Yeah, tough love eh? I know of so many teenagers who came right regardless of whether they were pampered or not.

Taking this point by point - and my son who is in 3rd class of "Langgymi" had a few remarks.

How much studying is your son actually doing? Like hours per day? And what kinds of marks is he getting? If he really is doing many hours per day and only turning in low marks then is Gymi really the place for your son at all? My son says most of his peers leave the studying until closer to the test, so they are not spending entire holidays studying. And they mostly keep their heads above water.

In Kurzgymi the students pick a profile - it sounds like your son chose "Altsprachliches" if classics are in the mix. There is a "Mathematisch-Naturwissenschaftliches" profile he could have chosen. Even that will have some modern languages - usually French and one other.

The different profiles are listed here - https://www.zh.ch/de/bildung/schulen...gymnasium.html

My son's Gymi has sports facilities that the students can use, plus things like a theatre group, a choir etc. I just wonder which school your son attends. Surely your son can come up with a study schedule that includes time for hobbies etc. My son regularly plays basketball with friends, has gym membership that we pay for and also goes regularly indoor climbing.

No experience to offer, but surely a science A-level is going to have practical elements - in many cases with a practical exam in a lab and you have to know what you are doing. Just wonder how that will work with home-only study.

And even if you go on to Uni to do your chosen degree course, even that will have elements you don't find interesting. For example I did Computer Science and within that hated Numerical Analysis with a vengeance, but it was a compulsory subject and we had to pass it.

If your son is truly not happy at Gymi then sure, seek alternatives and the others on this thread have given useful suggestions.

Cheers,
Nick

__________________

Another point to consider. Just make sure that your son can stay with you in Switzerland if you are not Swiss. Should not be a problem as long as he is a minor but just make sure you dont create a problem in that regard. Not sure if homeschooling count. Jusr check before you decide.

Its great that you're exploring alternative options, but don't forget the big picture:
A teenager that prefers hobbies to studies, doesn't like the teaching method and can't see the point of Greek mythology is completely ops normal.

They want bongs, memes and porn not Adonis playing the kithara to Aphrodite

I thought it was a joke.

If it was my child this wouldn't even be open for discussion - you go to school end of it. There are a lot of things worse than Greek mythology and Roman history.

From the Swiss University website this looks like it is only an option for people which got their education in the UK. This becomes even more evident when you read the requirements for ETHZ and EPFL. Even more, those two STEM universities require a Tripple-A!

Having grown up in socialism, this is what I think to. You either go to school or get an apprenticeship if you don't want to go to school, end of.
A lot of things I wasn't so interested in at the time turned out to have given me pretty good general knowledge. That's what Gymi is for, after all.

There was a poster at our local elementary school that comes to mind:

Before you speak, THINK.

Is it TRUE?
Is it HELPFUL?
Is it INTERESTING?
Is it NECESSARY?
Is it KIND?

Not necessarily.

Studying topics you don't like is not that different to lifting weighs on the gym before a fight, or running to develop cardio before a 10K race. It's training and discovering capabilities you didn't know you had before. In more formal terms is "discovering and improving your cognitive abilities". Criticizing studying for the sake of studying is like calling someone on the gym and idiot for doing squats and not using that energy to do farm work.

Sorry, I misinterpreted your previous post. Agree totally with this one. As a parent it is difficult as one is so invested in the situation and it is difficult to draw the line between being tough enough and being too tough.
Many of the kids at Kurzzeit Gymi were there because they wanted to postpone making a decision.
Some of them went on to study for a degree.
Some of them started an apprenticeship.
One of my ex-students is a weather presenter with SRF. How cool is that.
Having done the Matura will have only benefited them all.

Ha, it wasn't me. It was jim2007.

I'm just highlighting the cognitive capabilities people with a "useless degree" have

[Tangent] I definitely didn't get a 'useless' degree or a 'useless' PhD (both STEM). And while my technical knowledge has been important for my career, I have also leaned heavily on the liberal arts portion of my education, often in ways that I could not have predicted when I was in high school or even university. Some of that has been because I have lived abroad (being able to know and explain the finer points of English grammar), for instance. But most is pretty universal; many adults don't directly use their degrees professionally.

Although my individual career is the backdrop, the fundamental skills of: being able to listen to/read the story of what's going on and understand the problem(s) (listening/reading comprehension), critically assess information (critical thinking), relate all the information together (information synthesis), think logically about potential solutions or partial solutions (logical thinking/problem solving), and then written and oral communication with others (writing and presentation skills), to other technical experts and mostly the general public/management (knowing your audience).

Notice that these are all skills, rather than outright knowledge. My own opinion is that these are the fundamentals of basic education in schools. While it is important that kids learn some factual knowledge, my thesis here is that the best performers in life will learn these skills and how to apply them within various subject contexts in school. They can then transition to an adulthood where they can still learn whatever additional knowledge or skills they need to know in their specific life (at or outside of the world of work) by applying these basics. And they will be able to adapt to the as-yet unknown world of adulthood in the future. [/Tangent]

Back to the OP, I'm not sure the specific course curriculum matters as much as you think with regards to setting your son up for a good education. Every kid will have his or her own route through life and it is good that you are already allowing your son some agency to determine his own life (with parental guidance). From what more knowledgable others have said it sounds like a Matura (maybe after changing tracks) might be the best route towards his career interests, though it might be worth exploring what internships would be possibilities as well. But make it clear to yourselves that no matter which path you choose, 1. the direction isn't permanent and can be altered later; 2. everything up to this point in time is still learning which may become relevant even if only indirectly and 3. 3-4 years is a short amount of time to put up with something 'less than perfection', rather than an eternity. Being young, your son can change his path relatively easily and he has a long period of time in which to adapt.

