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  #21  
Old 09.03.2011, 04:27
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

Ah, thank you internets for jerky comments (not all of you of course). To recap, I was offered the position, but no details were given to me at the time of this posting...I was trying to do some dd on what my recommended salary range is. I thought this would be a different exercise than asking you all if XXX CHF annual salary enough to live in ZRH. I know ZRH is crazy expensive and know what my own P&L looks like, I just want to be sure my salary expectations are competitive so I know how hard to push on the negotiation. So to be clear, I haven't accepted this position yet nor have I negotiated at all. Thought you all could help a brother out.

I recently received the offer...here is the breakdown:
-95K USD @ .94CHF FX rate, translates to 89K CHF/annum
-Home mousing norm of 850 (I pay this to receive the 2200 mentioned below)
-after tax take home of 50K CHF
-COLA adjustment brings after tax take home to 65K CHF
-receive a 2,200 CHF housing allowance paid to landlord directly
-one time relocation allowance of 8K CHF
-bonus is 10% of salary, but, my company isn't knowing for paying bonuses, this will be a rare event so I do not count on it.

I heard the finance managers at my company in ZRH make 125K CHF....to me sounds reasonable. Obviously I see a huge delta between my 89K and the 125K I would receive as a local hire. I know there are costs involved (tax equalization, housing allowance, etc...), but I think I have to put my foot down on the base salary and get it to a respectable level. I am pretty sure I should be pushing above 100K CHF/USD. My initial thoughts are that the salary range should fall between 110K and 125K CHF.

As for the specific position, I manage and negotiate M&A/JV/Partnerships from 10M- 100's M (no billion $ deals yet). I would think the equivalent in an ibank is an MD (MD is below VP ya?). I work directly for the Director of M&A and corporate CFO.

Thoughts?
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  #22  
Old 09.03.2011, 05:20
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

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Ah, thank you internets for jerky comments (not all of you of course). To recap, I was offered the position, but no details were given to me at the time of this posting...I was trying to do some dd on what my recommended salary range is. I thought this would be a different exercise than asking you all if XXX CHF annual salary enough to live in ZRH. I know ZRH is crazy expensive and know what my own P&L looks like, I just want to be sure my salary expectations are competitive so I know how hard to push on the negotiation. So to be clear, I haven't accepted this position yet nor have I negotiated at all. Thought you all could help a brother out.

I recently received the offer...here is the breakdown:
-95K USD @ .94CHF FX rate, translates to 89K CHF/annum
-Home mousing norm of 850 (I pay this to receive the 2200 mentioned below)
-after tax take home of 50K CHF
-COLA adjustment brings after tax take home to 65K CHF
-receive a 2,200 CHF housing allowance paid to landlord directly
-one time relocation allowance of 8K CHF
-bonus is 10% of salary, but, my company isn't knowing for paying bonuses, this will be a rare event so I do not count on it.

I heard the finance managers at my company in ZRH make 125K CHF....to me sounds reasonable. Obviously I see a huge delta between my 89K and the 125K I would receive as a local hire. I know there are costs involved (tax equalization, housing allowance, etc...), but I think I have to put my foot down on the base salary and get it to a respectable level. I am pretty sure I should be pushing above 100K CHF/USD. My initial thoughts are that the salary range should fall between 110K and 125K CHF.

As for the specific position, I manage and negotiate M&A/JV/Partnerships from 10M- 100's M (no billion $ deals yet). I would think the equivalent in an ibank is an MD (MD is below VP ya?). I work directly for the Director of M&A and corporate CFO.

Thoughts?
Your foreign.. it can well be that the Swiss person doing a similar job will earn more then you do.

So what ever you get paid, it will be less then what a Swiss person gets, then again 89k and up is a nice salary.
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  #23  
Old 09.03.2011, 06:05
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

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I was trying to do some dd [...] know what my own P&L looks like [...] help a brother out [...] I see a huge delta [...] the equivalent in an ibank
Do you talk like this in real life? Is it an "ibanker" thing?

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  #24  
Old 09.03.2011, 09:28
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

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-95K USD @ .94CHF FX rate, translates to 89K CHF/annum
-after tax take home of 50K CHF
Even factoring in that you'll still have to pay US taxes - a tax rate of almost 50 % seems to be rather steep.

