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Old 25.09.2018, 19:09
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integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

Hi All,

I needed information on integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung.

My kid just started Kindergarten and does not speak german.
He is shy and finds it difficult to make friends.
As far as his motor skills and cognitive development is considered it is all good as per our doctor.

But the Kiga teacher says he needs integrative förderung.
Want to know from other parents, what exactly is this and does it have any negative impacts ?

The lady responsible for the integrative förderung seems very rude to us and from day one has been very discouraging.
Feel very cofused.
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Old 25.09.2018, 20:04
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

So do we, can you write in English please
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Old 25.09.2018, 21:29
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

integrative förderung is Integrative Support in Kindergaten


and psychomotorischen abkürzung is Psychomotor Therapy
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Old 25.09.2018, 21:40
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

I'm confused. "Abkürzung" means "abbreviation", not "therapy".

If may be that "integrative Förderung" means promoting integration,
  • socially which would be good since as you say he is shy, and
  • linguistically, i.e. special lessons in German. This is usual for all foreign-language (meaning, not German or Swiss-German) children in state Kindergarten and School in the Canton of Zurich.
This latter is a fantastic service by the state schools, and a huge blessing.

Although those special lessons are for the children, this is, too, the time for the parents to practice their own German, and try to Keep up with the children, as they whizz through to proficiency.

https://www.ch.ch/en/school-support-immigrants/

Last edited by doropfiz; 25.09.2018 at 21:55.
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Old 25.09.2018, 21:55
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

Thanks for the response.

What is bothering me is the teacher for IF has been very rude to us from day 1 and her words have been very discoutaging for us.

In the meeting she told us this would help and gave us few forms to sign, which we said we would read and try and ressearch. When I came home and translated them there certain things that have been written which are not true.

-> motor skills - which doctor and Kita said is good has been mentioned as an issue.
->they have also mentioned he cannot draw: where as he draws and even can write alaphabets.

The programs as designed and as per the stadt Zurich look good.
But since these incorrect things are mentioned in the form I do not want to sign them. What happens if you do not sign as I do not agree with all points.
(Few points are correct though)
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Old 25.09.2018, 22:00
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

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Thanks for the response.

What is bothering me is the teacher for IF has been very rude to us from day 1 and her words have been very discoutaging for us.

In the meeting she told us this would help and gave us few forms to sign, which we said we would read and try and ressearch. When I came home and translated them there certain things that have been written which are not true.

-> motor skills - which doctor and Kita said is good has been mentioned as an issue.
->they have also mentioned he cannot draw: where as he draws and even can write alaphabets.

The programs as designed and as per the stadt Zurich look good.
But since these incorrect things are mentioned in the form I do not want to sign them. What happens if you do not sign as I do not agree with all points.
(Few points are correct though)

What do you mean by "rude". Not trying to be awkward, rude can be subjective.

Change the things on the form your doctor gave you conflicting info on and initial. Ask for clarification from the Kita on why they have concerns, based on what, whose expertise etc.

Maybe your son "just" needs to settle in and relax so he feels comfortable enough to draw etc.
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Old 25.09.2018, 22:12
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

There are absolutely no consequences if your son gets IF. It just means he gets some extra support in the areas mentioned.
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Old 25.09.2018, 22:21
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

One thing that will certainly be to your son's disadvantage is if you do anything that could get you put into the box labelled: "Difficult Parent Who Doesn't Understand Our Systems and Who Won't Learn German". If that happens to you, it will work out badly for him, now, and in the future.

Therefore, I'd recommend that you base your decisions on finding ways to work with, and not against, the teacher (and the rest of the powers that be, at the school), if at all possible.

Whatever it was that made you feel she was being rude to you… just remember that at least a part of it gets lost in translation, not only language wise, but also culturally. It is at least possible that she did not mean to be rude, and just as possible that she may have found something you did to be rude. Without your realising it.

So my advice would be to try to go beyond that and bridge the gap. Remember, in some sense, they are "your boss", and the best to do is tame them, win them over, etc.

I'd recommend taking the form back, and saying that you've now read up about the language support and are super impressed, and very grateful that Switzerland offers such a service for immigrant children, and (if this is true) that you doubt very much that your country of origin provides the same. Then say that you're glad your son has the opportunity, thank you, and that these and these other points on the form make sense to you, too.

Next, ask whether she could explain to you about the motor skills, and the drawing, since you had not thought there were deficits nor had, as far as you had understood, the doctor and the KITA. So now you are naturally a little concerned to learn that she thinks there are. Could she please give you examples of what she has observed, so you can understand better? Of course you are aware that we all behave differently in different settings, and so perhaps she is seeing something at school that you hadn't noticed at home Or vice versa (have a few of your son's drawings in your bag, in case you want to show her, once the atmosphere is more easy-going). Also, the KITA must have used a certain type of assessment, and the doctor perhaps another, and perhaps she yet another. That's why you'd really like to know, from her, please.

