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  #81  
Old 09.01.2019, 10:33
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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Schools/Universities: in the past (before internet time), information was held almost solely by the Professors. The teaching method was: a professor come in a class with students, provide information for 45 minutes and go out. the next Prof. come in, provide info and go out.
The students had to absorb this info during 3-4 years and do with it something, whether it was useful or not.
Now, the situation is different, especially after the online education (e.g. Cursera) popped up.
maybe that`s one reason why some of the conventional education institutes are struggling and some members in this thread mention that "the system should be updated".
As if books didn't exist back then. You didn't need to attend lectures, it was just another channel to provide the info that was also available in books and lecture scripts.
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  #82  
Old 09.01.2019, 10:44
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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Just to pick up on the universities thing; students attend lectures with, depending on what you are studying, reasonably minimal information but you are expected to research much of the subject yourself having been given the topics, tools and methods to do that.

It's nothing to do with professors "holding onto the information". Most universities won't take you if you can't demonstrate the ability to study for yourself, or they will and, if you can't, you end up crashing out.

I think you are trying to see things in black and white. Students need the knowledge, teaching methods and experience of professors while also possessing the ability to use that as a springboard to research the subject, return to tutorials and critically discuss, edit and conclude by themselves.

Used to be done in libraries and labs, now the internet is an additional tool.
The internet does not replace only the library and books, it replaces also the professors...

a bit off topic, but I think that JagWaugh`s statement: "But it's knowledge that is at the core of the ability to do" is reflected quite well in the Swiss education system in the form of the apprenticeships.
I find that the Swiss maintain this system in a very good manner.
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Old 09.01.2019, 10:48
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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The internet does not replace only the library and books, it replaces also the professors...
I wouldn't want someone operating on me in a hospital who had picked up a bit of surgery off YouTube, and cross-referenced it with WebMD "just to be sure".

I didn't say the internet replaces anything. I said it was an additional tool.

It's pretty narrow-minded, if you think about it, to assume that the internet replaces educators, books and other learning materials.

Someone had to feed the internet with information in the first place.
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  #84  
Old 09.01.2019, 10:49
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

Just to mix things up a bit, there is a risk of being over analytical and over correct (always subjectively correct). There's a good chance you can alienate yourself from the general population.


I'm sure we all know of a few people who are super book smart - in many fields, maybe also amazing an instrument as well, but have zero social skills or social awareness.


Perhaps the general population is becoming dumber (relatively - think Idiocracy), but in the end the human race is a combined society more than a collection in individuals.


Marketing influence is arguably the strongest power, and more so as the upcoming generation (I guess the working class already) has grown up only knowing this.


Remember, a super intelligent person, with all the right answers but no society skills will never bring change. Whereas a charismatic, socially apt person will always be successful whether they are right or not.
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Old 09.01.2019, 11:19
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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Lets look at the following 3 examples, thinking of information (or knowledge)as a source for power: Governments, companies, schools/uni
Government: in the past (before internet time), information was held very tight by the government and its officials.

Companies: in the past (before internet time), information was held very tight by the boss and his/her close circle.

Schools/Universities: in the past (before internet time), information was held almost solely by the Professors.

Now comes the question, so how to obtain knowledge?
Indeed, as you mentioned "Information may enable you, but it's knowledge which empowers you".
If information is available anywhere/anytime (and this is the case), we don't have to make efforts anymore to obtain it. We can simply google it
In the past most of this information was held in libraries. Specially in University settings and also Government. It was all there and not actually hidden. In Business settings it was archives. Using Google is not more than using the library index card system, finding the correct book or manual, and operating the microfilm viewer.

Also navigating on a map (last vacation we used paper maps to navigate over 3000 km!) or using GPS is the same thing in a different packaging and color.

The most important skill you need is flexibility and being adaptabel to new challenges and a changed environment.
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  #86  
Old 09.01.2019, 11:20
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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The internet does not replace only the library and books, it replaces also the professors...

a bit off topic, but I think that JagWaugh`s statement: "But it's knowledge that is at the core of the ability to do" is reflected quite well in the Swiss education system in the form of the apprenticeships.
I find that the Swiss maintain this system in a very good manner.
I see the internet as an additional and useful tool, which will gain more and more importance but will not replace the classic education system. A child needs to learn many other things in school, you know that.

