Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Education  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24.06.2019, 18:08
Miu Miu is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: US
Posts: 35
Groaned at 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Miu has annoyed a few people around hereMiu has annoyed a few people around hereMiu has annoyed a few people around here
Elementary level 4 or 5

Hello,

We are moving to Vaud, Lausanne area.
My son (born June 2011) should attend 5P.
The school closest to our place (walking distance) is
Collège des Pâquis - https://www.ecoles-chavssu.ch/batime...-4-batiment-1/).
Unfortunately, they are full at 5P but have space at 4P. They recommend we register him for 4P as he has to also learn German on top of French (which he does not speak either) in 5P.

If we chose to send him to 5P, he has to attend a school in Chavannes-Renens (La Planta - https://www.ecoles-chavssu.ch/batime...-1-batiment-1/) and take a bus to get there.

Q1. What is your advice? Would you recommend sending him to 4P or 5P? He is fluent in Italian, cannot he take Italian instead of German in 5P?

Q2. Is it possible to jump a grade later and catch up with his proper year?

thank you for your advice!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 24.06.2019, 18:17
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 687
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 836 Times in 438 Posts
irish_temptation has a reputation beyond reputeirish_temptation has a reputation beyond reputeirish_temptation has a reputation beyond reputeirish_temptation has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

Take the lower grade. It will give him time to adjust for everything...no, Italian is not an option at that age. It might be later on. Not sure about Vaud but in Zurich streaming happens at the end of grade 6. So any additional time he has to catch up on everything done differently before that, the better. Don' worry too nuch now about later. The beginning will be hard enough for him! Make it as easy as possible.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank irish_temptation for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 24.06.2019, 18:20
MusicChick's Avatar
modified and reprogrammed
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 12,877
Groaned at 184 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 15,216 Times in 7,703 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

In VD it is 8P.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 24.06.2019, 18:32
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: la cote
Posts: 3,032
Groaned at 18 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 2,477 Times in 1,360 Posts
runningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

Only you can make the decision but here are a few things to keep in mind.

-transport by public bus is generally not a big issue here unless he has to traverse a particularly dangerous route. Kids are expected to be independent and walk or take buses to school from age 4.
-keep on mind he will have to to be perfectly fluent in French and very good German by age 12 for the streaming if higher education is sought. Streaming at age 12 determines this and high scores for French, German and maths are imperative.
-if he struggles later on because of languages they will probably automatically suggest repeating a year.
-boys tend to be a bit less mature at that age. May want to take into account his maturity.
-30 June, or is it 31 July, I think now is cut off for dates so will be at the youngest end of the class
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank runningdeer for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 24.06.2019, 18:56
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich to the other...
Posts: 5,794
Groaned at 33 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 5,438 Times in 2,594 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

For sure put him in 4P. He doesn't know the language and unless he's really big for his age, he's always going to be little. If he's coming from another school system, he is not going to 'repeat' much - and even if it is familiar content, it's in another language...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 24.06.2019, 20:04
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,795
Groaned at 31 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 6,426 Times in 2,674 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

Also bear in mind that in Switzerland there seems to be little to no stigma to repeating a year, unlike in some other countries. Immigrating and learning a new language are considered perfectly reasonable grounds to take that extra year.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 24.06.2019, 21:51
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: near Langenthal, BE
Posts: 821
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 861 Times in 379 Posts
swisscanmom is considered knowledgeableswisscanmom is considered knowledgeableswisscanmom is considered knowledgeable
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

We actually asked for our kids to repeat a year when we came. Best decision we made. In that first year they could not really follow anything, but could concentrate on learning the language. Down the road, being a little more mature when choosing paths for further schooling will only help. Put him in 4P.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24.06.2019, 21:57
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,214
Groaned at 23 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 850 Times in 512 Posts
Meerkat33 is considered knowledgeableMeerkat33 is considered knowledgeableMeerkat33 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