I can imagine that you might not like my suggestions, since you already feel she was rude to you, and you disagree with the entries on the form. However, schools here don't work according to any concept of consumer rights, and they do weild a lot of authority. Therefore, if you can nip any animosity, be it hers or yours, in the bud, and turn the relationship into one of cooperation and collaboration, you will be doing your son a great service.

Edit: I see now that Rufus said it so much more succinctly!
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Old 25.09.2018, 22:54
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

Thanks all for the support.
The teacher though speaks german has never been rude and her intention seems good.

The therapist for IF is the one whose way of talking I find very harsh.
She speaks english so its not a matter of translation.(May be my perception and generally talks to everybody like that)

I have been reading about the program and I really find the program good in terms of integration but its beacuse of the IF therapist I am reluctant.
And more so because they told us one thing and when I translated the papers back home I found incorrect entries and points which were not discussed.


As suggested will dicuss again with them and try to understand the gaps and proceed as per their suggestion.

thanks
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Old 25.09.2018, 22:56
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

Be also aware that the teacher/therapist might have to indicate a particular combination of needs to be able to get the funding.



Personally, my interaction with the psychomotorik has been very good. I would also put a word of advice, to try not to take it all too seriously. The best thing (as someone else has already pointed out) is to try to work with what is being offered, in the most positive way.



As you have already acknowledged, your child is both shy and lacking in German. This is a way to get the extra support that can help them. The sooner that help is given, the better for your child.



I assume the 'IF' person you met (and felt was rude) was probably either the referral service, or the school psychologist. In my experience, they are going to be the most efficient. They aren't about time-wasting - they are paid well and they have lots of children to see. Most parents they see will be not ready yet to hear too much about problems...and some are quite likely in denial or angry about being referred... they give you the basic information, and then they plan out the next steps. If you can't understand enough German to have an effective conversation, then I highly recommend that you organise someone to come to the appointment who can help you to understand. My German is 'not that good' but my husband's has always been good enough to translate for me... usually the first couple of appointments are done more in German, and then as we get to know each other, a mix of German and English to help me along.


By the way, our children's psych assessment was done by different psychologists, and the psychomotorik person was someone different as well... both our kids found 1:1 psych therapy difficult...but loved psychomotorik!
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Old 26.09.2018, 09:37
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

My daughter is in 2.Klasse. She has high anxiety. Half way through 1.klasse I found out she was going to IF. No one asked me, I didn't sign anything. She loves it, it seems to be helping her and she is going again this year. There are 16 kids i her class and I believe 6 or 7 of them go to IF for lots of different reasons. My daughter goes with 2 other girls who also have high anxiety/shy. I am so happy that the school want to help everyone so much. My son has just started kindy and I presume he will go to IF too as he has a few social/behavioural "problems". I am sure he will love it too.
Off topic - I LOVE our kids school and I think my kids teachers are sooo good. I am totally impressed but I do think we have been so lucky with an awesome school and great teachers.
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Old 26.09.2018, 10:54
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

Quote:
View Post
One thing that will certainly be to your son's disadvantage is if you do anything that could get you put into the box labelled: "Difficult Parent Who Doesn't Understand Our Systems and Who Won't Learn German". If that happens to you, it will work out badly for him, now, and in the future.

Therefore, I'd recommend that you base your decisions on finding ways to work with, and not against, the teacher (and the rest of the powers that be, at the school), if at all possible.

Whatever it was that made you feel she was being rude to you… just remember that at least a part of it gets lost in translation, not only language wise, but also culturally. It is at least possible that she did not mean to be rude, and just as possible that she may have found something you did to be rude. Without your realising it.

So my advice would be to try to go beyond that and bridge the gap. Remember, in some sense, they are "your boss", and the best to do is tame them, win them over, etc.

I'd recommend taking the form back, and saying that you've now read up about the language support and are super impressed, and very grateful that Switzerland offers such a service for immigrant children, and (if this is true) that you doubt very much that your country of origin provides the same. Then say that you're glad your son has the opportunity, thank you, and that these and these other points on the form make sense to you, too.

Next, ask whether she could explain to you about the motor skills, and the drawing, since you had not thought there were deficits nor had, as far as you had understood, the doctor and the KITA. So now you are naturally a little concerned to learn that she thinks there are. Could she please give you examples of what she has observed, so you can understand better? Of course you are aware that we all behave differently in different settings, and so perhaps she is seeing something at school that you hadn't noticed at home Or vice versa (have a few of your son's drawings in your bag, in case you want to show her, once the atmosphere is more easy-going). Also, the KITA must have used a certain type of assessment, and the doctor perhaps another, and perhaps she yet another. That's why you'd really like to know, from her, please.

I can imagine that you might not like my suggestions, since you already feel she was rude to you, and you disagree with the entries on the form. However, schools here don't work according to any concept of consumer rights, and they do weild a lot of authority. Therefore, if you can nip any animosity, be it hers or yours, in the bud, and turn the relationship into one of cooperation and collaboration, you will be doing your son a great service.