On the other hand....if I had to choose between an incompetent or unsympathetic teacher and a virtual better "educator"... hmmm....I don't know what to say. You might be onto something...:-)

On a more serious note, I am very curious about the idea of home schooling. I know your aim isn't to home school your kids, but this discussion brought it to my mind. I understand there are children who are naturally more curious than others and more difficult to keep interested during regular classes, but I wonder if a parent (or parents) can successfully take care of their children education. Even if they're qualified in this area. A child learns not only how and what to learn in school, but also how to be part of a group, of the....well, if it isn't that big of a word - I would use society. They'll be confronted with other people's ideas and personalities later on and their environment won't be always nurturing and lacking any shade of hostility, be it even in the form of let's say scarcity. Mind, I'm not pessimistic or anything like this, but as I said before, a child learns so much more in a school class - to cooperate, to argue and stand up for their ideas, to negotiate. If you're only home schooling your kids, I don't know where they can get all these skills from. A family, even a big one with a good few siblings, can't really recreate the society. We need other people. We need to connect with them.
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  #87  
Old 09.01.2019, 11:50
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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dont use/rely on google = dont use/rely on your car gps
None of our vehicles have gps.

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  #88  
Old 09.01.2019, 11:54
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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I said "Lets figure it out" a lot when the children were younger, even when I could have just opened a book and pointed at a page of information.
At the risk of being rude, you sound like my dad and it's actually making me a bit emotional. Every task we did together, from mending my bike to decorating my brother's bedroom, began with "Let's work this out. What do you think we need to do here? How should we do it?" My dad invested a lot of time in me because my brother was a very different person to him, with a totally different skills set.
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I'm sure we all know of a few people who are super book smart - in many fields, maybe also amazing an instrument as well, but have zero social skills or social awareness.
My brother .
Photographic memory, head of an award winning legal team, barrister, etc...yet he doesn't possess a single grain of common sense, and never has (his wife agrees with me). He once caused a huge row with my mum by insisting that the definition of poor was having less than 5 figures in your current account (in the 80s). His social worker wife has since put him right on that score. He was 45 before he could wire a plug, and has never mastered ironing a shirt, but has maintained the friendship and devotion of all his past girlfriends.

To his credit, if someone asks my brother for help with conveyancing or divorce law, he always tells them to speak to an expert because they were never his particular field of law. He would never dream of teaching law, but worked very hard to get his rugby and football coaching qualifications. He knows his limitations.

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The internet does not replace only the library and books, it replaces also the professors...
That will never happen.
Information takes you to the door of knowledge. A good professor / tutor provides the key. A great tutor enters the room with you and instills their enthusiasm in you.
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  #89  
Old 09.01.2019, 12:10
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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The internet does not replace only the library and books, it replaces also the professors...
My faculty was a DIY faculty. The professor showed up and told us we had to plan a building in 3 months, and then left us to fend for ourselves for the following 90 days.

I had internet. Yet all I wanted was a professor. I wanted guidance. I wanted someone with the knowledge to help me sort the weeds from the hay. All I learnt was how to copy someone else's work.

The internet is a great tool because it provides you with information that was impossible to get 2 decades ago (I can still remember trying to find information about the economical status of Peru for my 9th grade Geography classes and I had zilch even after visiting the public library). But overflowing you with information, some of it from non-serious sources or even erroneous ones, might be worse than only having one old dusty book in the local library.

The internet can never substitute teachers, but can (and should?) change the way we interact with them.
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  #90  
Old 09.01.2019, 12:16
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

Between youtube and google you can learn almost everything now, but that's not to say this is the only way or should be.
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Old 09.01.2019, 12:17
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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That will never happen.
Information takes you to the door of knowledge. A good professor / tutor provides the key. A great tutor enters the room with you and instills their enthusiasm in you.
I totally agree. You said something about your brother knowing his limitations - an expert in his field but not a pedagogue. I think this is a gift, a talent that not everyone (including teachers) has. Teachers who inspire their students...they are the best. A lot of good things are supposed to start in the family, but even if a child is not that lucky, there are people who can bring the best in them. I've seen it happen, that's why I never underestimated the importance of a good teacher, or school.

