Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Education  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05.08.2019, 22:35
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Basel
Posts: 85
Groaned at 12 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 17 Times in 10 Posts
kamiyu has annoyed a few people around herekamiyu has annoyed a few people around herekamiyu has annoyed a few people around here
About PhD status in Switzerland

In Switzerland, is PhD study considered as "education" or "employment"?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06.08.2019, 10:42
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Rome->London->Basel
Posts: 89
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 107 Times in 40 Posts
MPiolo is considered knowledgeableMPiolo is considered knowledgeableMPiolo is considered knowledgeable
Re: About PhD status in Switzerland

PhD is a University Degree, issued by universities, so I am not entirely sure how can that be qualified as employment.

You can argue that you might be performing some "job-related" activities as part of your PhD journey, but I would still go with it being "Education".
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06.08.2019, 10:43
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 20
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 13 Posts
jonnahtan has earned some respectjonnahtan has earned some respect
Re: About PhD status in Switzerland

From what I know, it is considered as "education". What happens is that usually the lab where you're doing the PhD hires you as a research assistant, or something like that. But it can happen that you have an external scholarship, and you will not be employed by the lab.

If you're employed by the lab, the conditions of the hiring depend a lot on the University. In some cases you could be hired part time, and the rest of the time you're supposed to be doing your own research. In other cases you're hired full time. The residence permit you get is one for training with employment allowed in the same place where you do your training. You'll be paying taxes and insurances (unemployment, pension, etc.). I guess you do not need to pay taxes if you're not hired but receiving a scholarship or living on your own money.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06.08.2019, 10:57
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,533
Groaned at 81 Times in 72 Posts
Thanked 16,002 Times in 7,092 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: About PhD status in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
In Switzerland, is PhD study considered as "education" or "employment"?
From permit and visa point of view PhD and even PostDoc positions are considered mainly as education with limited employment possibility.

See also the relevant SEM guidelines (not available in English)
https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/de/home...erbereich.html
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06.08.2019, 11:32
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 2,798
Groaned at 220 Times in 149 Posts
Thanked 4,940 Times in 1,913 Posts
porsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: About PhD status in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
From permit and visa point of view PhD and even PostDoc positions are considered mainly as education with limited employment possibility.

See also the relevant SEM guidelines (not available in English)
https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/de/home...erbereich.html
Really? When I came to Switzerland to do my PhD I was on a regular EU B permit which was upgraded automatically after 5 years to a C Permit.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06.08.2019, 11:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 2,798
Groaned at 220 Times in 149 Posts
Thanked 4,940 Times in 1,913 Posts
porsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: About PhD status in Switzerland

Doing a PhD in Switzerland is thought of a bit differently compared to the UK OP. Here you are, usually, employed by the university on a pretty good salary and have to pay taxes and social contributions. In the UK you get a stipend that is tax free.

You can also of course do a self-funded PhD
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06.08.2019, 11:54
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,062
Groaned at 98 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 6,572 Times in 2,508 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: About PhD status in Switzerland

Education
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 21.08.2019, 16:58
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
APratiwi has no particular reputation at present
Re: About PhD status in Switzerland

I am doing a PhD in Geneva. I am a student and an employee at the same time. I "work" as a research assistant. I have a working contract with a salary and I have a student card that gives me student discounts. I hold Permit B saying "Formation avec activité".
I don't know if other PhDs are of the same scheme, though.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 21.08.2019, 17:39
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Basel
Posts: 85
Groaned at 12 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 17 Times in 10 Posts
kamiyu has annoyed a few people around herekamiyu has annoyed a few people around herekamiyu has annoyed a few people around here
Re: About PhD status in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I am doing a PhD in Geneva. I am a student and an employee at the same time. I "work" as a research assistant. I have a working contract with a salary and I have a student card that gives me student discounts. I hold Permit B saying "Formation avec activité".
I don't know if other PhDs are of the same scheme, though.
Yeah, this is exactly what I learnt. I asked this because I wonder if the Swiss Work Permit authority considers PhD education as working experience too. I somewhat heard that they do consider PhD years as employment.

If so, then I have 6 years of working history.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 21.08.2019, 18:51
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Geneva/Lausanne
Posts: 219
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 55 Posts
klausenhauser is considered knowledgeableklausenhauser is considered knowledgeableklausenhauser is considered knowledgeable
Re: About PhD status in Switzerland

If you are EU and not subject to quotas you will get a normal working B permit but in terms of the initial question people treat you as you are in training/ formation


Because this is training, this affects the permis of non EU persons. You’ll have a line that says you are formation avec activité. However your years on this B do not count towards anything until you get a “normal” B
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank klausenhauser for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 21.08.2019, 18:52
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Geneva/Lausanne
Posts: 219
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 55 Posts
klausenhauser is considered knowledgeableklausenhauser is considered knowledgeableklausenhauser is considered knowledgeable
Re: About PhD status in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, this is exactly what I learnt. I asked this because I wonder if the Swiss Work Permit authority considers PhD education as working experience too. I somewhat heard that they do consider PhD years as employment.

If so, then I have 6 years of working history.
What is the Swiss work permit authority? You mean in using those years for a permis C? The years on a B that says formation do not count until you get a normal permis B for at least two years thereafter.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 21.08.2019, 20:42
ailedroc's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 57
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 24 Times in 13 Posts
ailedroc has no particular reputation at present
Re: About PhD status in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
In Switzerland, is PhD study considered as "education" or "employment"?
Education - as are post-doctoral positions. I (and other non-EU PhD/post-doc colleagues) was told that none of my years employed at the university counted towards the years required for the C permit.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ailedroc for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 21.08.2019, 20:53
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 27,172
Groaned at 1,708 Times in 1,304 Posts
Thanked 31,523 Times in 15,074 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: About PhD status in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
What is the Swiss work permit authority?
There is no such thing.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 22.08.2019, 08:20
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Geneva/Lausanne
Posts: 219
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 55 Posts
klausenhauser is considered knowledgeableklausenhauser is considered knowledgeableklausenhauser is considered knowledgeable
Re: About PhD status in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
There is no such thing.

Tom
Exactly... I’ve never heard of it before the post before mine
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 22.08.2019, 08:31
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Geneva/Lausanne
Posts: 219
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 55 Posts
klausenhauser is considered knowledgeableklausenhauser is considered knowledgeableklausenhauser is considered knowledgeable
Re: About PhD status in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Education - as are post-doctoral positions. I (and other non-EU PhD/post-doc colleagues) was told that none of my years employed at the university counted towards the years required for the C permit.
They are counted if after your studies you hold a “normal” permis B for two years thereafter. Ie. get a job on a on student permis for two years.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...ngen-aug-f.pdf

See Section 3.5.2.1
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
phd




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PhD student status Heather R Insurance 4 03.10.2017 21:00
Polish person's status in Switzerland? cec16aub Permits/visas/government 19 11.10.2012 12:27
about residence status after divorce EricXing Permits/visas/government 2 08.07.2012 14:18
Have to decide about a Phd position in Bern... janarthv Finance/banking/taxation 12 26.06.2012 19:47
Legal status of subrenting in Switzerland Jagermeister Housing in general 10 27.05.2011 00:48


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0