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

Especially when they appear unable to use Google

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IMO, anyone who has to ask "how do I become an IT security expert" has already disqualified themselves from being an IT security expert.
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Old 01.07.2017, 10:39
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IMO, anyone who has to ask "how do I become an IT security expert" has already disqualified themselves from being an IT security expert.
Sorry i wasnt born being a genius like you

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Especially when they appear unable to use Google
People being sensitive about a dude that knows nothing and that is why i do a question. Maybe i would andwer you the same way about how to put an iv while bullets ran over your head and you have to use covering fire. Would you like that? I bet you would. If you have nothing constructive to share better keep your way and say nothing. That way you look more genius and less asshole

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No half-sane company will hire anyone without working experience for a position of "Security engineer" or similar. You can show them degrees from private companies all you want.

Basically, you either do the "hard and long" way, ie go through the Swiss education system (Systemtechniker would probably be the most appropriate of the 3 IT apprenticeships, specialising more on security/networking on the way - alternatively doing IT studies, if you're more the theoretical person.. just keep in mind that most people working in IT in Switzerland did NOT study, and you might be considered "overqualified" for a regular position when you arrive with a master degree..)

Anyway, it will take you at least 4 year for an apprenticeship or studies (well, 3 years for a Bachelor)

It seems what you prefer would be the "Quereinsteiger", ie getting into IT without much background. Doing a lonely Cisco or Microsoft (or whatever) certificate won't help you much, and they're quite expensive. Honestly, those certificates are mostly about learning something by heart. Not more, not less. 80%, dare I to say 90% of it, you won't use in your daily job.

The times when companies where hiring people who did self-study are quite a bit over if you're lacking references. If you started in the 90s, kept up on good jobs and built up your knowledge, it doesn't matter what education you had. But getting into the "IT world" in 2017 in Switzerland without solid education (ie, apprenticeship or IT studies) isn't all that easy.

Depending on your age, I would strongly suggest to actually do a proper education path. Otherwise, all "IT related" jobs you probably will find are either as salesman for Mediamarkt and the like, or in a truly low-paid field from a company that is looking for cheap staff. Sure, you could go that path, trying to use the reference after a while to get a better job, and getting your skills.

But if you stay there for less than 2 years, it's not going to help reference-wise, and the first job after such a "starting one" probably won't yet be what you like either. And if you do too much job hopping, you might not get the good offers either. Changing every 4-5 years isn't bad. But if you do that, doing a proper education from start would have been the saner approach.

Sure, there are some miracles. But if you just want to "work in IT security", without a reasonable background, that will be extremely hard to achieve.

Awesome! Yeah age is playing against me as papers to study here. I moved out when i was 6 and lived 19 years in peru one in the states and is drivig me crazy all i have to do to start studying. Gotta keep heads up and making my way. Thank you for the answer with all the appreciation you made. Really appreciate it

Last edited by 3Wishes; 01.07.2017 at 13:50. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 02.07.2017, 13:07
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

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Sorry i wasnt born being a genius like you
What type of job do you think "Security Nerdy" is?

You won't know what hackers are doing this year by having taken a course last year. You won't find vulnerabilities before the hackers without some practice in looking for vulnerabilities. While plenty of insecure coding practices almost seem perennial, a competent security review is a lot more than going through a compliance checklist.

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with a bit of formal IT education, maybe even a certificate - I've heard that SANS certificates are decent. But in some sense, competent security engineering is more about mindset and the ability to research independently, than about any static collection of facts. Your first job should be at a company with enough institutional knowledge to actually train you, and they will care more about this attitude than about the exact subject of your degree.

P.S. DEFCON is coming up. With care and a bit of luck regarding airfare, it tends to be pretty cheap as conferences go. When starting out you can learn a lot about how things work in IT security by chatting with attendees and presenters. Also, the CCC conference every winter in Berlin, and it looks like B-Sides Zurich is happening again this September. You will find people who hire security engineers at any of these, and none of them are expensive to attend.

