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Old 07.12.2010, 22:37
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Work in CH for non-EU...

The topic sounds really hopeless. Seems, I am really losing my hope.

My story is very usual.

I am Ukrainian girl, 23 years old. Being a student at the Uni (physics), I started working since 19, because of money lack. First I had a part-time job as operator of call-center, after 1 year work I was proposed to work as a supervisor of database department. At the Uni I had a very nice course of programming, uncluding DataBase, so I agreed to work 8 hours per day, although I still had to study. A lot of sleepless nights, but I was very happy with my work in CRM - Customer Relation Management - for different pharmaceutical companies in Kyiv, controlling work of regional managers, supporting Data Base etc. And time was passing very quickly... In July 2010 I graduated with Ms degree in physics and was accepted as a PhD-student in Germany. Well.. I had really nice impression first: nice people around, beautiful western Europa, relatively better conditions of work and study, more or less good salary, that I even did not realize that PhD-thesis topic, and what is more, field of researches was really, let's say, just not for me. I have no satisfaction with this work. And every day I go to the Uni without any interest. Working in Ukraine, I was really happy, although was not good paid and so.

So, I am dreaming now of work, similar to my previous one. But:
- I have no education in pharmacy, computer science (I know CRM SAP, SQL and several languages, but not Oracle that is really necessary now...), and marketing;
- I am non-EU resident;
- I only study german, but still need time, although I am able to speak german quite OK, and my level is B2;

I don't know wether I have any chances. And, unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time to study Oracle, because I study german very intensively + work really a lot. What do you think: can it be possible to find a job in CH? I really want to find myself.. I don't want to do work I don't like.... Maybe, somebody had a relative experience?

Looking forward to hear from you....
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Old 07.12.2010, 22:45
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

The first issue i see is that you don't have degree in what you actually know, i know this sounds bureaucratic but most of the job posts in CH would require relevant education, specially when it comes to RDS, Oracle ain't so big difference than Sql.

You can check some job posts at:

http://jobup.ch
http://jobs.ch

There's various posts requiring DBA's, though you'll have another problem which is the permit, but if the employer is willing and can proof it then you'll get it
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Old 07.12.2010, 22:54
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

Thank you for replying to my post!

Yes, that's what I was talking about, but unfortunately I have no relevant education the field of DB Administration. Probably, employers don't like to deal with a work permit for foreigners...
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Old 07.12.2010, 23:02
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

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Thank you for replying to my post!

Yes, that's what I was talking about, but unfortunately I have no relevant education the field of DB Administration. Probably, employers don't like to deal with a work permit for foreigners...
They do if you're qualified and experienced, then they can prove to the government why they would hire someone.
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Old 07.12.2010, 23:05
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

Strongly hope so... So, it should be possible, in principle...
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Old 07.12.2010, 23:13
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

If an employer can find your skills competitive and can prove it, you can get a job and permit, why not try to do your PHD in CH?, that would be easier way.
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Old 07.12.2010, 23:21
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

Hm, I also was thinking about it; maybe I will find smth in the fild I am interested, but still no available positions... in Ukraine I was working in the field of scanning probe microscopy before I started my PhD in the field of quantum mechanics...
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Old 08.12.2010, 00:38
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

If you were happy working at home why don't you go back there? Money isn't the most important thing in life. There is a very nice book I read where the person traveled all around the world only finding when they arrived home again that that is where they were happiest. You've said several times how happy you were in the work you were doing before. You could go back and get more experience.
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Old 08.12.2010, 01:14
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

Well, life in Ukraine is a bit not so positive. First of all, we have mostly no contracts, so you never know what can happen tomorrow: for ex., the owner of the house can kick you from the flat, and how will you prove that he has no right for that? quite a lot of companies don"t pay salary in time, but 2 or 3 months later, and what can you do, if you oficially don"t work there (I mean no contract and some kind of black salary in envelope without any taxes).

In my case, everything worked out according to Ukrainian law. Bit according to this law, I had to pay 17% taxes, so my salary was about 300 euros per month, that is OK in my country, if you have a flat, but I would have a to rent it. Being a student I had some kind of hostel, living with 3(!) other girls in the same 16m-squared room, but paid not so much (~10 euros per month). But even to rent a room in a flat one has to pay about 200 euros per months + other bills like heating and so. It just was not possible to live like this anymore for such a salary. And the policy of the companies where I worked is like increasing of salary once per year 50 euros more. This is typical in Ukraine. So, unfortunately, money was first problem why I left my country. I am not a material girl, but aparently money is really important sometimes...

Here in Germany I am able to travel, to eat what I want (not to buy only cheap and not good food), to wear good clothes, and what is also important - I have an insurance, I can go to the doctor that will not demand any additional money from me as in Ukraine. And I have a contract for a flat I rent - so house owner will not kick me out if somebody proposes higher rent. I also have a contract for a work that i get a regular salary and it is official. I feel really protected. This is really important. So, I would like to stay in Switzerland and live a normal life...
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Old 08.12.2010, 01:39
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

Thank you for telling a bit about your life in the Ukraine. I'm actually quite surprised to hear it is so bad.

Of course, living the 'student life' at the beginning of your career is normal, sharing flats with a bunch if people, having poor pay, eating not good food, wearing old clothes, etc are all completely normal.