As someone who loves children and spends a lot of time with them (not only mine) - at a party or some gathering I often find them much more interesting and fun to watch and interact, play with. Discuss "serious" matters. There's so much potential and yes, love, in these little buddies, I understand OP's desire to be more involved.
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Old 09.01.2019, 13:39
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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Between youtube and google you can learn almost everything now, but that's not to say this is the only way or should be.
You can't. Just as an example, there have been several bombs in Manchester since 1945. If you search for information about them, the two most recent incidents smother the information about the previous ones, therefore you need more 90% of the information about the earlier ones to filter the results. That's the nature of search engines.
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Old 09.01.2019, 15:55
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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You can't. Just as an example, there have been several bombs in Manchester since 1945. If you search for information about them, the two most recent incidents smother the information about the previous ones, therefore you need more 90% of the information about the earlier ones to filter the results. That's the nature of search engines.
I was thinking more along the lines of learning a skill, not searching for news. Of course, you also need some basic information to start your search.
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Old 09.01.2019, 16:15
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

I'm not a channel watcher, but the SO watches a few makeup youtubes.


There was a funny one about one person complaining about coming of age, trying make up--because that's what girl did, and spending the next decade actually learning how to apply make up by trial-and-error.


For her, it was coming of age, and part of the awkward struggle of growing up and being a teenager. However the generation of girls now don't have that struggle, and can master the craft before they are even teenagers, thanks to youtube.


Really puts a lot into perspective of the technology shift we have gone through in the last 25 years.
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Old 09.01.2019, 16:16
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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At the risk of being rude, you sound like my dad and it's actually making me a bit emotional. Every task we did together, from mending my bike to decorating my brother's bedroom, began with "Let's work this out. What do you think we need to do here? How should we do it?" My dad invested a lot of time in me because my brother was a very different person to him, with a totally different skills set.
Sorry for that.

Our two were chalk and cheese. One was far enough into the ADD spectrum that although there was a lot of curiosity, there was very very little patience left over to re-enforce a learning moment. The other was definitely more inclined to sit through figuring stuff out.

The last thing I wanted to do was drag someone through a learning exercise, so I chose my moments.

They're both intelligent, and they've both turned out well (I think).

Fortunately they always loved each other enough that there was no jealousy. Was there a tension between your brother and you?
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Old 09.01.2019, 20:21
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

Hi Adalin, my kids would be interested. Not weekly, but once or twice a month. I think it’s a great idea.
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Old 09.01.2019, 22:00
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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I'm not a channel watcher, but the SO watches a few makeup youtubes.


There was a funny one about one person complaining about coming of age, trying make up--because that's what girl did, and spending the next decade actually learning how to apply make up by trial-and-error.


For her, it was coming of age, and part of the awkward struggle of growing up and being a teenager. However the generation of girls now don't have that struggle, and can master the craft before they are even teenagers, thanks to youtube.


Really puts a lot into perspective of the technology shift we have gone through in the last 25 years.
Next thing you know she will be sticking permanent fake lashes on you in your sleep, watch out.

Education, I tell ya. Dangerous stuff.
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Old 10.01.2019, 01:57
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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Our two were chalk and cheese. One was far enough into the ADD spectrum that although there was a lot of curiosity, there was very very little patience left over to re-enforce a learning moment.
That sounds very familiar.
From what I've learned from three close friends with autistic kids, I'd put both my brother and my partner on the spectrum, but moreso my brother. He didn't speak a word until he was 4, still has a tendancy to walk on the balls of his feet at 61, and has an obsessive single mindedness about tasks. He's also rubbish at reading social situations and people's reactions, but cross him on a point of law, and he'll recite reams of Stone's Justices' Manual without opening the books.

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Fortunately they always loved each other enough that there was no jealousy. Was there a tension between your brother and you?
Allegedly, he's loved me from day 1, but I have proof that he was more impressed with the Dalek's jigsaw puzzle that our dad bought him when I was born.

Jealousy has never been an issue. Mind you, it's not an emotion I've ever been afflicted with. I just don't see the point of it to be honest. Mum treated us both the same and we both share a lot of her traits. Dad loved gardening, fishing, shooting, walking the dog, etc, which I also enjoyed. My brother prefered staying in his room reading Asimov and Solschenizyn whilst listening to early Genesis, The Doors and Led Zepp.

Frustration has been an issue because we're both stubborn, but he also has a phenomenal streak of arrogance at times, that just stuns me.
He's 8yrs my senior, and was by far the biggest influence on my formative years. We have the same taste in musik, largely the same extended group of friends, drank in the same pubs, etc. The weird thing is that he tells people (including his wife) that I'm cleverer than him because he studied for exams and I never did, yet still passed.
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Old 10.01.2019, 04:31
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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The internet does not replace only the library and books, it replaces also the professors...
You can't be serious?
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Old 10.01.2019, 07:42
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Re: Education reinforcement at home

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The internet does not replace only the library and books, it replaces also the professors...
Poor home schooled children.
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