Don't worry, it's normal to be 1 year "behind" in CH. Most swiss guys will waste one year at 18-years-old doing the military so he can catch up there. Also having to take the bus while his schoolmates hang out at school/village could actually worsen long-term outcomes due to lower integration (OK maybe it's overkill but you get the gist). Another plus is better language skills, possibly much better in the case of French.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 25.06.2019, 00:09
Miu Miu is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: US
Posts: 35
Groaned at 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Miu has annoyed a few people around hereMiu has annoyed a few people around hereMiu has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

Thank you for your excellent advice. Very kind of you all.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Miu for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 02.07.2019, 07:22
Miu Miu is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: US
Posts: 35
Groaned at 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Miu has annoyed a few people around hereMiu has annoyed a few people around hereMiu has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

Dear forum friends,

A spot for 5P ended up opening in Collège des Pâquis.
This allows my son to attend school lunches (open to 5P and older). Alas only Thursday and Friday have available spots for now. We also managed to get him into a bit of aftercare till 4:30 PM three days a week (Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday).

So now I am looking for someone to help outside those times, that is:

Lunch: Monday and Tuesday
Lunch and Afternoon care on Wednesdays
After school care on Fridays

He would need intense French tutoring so hopefully a French speaking help would achieve both managing the gaps as well as helping with the language.

If you happen to know anyone around St. Sulpice who might be interested, please let me know. Thank you!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02.07.2019, 23:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,795
Groaned at 31 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 6,426 Times in 2,674 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

Have you asked at the school about how other parents manage this? Sometimes several parents get together and swap lunch- and after-school care duties. Some schools have names of the contact persons who help organise such exchanges.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 12.07.2019, 12:41
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Heidelberg
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Lopa has no particular reputation at present
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

Dear Miu, thank you for your post, I found it very helpful and informative as we are also moving to the area soon and need to decide on the right level for our kids.

My daughter is born Nov 2008 and is fluent in German but speaks no French. She is finishing up first year Gymnasium in Germany (grade 5 - the separation here is done 2 years earlier than in Switzerland), and I'd really like her to end up in the higher education stream here too.
My question is, how realistic is it for a kid this age to pick up enough French to qualify ? Many thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12.07.2019, 13:10
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 26,567
Groaned at 1,642 Times in 1,262 Posts
Thanked 30,784 Times in 14,707 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

Quote:
View Post
My question is, how realistic is it for a kid this age to pick up enough French to qualify ? Many thanks!
I spent a year in France when I was 15/16, starting with no French and ending up at the level of an average 13 year old (though was top of my class in three subjects), so I would figure at least two in a French-only environment (I lived in a French family who made me do dictation nightly, both parents teachers, and who spoke no English).

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 12.07.2019, 13:39
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,795
Groaned at 31 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 6,426 Times in 2,674 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

Yes, Tom is not the only one. It is realistic if - and that's the big if - both the parents and the child(ren) embrace the opportunity to be in another language environment.

During the "soon", i.e. between now and when school starts, your daughter and you should be learning French, every single day (with one clear day off per week), in chunks. Online, in a course at a school, with a personal tutor, in frequently meeting mother-tongue French-speakers and... alone, with any method(s) you know to work for each of you (whether that's flash-cards, or an app, jotting down notes, etc.).

Even for those of mother-tongue, being in the academic stream of school here in Switzerland demands this kind of pro-active, self-motivation and discipline, both by the child and with support from parents. If your child has those qualities, and if you will be with her along the way, to support her, then YES, she can learn enough French to catch up. However, you would do her a favour if you get the basics in over the summer… so that you and she will be able to demonstrate to the SCHOOL - against some scepticism - that she is striding ahead in leaps and bounds, and can put in the effort.

I once heard of someone who kept all the written jotters of the exercises, and who made weekly tape-recordings of their child's language progress. What tipped the balance, to allow that child to get into the academic stream, was not the actual level of language when he started, but the evidence of his ability to progress significantly over a relatively short period of time.

Good luck, and well done for looking out for your daughter's best interests!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12.07.2019, 14:43
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 7,306
Groaned at 807 Times in 546 Posts
Thanked 8,970 Times in 4,247 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

Don't ever confuse your abilities to learn a language with those of your child.