Maybe have a look at Hulls school. They do A levels. One of the advantages of schools at this age is the socializing and, give and take if academic life and group work. Which they will also need to do at university.
Homeschooling (which I love) unfortunately does not really give that in the same way - especially in Canton Zürich - where there are few homeschooling families.

I'm glad someone has mentioned the Hulls school, I have totally forgotten about it. It looks like it could be what OP's child needs, as homeschooling in canton ZH is not something very common and doesn't have the "infrastructure" and the support it has in other countries.... We have had many discussions on this topic before and I -basically- said the same thing every time. But each to their own, really. Do as you think it's best for you. I'm just curious how you'll handle a teenager all day long at home.
OP, if you choose this path please do come back and report as it could be useful for other people who're favouring homeschooling.

I just read this comment and am torn between wanting to add my thoughts and staying quiet. i feel the comment diverges from the main topic of gymnasium versus other routes of education and strays into a different topic about parenting. but it makes me want to comment...so here goes.

it's very easy to say a child must go to school and thats the end of the discussion. in some situations it is much harder to make this happen.
obligatory schooling ends after 3 sek or 1 year kurz. so that can be 15.... it is not easy to make a 15 year old physically go to school.

yes there are many teenagers who dislike school (rebellion, bullying, dislike of academic work etc) and many who are too sick with psychological issues to go to school (anxiety, depression, exam pressure etc).

if you are a parent of a child in either of these categories you suddenly find that with or without discussion it can be a difficult situation that you cannot control 100%.

back to the topic... zurich gymaniums do not suit everybody and that is not a reflection of intellect, aptitude or attitude....more that some people are square pegs and some schools are round holes. its hard to bash a square peg into a round hole, on a daily basis!

good luck finding what works for your family.

I agree with this, too, if there are psychological problems. I know a few teens (in the US) who are school refusers and have academics for parents, so it's not for lack of family support. It's hard to say whether I just don't know of any such kids here, or whether they just drop out of the system and that's the reason I'm not aware of similar issues.

Hmmm, OP didn't mention the child has other issues apart from not liking the teaching style and some of the subjects taught there.

Sure, if the situation is much more complicated and the child simply refuses to go to School, I don't know what's the solution, but to me, as presented in the introductory post, it looked like a teenage rebellion. I was also torn between remaining quiet (I should have, bless me!) and writing what I am thinking about OP's problems with the school. My comment didn't diverge into anything else than this: SCHOOL.

I don't know why you assume my family needs your guidance. I was very careful to add "if it was my child" just to avoid these types of comments and people feeling obligated to defend their decisions and their views and eventually going down the rabbit hole that is an internet discussion.
One of my children is at (Lang)gymi and I'm painfully aware of the "good" and the "bad" of the Swiss system. Still, if she was to give up just because "see OP" that would be out of discussion.
If she can't deal with the multiple tasks that are part of a student's life in a school that SHE HAS CHOSEN (it didn't happen yet, nothing that we couldn't help her with, anyway) then we will find private tutors if it helps. If not, we will find another school. Private, if need be. But home schooling, I repeat, for my children and only them, is out of the question because I know them and know a lot of other kids in their circle and this can't function where we live. In my opinion, which is obviously different than yours because everyone knows their children better. You ask strangers you get different views. You don't have to follow any!!!

I didn't ask anyone's opinion about schooling (or parenting) here, ever, and I think you have assumed too many things without even knowing anything about my children or my parenting style, just based on a vague micro-comment here.
But yeah, thanks for your comment, I guess everyone has an opinion, isn't it.

Good luck to you too!!! (I have the feeling I may have touched a nerve here) and also to the OP, obviously.

I guess I am, theoretically, a "helicopter" parent too but I don't feel insulted by this word, it amuses me. I hope you'll feel better after my admission of guilt.....and btw, thinking you can have control over whatever situation at home, it is as optimistic as sending the child to school, however imperfect this solution may be for your child. Homeschooling doesn't necessarily solve more complicated issues, it might actually aggravate them.

I think this is very true...However, the Swiss gymnasium is not for every child, that's for sure. I won't get into the why's as the reasons may vary way too much and without knowing the whole story of a particular case it's hard to asses if this really is the case or the child isn't (efficiently) supported with the inherent hurdles he or she may encounter with his daily tasks. There's a "Probezeit" in the beginning of the first school year and they can know if this school suits them or not. If it happens in the first year of the "Langgymnasium" they simply go back to secondary school, no big drama here, in fact it's rather expected that a good percentage will not make it through the first grade in gymi. Also, there is no "stigma" attached to it. Very important to know.

If it happens in the first year of the "Kurzgymnasium" i.e. the 9th grade, I think they can go back to the secondary school to finish their 9th grade and can choose afterwards whether they want to try again to gymi (they have to pass another admission exam though, as far as I know) or to choose a "Lehre" or a trade school. There are ways to continue their studies for every child but they need support for each of it, I believe. Some more than others, perhaps. The schools also offer a lot of guidance and support.

It is very important to also teach them a bit of resilience. IMO, obvs.
Sometimes they have to study things they won't have any appetite for or simply put up with a very busy schedule, many tests (it's very hard, I know). Again, if there are some conditions that make all of these impossible to put in practice, then perhaps homeschooling or whatever the Swiss system has to offer could be taken into consideration. I am sure there are school psychologists, councillors etc who are way more qualified than many parents to help the children choose the right path for them.



It's a cruel way to put it but yeah. Don't forget the bigger picture.

On the other hand most kids I know (including mine) are committed to school even if they don't like everything that comes with it, perhaps it was easy for me to comment from this position. I guess I can only count myself lucky.