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Old 01.05.2019, 21:51
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Baking bread (say my name)

Hello it’s my third post!

I’ve always been a hobby Baker lucky enough to understand two to three Asian languages, English and German to learn from YouTube videos and blogs of how to bake... I catered some small private parties for fun, somehow my energy leads to an opportunity of being able to take over a baking business in the carribeans in the future which the owner wishes to introduce European baking to the locals... urdinkel bread,rye bread etc...

I would love to learn baking for real, I won’t have time to take a 3 years Ausbildung so I wonder if any of you would have some insights on where in Switzerland/Germany/France/Austria can one take a semi-professional baking course for a few months up to a year, to get an idea of professional bread baking? (Not a leisure-ish type of course in that case)

Give me a slap in the face if this sounds unrealistic:
And thank you in advance!
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Old 02.05.2019, 08:07
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

Sounds a reasonable request.

I'll ask my wife (who is a chef) if she knows of anything.
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Old 02.05.2019, 10:05
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

Going by the stories one of my friends tells, I get the impression that bakeries around here are very machine-heavy. So if you need training for some low-tech environment (wood oven and dough made by hand, for example), doing some "apprenticeship" in a modern bakery may be quite different from what you actuallly need.

What infrastructure and types of equipment do you need to preparare for?
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Old 02.05.2019, 11:16
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

Tbh, this idea intrigues me as well - but definitely not modern ovens/baking but wood fire or clay oven
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Old 02.05.2019, 11:59
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

Excellent thread! I was also looking into something like this sometime ago and what I discovered was:
1. Modern bakeries are not really what you're looking for. There is some manual work involved, but they focus much on on automated process with human intervention mainly in machine operation rather than baking in the sense of the word you use
2. The plethora of sourdough courses are much more the thing you're looking for as they are geared towards artisanal, manual process, however, I have the impression you're looking for something beyond that
3. My search ended with these guys:
https://www.cordonbleu.edu
I think they are rigorous enough, geared towards professional or very advanced homebakers (although they also have entry-level courses)
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Old 02.05.2019, 15:20
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

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Going by the stories one of my friends tells, I get the impression that bakeries around here are very machine-heavy. So if you need training for some low-tech environment (wood oven and dough made by hand, for example), doing some "apprenticeship" in a modern bakery may be quite different from what you actuallly need.

What infrastructure and types of equipment do you need to preparare for?
I assume that I have to prepare for standard bakery machines, not low-tech, as the bakery also supply to nearby hotels and supermarkets. They used to do american breads with white flour, toasts kind of stuff, and they wish to introduce european bread.
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Old 02.05.2019, 15:24
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

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Excellent thread! I was also looking into something like this sometime ago and what I discovered was:
1. Modern bakeries are not really what you're looking for. There is some manual work involved, but they focus much on on automated process with human intervention mainly in machine operation rather than baking in the sense of the word you use
2. The plethora of sourdough courses are much more the thing you're looking for as they are geared towards artisanal, manual process, however, I have the impression you're looking for something beyond that
3. My search ended with these guys:
https://www.cordonbleu.edu
I think they are rigorous enough, geared towards professional or very advanced homebakers (although they also have entry-level courses)
Thanks for the link however I don't speak french and it seems B1 level is required in their courses...

I love artisanal, manual baking, however it is a modern machinery bakery, they just wish to introduce more "exotic" breads...
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Old 02.05.2019, 15:32
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

Does anyone know - Did Jack at Laughing Lemon do this kind of course? If not, would he know someone who does? Just a thought.
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Old 02.05.2019, 18:26
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

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Thanks for the link however I don't speak french and it seems B1 level is required in their courses...

I love artisanal, manual baking, however it is a modern machinery bakery, they just wish to introduce more "exotic" breads...
OH but in LONDON! I'm drooling a bit now!
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Old 02.05.2019, 22:00
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

There is a long tradition of baking bread within the farmers community in Switzerland and especially the farmer's spouses.
If you go to your local farmer's market I'm sure you'll find a farmer who has bread on offer as well.


Why not ask if you can assist (and help) when they bake bread?