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-Home mousing norm of 850 (I pay this to receive the 2200 mentioned below)
-COLA adjustment brings after tax take home to 65K CHF
-receive a 2,200 CHF housing allowance paid to landlord directly
Factoring in your COLA adjustment of 15k annually and your housing allowance of 16.200 - (2200-850)x12 - your salary increases by 31.000 CHF. Thus your gross salary is worth around 120.000 CHF - not too far from your Swiss benchmark of 125k CHF.
And yes, one can live with a 120k CHF salary in Switzerland.
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  #25  
Old 09.03.2011, 09:40
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

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Ah, thank you internets for jerky comments (not all of you of course). To recap, I was offered the position, but no details were given to me at the time of this posting...I was trying to do some dd on what my recommended salary range is. I thought this would be a different exercise than asking you all if XXX CHF annual salary enough to live in ZRH. I know ZRH is crazy expensive and know what my own P&L looks like, I just want to be sure my salary expectations are competitive so I know how hard to push on the negotiation. So to be clear, I haven't accepted this position yet nor have I negotiated at all. Thought you all could help a brother out.

<snip>

Thoughts?
Yes we can, but we can't help if not supplied the detailed information in the first place, hence you get trolled. It makes easy fodder for the forum artillery.

Sometimes this comes across as lazy/lacking research. I'm not saying that applies to you but you have to realise the number of these questions we answer on a daily basis. Which takes effort + time, when really most of this lot should be working.

Nothing personal. It's like asking how long is a piece of string.

You're second set of information is much better, so you should get a higher quality reply. I don't know your field so I can't help you out but good luck with finding the information you need.

Last edited by Cata1yst; 09.03.2011 at 10:16.
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  #26  
Old 09.03.2011, 10:00
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

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-Home mousing norm
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Thoughts?
Are you living in someone's barn?
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  #27  
Old 09.03.2011, 10:04
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

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Are we talking Millions, hundreds of Millions or Billions of contract value? You know, that might have a slight impact on your salary...
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I recently received the offer...here is the breakdown:
-95K USD @ .94CHF FX rate, translates to 89K CHF/annum
Ahhh, sorry. I thought you work on merging companies. Looks like you work on merging word documents or something like that...
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  #28  
Old 09.03.2011, 10:20
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

Guys whilst highly amusing, give the guy a break he's learned the errors of his ways, and supplied better info..

Muchos Gracias to the Trollz
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  #29  
Old 09.03.2011, 10:20
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

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I work directly for the Director of M&A and corporate CFO.
Thoughts?
Methinks, that is a M&A project manager profile.
100-120 should be reasonable.
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  #30  
Old 09.03.2011, 10:32
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

If we take it as 89K + some benefits then it is not a bad salary for the general population but for the finance industry it seems a bit on the low side. Then again it depends on experience.

But don't forget that the company pays you the figure they think you want to get you to do the job. I once had a job where a junior colleague of mine earned more than me and the line from the boss was just "you would do the job for x and he would do the job for y, just because you do a better job doesn't mean we pay you more".

So, again 89k is a good starting point, but a little on the low side.
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  #31  
Old 09.03.2011, 10:41
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

He gets 16.5k towards his rent so getting towards the right ballpark. Although I'm not sure if he has to pay 850 monthly or as a one off. If it's a one off then obviously a much higher payout towards rent.
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  #32  
Old 09.03.2011, 11:03
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

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Guys whilst highly amusing, give the guy a break he's learned the errors of his ways, and supplied better info..
No, he hasn't. In order to give any relevant feedback: The breakdown is completely useless to judge weather or not the salary is ok for his position unless we know his work experience, education and the responsibility of the role: "Project Manager" can be anything from trainee to leading a billion CHF project.

EDIT: Just read the last part again. If "MD" stands for "managing director" and VP for "vice president": I know at least one large Swiss bankt where the managing director is two level HIGHER than a vice president - in between would be "director". I also know that it is fairly different at the other one of the two big banks, so the only thing that is safe to say is: There is no general table for titles and/or salaries attached to them, they are company specific.

The 850 towards a housing allowance cannot be one-off, that's monthly. (If it would be one-off, you simply give less relocation money)

Overall is this salary not really great in my eyes - which is what I tried to express with the last joke - I do not work in finance but even in telecoms can project managers relatively easily earn more than that. I know IT project managers in banking who make considerably more and I find the approach to offer a USD salary very weird: If you get an expat package to go to a low income country, the calculation makes sense. But if the OP is sent to Switzerland where people earn at least the same and the CHF is continuously rising against the USD... well, never mind.