Everyone I know has shared flats or lived with their parents for a few years before they were able to move to their own place. I also shared a flat with a bunch of people. I never knew who was actually living there. I was lucky that I had my own small room but I paid more than the others. But I guess it's just worse where you are.

I guess living with 4 girls in 16m2 is really bad though.
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Old 08.12.2010, 03:03
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

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Thank you for telling a bit about your life in the Ukraine. I'm actually quite surprised to hear it is so bad.
Yeah, we tend to forget where we live.

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I guess living with 4 girls in 16m2 is really bad though.
We had that, too, in Germany.
Directly after the war...
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Old 08.12.2010, 04:40
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

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Yeah, we tend to forget where we live.



We had that, too, in Germany.
Directly after the war...
I don't understand you point. It's all very cryptic. Can you elaborate?
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Old 08.12.2010, 09:54
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

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I don't understand you point. It's all very cryptic. Can you elaborate?
I'm sorry.
I wanted to say that we tend to take a lot of things granted, in Switzerland.
Living a live that previously was only available to kings and noble people.

As I said, as a result of the war, there were similar living-conditions in Germany.
But they weren't "normal" in the sense they seem to be in Ukraine.
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Old 08.12.2010, 11:42
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

Yes, in Ukraine such a life is not temporary, but normal... People live like that the whole life. You never know what can happen tomorrow People are really not protected by government, so they have no wish to pay taxes and so...and high level of corruption.. pity, but true...
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Old 08.12.2010, 17:11
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

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I'm sorry.
I wanted to say that we tend to take a lot of things granted, in Switzerland.
Living a live that previously was only available to kings and noble people.

As I said, as a result of the war, there were similar living-conditions in Germany.
But they weren't "normal" in the sense they seem to be in Ukraine.

Oh. Yes. I see what you mean. I live in Buenos Aires. So, I certainly see people living 4 to a room. It tends to be foreigners mostly and labor jobs. Not so much computer scientists. Although students and new grads do live a budget life style all over the world. Well, except on TV. Here they mostly stay with their parents.

I don't know anything about the Ukraine except what I hear in the media and the economy was doing pretty good. I did read it was hit by crisis in 2008. But so did a lot of countries and I read that it is recovering. Again all this is academic really as I've never been there. I was surprised to hear it is so bad.

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Yes, in Ukraine such a life is not temporary, but normal... People live like that the whole life. You never know what can happen tomorrow People are really not protected by government, so they have no wish to pay taxes and so...and high level of corruption.. pity, but true...
It's the same were I live. I would still suggest you finish your education at home in a topic that you enjoy. Then start looking for a job else where when you have stronger qualifications. Maybe you could live with family or get a part time job to help with money issues just for a little while?
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Old 09.12.2010, 14:10
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

Seems, I really don't want to finish it, and what is more - don't want to go bacxk home.. To live with parents is not so positive - they are in a small town, where there is nothing to do... and seems I would like to work more that to do PhD, at least in theor. physics.. but thatnk u very much!
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Old 09.12.2010, 18:13
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

Have you thought about becoming a teacher for Russian or physics?

CH has a massive shortage of teachers - it may be a way to get you a work permit.
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Old 09.12.2010, 18:29
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

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Seems, I really don't want to finish it, and what is more - don't want to go bacxk home.. To live with parents is not so positive - they are in a small town, where there is nothing to do... and seems I would like to work more that to do PhD, at least in theor. physics.. but thatnk u very much!
I think you're doing a mistake, a big one in my opinion. This PhD will be your best passport ever, you'll be able to work in companies many dream of working for, and not necessarily in the same field. You have no idea how much certain people value formal education. I don't have a PhD but I had colleagues who otherwise wouldn't have been hired. It doesn't make you a better person, that's for sure, but it helps a lot especially when you come from a country people know verry little about.
Don't give up...
Cheers
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Old 09.12.2010, 21:37
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

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Seems, I really don't want to finish it, and what is more - don't want to go bacxk home.. To live with parents is not so positive - they are in a small town, where there is nothing to do... and seems I would like to work more that to do PhD, at least in theor. physics.. but thatnk u very much!
Oh. Darling. I'm sorry you sound very sad in this post.

Listen, I'm going to play the "mom" and agree with Green above. It might be best to dig in your heels & finish up your PhD as quickly as you can. Or is it possible you change programs at the school you are in?
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Old 11.12.2010, 09:46
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Re: Work in CH for non-EU...

You may wish to consider the US or UK as alternatives. Employment opportunities for candidates with your academic/research background are in great demand, in industries you'd never imagine possible. In fact, I know of a Ukrainian who had an aeronautical degree from home, transit into finance after getting a US MS degree in quantitative finance. I am not familiar with the German PhD system, but in the US, you have leeway. In fact many of my classmates were either PhD drop-outs in physics/computer science/engineering or PhD holders.

Also, this may be cliched but you need to focus on your core skills when you present yourself on both the CV and cover letter. You mentioned marketing, well think of how you would 'sell' your profile to the potential employer, find out about the industry/company and consider how your background could potentially be invaluable. Research and be creative!

Thanks for sharing your bit and my best wishes to you.
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Last edited by Yves22; 11.12.2010 at 09:51. Reason: typo
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