Good luck
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Old 03.05.2019, 05:54
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

Just a thought... But what about "John the Baker"? I think he has the best sourdough bread in Zurich hands down. He has an outlet by Stadelhofen Zurich and in other locales.

Just checked his website, and I am surprised that he does not offer a breadmaking course; think he should offer one and expand his business/platform. That said, maybe it is a house recipe and he is not keen to let others in on the secret.
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Old 03.05.2019, 08:15
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

https://schweizerbrot.ch/agenda/kurse/

https://www.richemont.online/bildung...baeckerei.html

2 week course in Germany, in English:
https://www.akademie-weinheim.de/diploma-course/

also
https://www.akademie-weinheim.de/baeckermeisterschule/
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Old 03.05.2019, 15:10
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

Thanks for the links!
I also looked into Weinheim, seems awesome! Two weeks seems short though, but I like that it's a diploma
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Old 03.05.2019, 15:13
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

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Just a thought... But what about "John the Baker"? I think he has the best sourdough bread in Zurich hands down. He has an outlet by Stadelhofen Zurich and in other locales.

Just checked his website, and I am surprised that he does not offer a breadmaking course; think he should offer one and expand his business/platform. That said, maybe it is a house recipe and he is not keen to let others in on the secret.
MMMMMMMM I want their cheese cake recipe they have the best in town.
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Old 03.05.2019, 16:46
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

Its a pity that almost all traditional bakery shops have disappeared in Zürich
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Old 04.05.2019, 12:27
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

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1. Modern bakeries are not really what you're looking for. There is some manual work involved, but they focus much on on automated process with human intervention mainly in machine operation rather than baking in the sense of the word you use
I dare to differ! Kid#3 finished the 3 year voc. training as baker-confectioner (third best of all) just last August . Although there is some machinery, a normal (not industrial sized) baker-confectioner does LOTS by hand!! More often than not just the first mixing of teh bread dough is done by a giant sized machine, after proving is where lots of manual work starts!

As for the OP, apart from Open University courses/ Migros or Coop Klubschule and the like as well as privately run culinary schools offering courses about bread baking, you could.....if this would be an option make the shortened voc. training of EBA (Eidgenössisches Berufsattest)..but then that would mean work for 2 years in a bakery including the unsocial hours of work.
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Old 04.05.2019, 12:45
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

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I dare to differ! Kid#3 finished the 3 year voc. training as baker-confectioner (third best of all) just last August . Although there is some machinery, a normal (not industrial sized) baker-confectioner does LOTS by hand!! More often than not just the first mixing of teh bread dough is done by a giant sized machine, after proving is where lots of manual work starts!

As for the OP, apart from Open University courses/ Migros or Coop Klubschule and the like as well as privately run culinary schools offering courses about bread baking, you could.....if this would be an option make the shortened voc. training of EBA (Eidgenössisches Berufsattest)..but then that would mean work for 2 years in a bakery including the unsocial hours of work.
Oh yes, that is also how I imagine how it's going to be like, dough made by machine and shaping/braiding/assembling done by hand...

Did a quick search about EBA, isn't it just for Jugendliche? Two years is kind of long though, I would prefer private school courses...
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Old 04.05.2019, 12:55
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

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Did a quick search about EBA, isn't it just for Jugendliche? Two years is kind of long though, I would prefer private school courses...

Nope, if oyu find an employer willing to train you, you can start the training even at 50 years old.

My 2 elder kids are both trained chefs (Koch EFZ) and both had 'elderly members' as collegues in class. At Daughter 1's class (from 2006-2009) it was two ladies of 42 resp, 46 years and in Daughter2's class (2012-2015) it was a 49yr old man who retrained as a chef.

So if you really really want it, you can do it!!
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Old 04.05.2019, 22:31
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

This company (their primary business are wood-burning and electric stone ovens) also does one-day courses:

https://www.backdorf.de/Backdorf/Bac...-und-Seminare/

I somehow always find myself wishing to have a house just to be able to buy one of their ovens....
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Old 06.05.2019, 13:37
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Re: Baking bread (say my name)

Willy Wonka. (In reply to second part of thread name)
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