Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Education  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01.12.2019, 20:09
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 11,969
Groaned at 182 Times in 159 Posts
Thanked 17,205 Times in 6,995 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Maths at the FHNW

That's the Fachhochschule NW Schweiz.

So, my daughter recently took a 10 minute multiple choice "exam" in maths, part of her BSc course, with five questions, on differentiation. If you choose the wrong answer, you get -1. Question were like this:

Give the derivative of cos(x).e(to the power of 2x)+x(to the power 5).
Four answers given, one is correct.

The correct answer requires application of the chain, product and addition rules of differentiation. This counts for 20% of the marks for the semester.

Since maths is about the process, not the answer (although the correct answer is nice). Multiple choice tests for maths is silly and in no way measures mathematical ability.

(Incidentally, my son had a multiple choice physics question during his degree. He and other students score marks in the minuses. They complained, and the whole concept of multiple choice at that level was removed).
__________________
<- 2 5m ->
I'm English. 2m is waaaaaay too close.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 01.12.2019, 20:31
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 3,908
Groaned at 141 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 6,013 Times in 2,770 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Maths at the FHNW

Quote:
View Post
Since maths is about the process, not the answer (although the correct answer is nice). Multiple choice tests for maths is silly and in no way measures mathematical ability.
It would seem that the college does not agree with you. My son lost 10% of the marks in college exam, because he failed to style a header that was used in his web design that he was not using, missing out on perfect 100% score... that is life.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01.12.2019, 20:36
venetian's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Zuerich
Posts: 294
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 292 Times in 141 Posts
venetian has earned the respect of manyvenetian has earned the respect of manyvenetian has earned the respect of many
Re: Maths at the FHNW

I agree with the OP.

One might argue that one must actually have Math knowledge to get the right answers, and the weights can be organized so that random choices lead to an awful score... therefore somehow these tests satisfy their basic goal.

However, what if you do the math and make a single mistake over a few steps? Of course you'll get the wrong result, but 95% of your math will be correct, and the teacher might even be able to discuss the mistake.
Therefore, given the same problem, the same student and the same mistakes, a multiple choice test will yield lower marks and less learning feedbacks.

Multiple choice tests have the advantages of being unambiguous, very quick to correct, suitable for standardization and automation. I guess that's why they are of widespread use in some countries.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank venetian for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 01.12.2019, 21:26
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 13,493
Groaned at 269 Times in 175 Posts
Thanked 16,323 Times in 6,940 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Maths at the FHNW

with 4 answers probably easier to eliminate the 3 wrong ones quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01.12.2019, 22:57
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Maths at the FHNW

Depends on how the answers are structured.

If the possible answers are designed carefully, you can see whether or not exam takers are solving the problem correctly.

Of course, the problem with multiple choice tests is that there‘s no partial credit, and arithmetic errors can get in the way of proper mathematical procedure.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 01.12.2019, 23:03
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich
Posts: 511
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 441 Times in 248 Posts
ThomasSSS has a reputation beyond reputeThomasSSS has a reputation beyond reputeThomasSSS has a reputation beyond reputeThomasSSS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Maths at the FHNW

Quote:
Waking up in a cold sweat, the musician realizes, gratefully, that it was all just a crazy dream. “Of course!” he reassures himself, “No society would ever reduce such a beautiful and meaningful art form to something so mindless and trivial; no culture could be so cruel to its children as to deprive them of such a natural, satisfying means of human expression. How absurd!”
Paul Lockhart, A Mathematician's Lament.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank ThomasSSS for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 02.12.2019, 16:23
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 11,366
Groaned at 86 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 17,268 Times in 7,684 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Maths at the FHNW

Quote:
View Post
Give the derivative of cos(x).e(to the power of 2x)+x(to the power 5).
Four answers given, one is correct.

The correct answer requires application of the chain, product and addition rules of differentiation. This counts for 20% of the marks for the semester.
This single question counts 20% to the total

If I am not totally out of touch the answer should be something to the like of -sin(x)·e^2x+cos(x)·e^2x·2+5x^4 considering d/dx was asked. But maybe the whole test was one nasty trick question and the d/dy was asked (answer 0).
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 04.12.2019, 12:48
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 11,969
Groaned at 182 Times in 159 Posts
Thanked 17,205 Times in 6,995 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Maths at the FHNW

Update:

It seems that either alternate answers carried some marks, or the examiner checked the working. Unfortunately, my daughter can't recall whether the rubric said "show your working", or anything else about the marking scheme.

Still, multiple choice for maths is just wrong!
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 04.12.2019, 13:15
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 14,524
Groaned at 457 Times in 363 Posts
Thanked 20,254 Times in 8,399 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Maths at the FHNW

Quote:
Depends on how the answers are structured.

If the possible answers are designed carefully, you can see whether or not exam takers are solving the problem correctly.

.
Possibly, in a simplified way like those internet maths multiple choice questions where half the people get the same answer - but an incorrect one as they didn't follow the correct order of operations.

I told my eight and ten year olds that there would be trouble if they didn't show their working.

Even for the eight-year old, he finally understood my point when working on those "logicals" (Anne has ten apples, Billy has three eggs and twice as many apples as Sarah...... What was the name of the dog?.....), he discovered it was so much easier to work out by drawing up a table and include the information that he did know.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 04.12.2019, 13:32
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 14,589
Groaned at 262 Times in 192 Posts
Thanked 16,881 Times in 8,724 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Maths at the FHNW

Quote:
View Post
Update:

It seems that either alternate answers carried some marks, or the examiner checked the working. Unfortunately, my daughter can't recall whether the rubric said "show your working", or anything else about the marking scheme.

Still, multiple choice for maths is just wrong!
It gets chosen when there is a risk of students being either better than a teacher or when they can come up with many correct answers. I dislike them, they are not good for any assessment.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FHNW Msc Life Sciences Interview filswiss Education 18 29.05.2020 19:38
MSc BIS program at FHNW WiseSapiens Education 0 25.11.2019 08:59
FHNW in Olten/Basel Eira Education 31 27.10.2019 12:12
Studying BIS at FHNW in February ssaak86 Education 2 30.09.2019 21:36
Anyone doing the admission exams at the FHNW this april? catalina Education 3 02.04.2014 12:01


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0