Edit: I see now that Rufus said it so much more succinctly!
Well put.

There are a few cultural differences here which when understood make it easier to understand why someone appears "rude" especially when English is a second language for either party. The Swiss are generally quite direct and clear in their communication and if the person is an Authority figure (doctor/teacher ect) then more so added to this is English spoken by a German speaker always sound a bit harsher, so often it is not personal. If you do ask for help (they generally won't offer it as this would be impolite for them) they will help. As said above asking 'how can I help you to help my child?' will bring the best outcome and then analysis whether this is correct and fair.
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Old 26.09.2018, 12:38
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

Thanks everybody for the reponses and giving me different persepective to look at it postively.

This is all the help I needed.

Thanks to each one of you.
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Old 26.09.2018, 12:55
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

First of all, I want to say that doropfiz and rifusb wrote very useful comments, especially about putting the perceived rudeness behind you and focusing on the help and not being a 'problem parent' who works against the school.

I want to add that sending kids to Psychomotorik and getting IF support is extremely common, at least in Zürich and, as far as I know, there are neither stigma attached nor are there any serious consequences.

I think, in the Kindergarten my kids went to, more than half of the kids had some extra support for these type of things.

The reasons (actually, the reasons don't matter) might be that...
  1. the School system had hired so many staff and their slots need to be filled
  2. the kindergarten teachers are afraid of missing a problem later and being blamed for it so they send any kid where they have any doubt for extra help,
  3. the school system has a policy athat it is much cheaper and more effective to overhelp in kindergarden and that they feel it prevents many problems later.

I would even recommend not to be especially picky or to focus to long about the reason as knowing more details probably won't help you at all. Indications that I heard from our son's kindergarten teacher were things like holding a scissors wrong, or issues with drawing and bad posture while sitting in circle or at desks. Who knows if these are 'real problems,' but the teacher sure thought they were.

As I wrote above, many many kids went to the extra support, none of them carried any baggage about it and they certainly didn't seemed harmed (and were perhaps helped) by the extra attention in a small groups setting.

Last edited by jazh; 26.09.2018 at 12:56. Reason: Spelled rudeness wrong
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Old 26.09.2018, 13:34
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

The School system had hired so many staff and their slots need to be filled.
Forget that! :-)


The Kanton/State - doesn't like to splurge money on extra teachers and there are always just the necessary teachers around.

I teach IF and DaZ because there are not enough fully trained teachers around anyway for this kind of teaching. Ask the principals.


IF: I do have some IF-slots for open- mixed -groups: children who just use my class for a couple of times because of some problems they have. Or some need more and get more challenges in my classes/hours. They come and go.

And then I teach also IS kids who have more serious problems - developmental or handicapped in other ways. If I realize that there are problems I'm not familiar enough with, I organize a parent - teacher-therapist meeting. If all feel the child needs to be tested by a professional from Schulpsychologischer Dienst, we'll organize those tests.

After that, a curriculum for this child will be set up and I - and also other therapists - will train the child in the areas in which he/her needs support.

Last edited by marischi; 26.09.2018 at 15:54.
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Old 26.09.2018, 14:24
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

IF = Integrationsförderung (promotion of integration)
Daz = Deutsch als Zweitsprache (German as a second language)
IS =
Schulpsychologischer Dienst = school psychology service
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Old 26.09.2018, 16:05
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

Hi dorpopfiz

Thanks for the explanations!

But IF means Integrative Förderung /Integrated Support maybe?

It means that the child/ children stay in class or nearby in a room and thus are taught in their own class. They should not feel "outsourced" and children with no needs are often welcomed in my groups. This children love it, too and they unwittingly help to teach the needier kids.
This is often more successful than my prepared lessons! I love this mixed approach - and it works well.

Lately, I asked the kids who wanted to tag along. I choose one of the willing ones - he jumped up, beamed and said "Oh, I was with you three weeks ago! I thought I had to wait till Christmas to help you again! "
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Old 26.09.2018, 20:44
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

Reading that gave me goosebumps. Well done, marischi, and thank you for sharing that moment. You are obviously doing something very, very right! You really seem to care, and it does my heart good to read that.
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Old 26.09.2018, 20:45
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

The child of a friend was also recommended to be in an IF program and motor skills improvement program. The parents hesitated but even the child felt out of sorts with the shyness and language issues, so was willing to try anything. A year later the child is much happier, much more coordinated, and much better integrated. Time well spent, for the whole family.

BTW the "drawing" bit isn't really about drawing. It's about motor skills and hand-eye coordination and the ability to focus (so says my friend, anyway).
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Old 04.10.2018, 04:59
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Re: integrative förderung and psychomotorischen abkürzung

Hi ArchK, how're things going at your son's school, and the "integrative Förderung"?

Have you made friends and influenced people, yet? https://www.englishforum.ch/general-...-carnegie.html
Win them over, win them over.
Impress them week by week with your progress in learning German.

Hope your son is settling in nicely.
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