Children are loke sponges, they will pick up a language very quickly.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Today only for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 12.07.2019, 16:21
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: la cote
Posts: 3,032
Groaned at 18 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 2,477 Times in 1,360 Posts
runningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

Quote:
View Post
Dear Miu, thank you for your post, I found it very helpful and informative as we are also moving to the area soon and need to decide on the right level for our kids.

My daughter is born Nov 2008 and is fluent in German but speaks no French. She is finishing up first year Gymnasium in Germany (grade 5 - the separation here is done 2 years earlier than in Switzerland), and I'd really like her to end up in the higher education stream here too.
My question is, how realistic is it for a kid this age to pick up enough French to qualify ? Many thanks!

If I got her age right, she probably has one year at most, maybe less to pass the screening for the gymnase stream here. I think for even the most brillant, that is asking an awful lot. The school will probably almost certainly suggest repeating a year in my view, so best to be prepared for that. German will work to her favour in the screeing but she needs to get up to top caliber in French asap to have a chance.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank runningdeer for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 12.07.2019, 17:16
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,795
Groaned at 31 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 6,426 Times in 2,674 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

Oh, yes, good point, runningdeer.

If the girl is offered the chance to repeat a year, grab it!

Unlike in some other countries, this carries no stigma here in Switzerland. We are used to all the questions about language, and it is considered a completely normal thing for a child moving into another language to repeat a year.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12.07.2019, 20:44
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Zürich
Posts: 209
Groaned at 16 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 168 Times in 83 Posts
Rjellsch is considered knowledgeableRjellsch is considered knowledgeableRjellsch is considered knowledgeable
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

Am I misunderstanding? OP originally asked for placement advice. 4p or 5p. I think it was a unanimous recommendation for 4p with detailed explanation. OP chooses 5p anyway. This could seemingly have long term repercussions if it doesn’t work out.

Can the child just repeat 5p if he has problems. How many times can a person repeat a level? Can a person keep repeating until their scores and knowledge are enough to end up in the higher education stream?

I have an almost two year old and am curious about such things.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12.07.2019, 20:56
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: near Langenthal, BE
Posts: 821
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 861 Times in 379 Posts
swisscanmom is considered knowledgeableswisscanmom is considered knowledgeableswisscanmom is considered knowledgeable
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

It's not the same in every canton, but generally they can repeat twice. However, repetition is something that is carefully considered, and is usually only recommended if the child just needs a little more time, more maturity, is intelligent and likely to succeed. If the prognosis is that the child will keep struggling, then individual learning goals will be set instead of repeating.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12.07.2019, 21:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,795
Groaned at 31 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 6,426 Times in 2,674 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Elementary level 4 or 5

Quote:
View Post
Am I misunderstanding? OP originally asked for placement advice. 4p or 5p. I think it was a unanimous recommendation for 4p with detailed explanation. OP chooses 5p anyway.
That's part of the beauty of a forum, isn't it? One can collect a lot of opinions, and take on board the parts one likes, and just reject the rest and make one's own decision.

If, later, 5p seems to be a bad choice, OP can come back and ask for more advice. Some people will then be nasty and say "told you so" (entirely unnecessarily) and others will set about really reading what she is then saying, and give a new batch of advice. For her to take or leave.

We don't know OP, after all, and only she knows her own child. Our advice may have been far off the mark, given her child's personality and interests and motivation, etc. The child might thrive in 5p, for reasons beyond what the parent wrote here, and which we cannot know.

EDIT: Either way, if OP later comes back to share her experiences, good and bad, and solutions, then she will be contributing to the next round of people learning.

Last edited by doropfiz; 15.07.2019 at 18:49.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Resources to test my French or German level (A,B,C) Abruch Language corner 1 30.09.2018 16:24
CFA level 3 study group? ZH or Lugano papapapa Education 1 09.09.2016 15:12
Sunrise: either low-level developers OR simply cheating ACBaldrick TV/internet/telephone 7 20.07.2012 09:31
Non-EU work permit (L or B) and level of education? richardm Permits/visas/government 3 05.06.2009 09:24
[Geneva] Schools [A-level or equivalent]? Genhart Family matters/health 6 27.08.2007 23:10


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0