Last edited by Treverus; 09.03.2011 at 11:53.
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  #33  
Old 09.03.2011, 11:07
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

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The 850 towards a housing allowance cannot be one-off, that's monthly. (If it would be one-off, you simply give less relocation money)
I understood this as his contribution towards the housing allowance, eg, he receives a taxable housing allowance of CHF2'200 but has to play the tax of CHF850 on that amount. So you can basically add another 26'400 to his gross.
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  #34  
Old 09.03.2011, 11:55
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

Got a work-permit?
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  #35  
Old 09.03.2011, 20:44
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

Thank you all for the constructive comments.

The work permit application is in process but I figure I need to agree/negotiate this quickly so HR can finish the process.

Looking at my offer balance sheet, I pay 850/month after tax to receive the 2200/month payment. I don't see that stipend in my taxable income so I assume the company pays the taxes for it as an employee benefit.

To give more detail, here is the salary breakdown:
gross: 89k
taxes/pension/ss: 29k
net salary: 60k
home housing norm (850/month): 10k
sub total before COLA: 49K
total after COLA: 65k
housing allowance: 26k

As a reminder this is a tax equalized salary. So I pay US taxes on my ZRH job, and get a W2 as well, company pays for Swiss taxes. I understand I will be paying higher taxes than a Swiss employee.
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  #36  
Old 09.03.2011, 20:56
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

Are you solo or with partner/family ?

That salary's absolutely liveable if you are unattached and don't overextend on the apartment, expensive car or have a huge amount of debt 'back home'...

Also, depends how much international travel you plan to pay for in a year - trips home add up too...

My impression is that the Swiss are pretty tight about knowing what they expect to pay, and paying the correct amount. And it's not my experience that locals get higher salaries - actually, the opposite, if they can't fill the position locally, they'll have to prove that and they will have to prove that they are offering a reasonable salary either locally or internationally - I am aware of the authorities threatening to knock back work permits because the salary was too low for that particular profession..
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  #37  
Old 10.03.2011, 16:54
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

This may help - salaries for VPs and above in M&A:

http://news.efinancialcareers.co.uk/...wsItemId-31349

It seems that they should be paying you much more.
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  #38  
Old 10.03.2011, 17:17
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

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This may help - salaries for VPs and above in M&A:

http://news.efinancialcareers.co.uk/...wsItemId-31349

It seems that they should be paying you much more.
That doesn't help the OP at all!

Firstly it is for the UK - a different country to Switzerland.

Secondly it shows pay for mid-level to senior bankers working for investment banks. The OP is not a banker and is not working for a bank giving advice to companies on M&A.

OP banks have their own corporate title system which bares no resemblance to any other industry, so don't try and compare them. A VP is never more senior than an MD in banking for example. Fwiw the number of staff employed in M&A advisory teams in Switzerland is very very low compared to London or New York, as the market is much smaller here. They are almost exclusively staffed by Swiss people too. The salary you are talking about is one that an ibank would pay a college graduate, but I doubt you are expected to exchange your soul for your job
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  #39  
Old 10.03.2011, 18:27
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

Where the rubber meets the road is an idea of the kind of lifestyle you expect to lead.

Do you have kids with large tuition fees?
What kind of car are you driving?
What kind of house do you live in?
Where do you vacation and how often?
How often do you golf?
What is the price tag of the typical anniversary gift you give your wife/s.o.?
What can you buy with your yearly bonus? A car? A vacation house?

Pour it on, and make it extravagant. The EF readers love extravagance.
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  #40  
Old 10.03.2011, 18:27
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Re: Salary negotiation for M&A position

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I am moving to Zurich in the spring from the US and will be performing a corporate M&A function at a global Swiss company where I will manage acquisitions/JV/partnerships/etc... The official title will be M&A Manager.

The position involves a lot of travel, long hours, and managing complex projects. Curious to know what other folks in ZRH/Swiss are making for a similar position so I have an idea of what my reasonable salary negotiation range is.

Thanks
Look here.

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e.../salarium.html

It is in German, Italian and French, but google translate will work with the scripts
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