Last edited by ThomasSSS; 02.07.2017 at 13:51.
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Old 02.07.2017, 13:42
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

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Hello guys, i am looking at where to study to become an IT securty nerdy, would love more to be at the french swiss but if you can get me the right points i can keep researching by myself, thank you very much


right points: which canton, real name of the carrier i am not sure if that is the real name, etc

thanks in advancs
How old are you? Do you have any previous IT experience and/or are you good with IT in general? IT security is a broad and often complex topic that requires background knowledge and familiarity in a wide range of areas that is usually built up over many years.

Also I think you should look to improve your English skills, as judging from your posts it is nowhere near good enough for a corporte environment where as an IT security professional you would have to write reports and explain your findings/solutions in great detail.

Last edited by Richdog; 02.07.2017 at 13:50. Reason: Fixed mis-quote
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Old 02.07.2017, 16:28
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

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Sorry i wasnt born being a genius like you

....

And therein lies the rub.

Either
- you worked at it and have an aptitude
or
- you are a genius

Also wasn't
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Old 09.07.2017, 08:43
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

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How old are you? Do you have any previous IT experience and/or are you good with IT in general? IT security is a broad and often complex topic that requires background knowledge and familiarity in a wide range of areas that is usually built up over many years.

Also I think you should look to improve your English skills, as judging from your posts it is nowhere near good enough for a corporte environment where as an IT security professional you would have to write reports and explain your findings/solutions in great detail.

thank you very much for the info, actually the english is good, at least is what my gf's family in the states say lol, i dont practice very much as i am in the military with the rommonds, and i have only 1 person to talk to in english until i find the time when m y gf's wakes up. Gonna keep improving though is not a lie what you say, they will need complete and detailed information about my work. thank you very much, what are your thoughts about the A+ certification? Any place you know i can go? I honestly do not trust the online payments but if they are the best option i wont say no either
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Old 09.07.2017, 09:05
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

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thank you very much for the info, actually the english is good, at least is what my gf's family in the states say lol, i dont practice very much as i am in the military with the rommonds, and i have only 1 person to talk to in english until i find the time when m y gf's wakes up. Gonna keep improving though is not a lie what you say, they will need complete and detailed information about my work. thank you very much, what are your thoughts about the A+ certification? Any place you know i can go? I honestly do not trust the online payments but if they are the best option i wont say no either
If you want to get into IT security, and you are asking about the A+ certificate, then without meaning to be rude your chances do not look good. A+ is what someone would take for getting a basic 1st line technical support job. As for your English, it is not good, at least in written form.

You also didn't answer my question about your previous IT experience and knowledge. To me it sounds like you are randomly choosing IT security without really knowing anything about the field or what it involves.
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Old 09.07.2017, 10:53
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

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thank you very much for the info, actually the english is good, at least is what my gf's family in the states say lol, i dont practice very much as i am in the military with the rommonds, and i have only 1 person to talk to in english until i find the time when m y gf's wakes up. Gonna keep improving though is not a lie what you say, they will need complete and detailed information about my work. thank you very much, what are your thoughts about the A+ certification? Any place you know i can go? I honestly do not trust the online payments but if they are the best option i wont say no either
Your ability to speak and understand English is one thing. The fact remains that, based upon the evidence in this thread, your written English is poor and as a consequence you are far less likely to be taken seriously.
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Old 10.07.2017, 06:19
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

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If you want to get into IT security, and you are asking about the A+ certificate, then without meaning to be rude your chances do not look good. A+ is what someone would take for getting a basic 1st line technical support job. As for your English, it is not good, at least in written form.

You also didn't answer my question about your previous IT experience and knowledge. To me it sounds like you are randomly choosing IT security without really knowing anything about the field or what it involves.
Is understandable yes. But, does anyone start a research cause they know everything about the topic? If I woukd know all about being an IT engineer I would not be like an ass here asking questions. Anyway I appreciate your time for answering me. I do not understand thogh why the bithy attitude from the rest. Looks like I offended people somehow and as all are Americans here that is not something new
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Old 10.07.2017, 06:21
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

Thank you all got what i needed. Peace out.
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Old 10.07.2017, 06:26
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Re: IT SECURITY studies

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Looks like I offended people somehow and as all are Americans here that is not something new
What has that to do with Americans?? Apart from the fact that people come from a multitude of countries, including a lot of Swiss people.
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