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Upthehatters2008 22.02.2011 17:40

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by araqyl (Post 1112838)
I'm still wondering how an overpayment on their part, due to their lack of organisation and irregular payment of what should be a simple monthly salary, could in any way involve "swindle & fraud" on Bob's part - looks like they're trying to wave a big stick around, in hopes of scaring Bob into paying. It's entirely possible they've got no idea if he owes money or not, from the sound of their level of organisation.

Had he been overpaid, and refused to return the overpayment, it could be construed as Fraud, i.e. gaining a pecuniary advantage. It's a civil matter though, arrest just doesn't come into the picture.

miniMia 22.02.2011 17:56

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
I agree with Nick that you probably need a lawyer (not that I don't agree with the rest of the posters. There are some good ideas, suggestion there).

My question is have they sent any documents proving that you were over paid? Have the sent you a list of payments to you so that you can go through them and match them with your records? Did they give you the total they paid out to you? Does it match the total you received? It seems to me it's just a book keeping error (probably on their part as from what you say they don't sound too organized).

Oh, & BTW can we change the protagonists name from Bob to... I don't know... Harold?

menace 24.02.2011 13:07

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nickatbasel (Post 1112575)
I would advise Bob to take professional legal advice and to take anything the armchair lawyers on here type with a pinch of salt.

I can recommend Gabrielle Grether (http://www.gmacg.com) - she speaks v. good English and advises many freelancers - including expats.

Cheers,
Nick

Thanks - Bob wants to know is she expensive? Does the first hour's advice come free!?

I suppose he should look at her website first...

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 1112746)
I reckon that's the way to play - or rather not play it.

The payroll company are at this stage "threatening legal action involving "swindle and fraud and a warrant" [for Bob's arrest]."

Let them try. This requires time, effort, money and documentary evidence. Sounds like they have little or none of any of these. If they really do proceed, then seek legal advice...

I knew we'd find something harmonious bewteen us eventually. Thanks...unless you and Ade are trying to set Bob up, ha ha ha

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrianlondon (Post 1112679)
Well, unless it gets to "We Break Legs Ltd" you ignore that, too.

That would bring some much-needed relief into the daily monotony of life. Bob could hire the local so what? so do we from Croydon

Quote:

Originally Posted by miniMia (Post 1112991)
I agree with Nick that you probably need a lawyer (not that I don't agree with the rest of the posters. There are some good ideas, suggestion there).

My question is have they sent any documents proving that you were over paid? Have the sent you a list of payments to you so that you can go through them and match them with your records? Did they give you the total they paid out to you? Does it match the total you received? It seems to me it's just a book keeping error (probably on their part as from what you say they don't sound too organized).

Oh, & BTW can we change the protagonists name from Bob to... I don't know... Harold?

Good questions...no They've not provided any evidence whatsoever. They do lack organisation, and moral fibre.

They are however being pursued by the agency, who apparently also made an erroneous payment to them, and who have been in touch with Bob, threatening legal action against the payroll company. Should Bob bother to explain to the Agency that no overpayment has been made to him? He was always on better terms with the agency than the payroll company, as they helped him recover his debts [from the payroll company].

I suppose Bob could change his name by deed poll to Harold...but why would he want to do that?

miniMia 24.02.2011 13:19

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1115137)

Good questions...no They've not provided any evidence whatsoever. They do lack organisation, and moral fibre.

They are however being pursued by the agency, who apparently also made an erroneous payment to them, and who have been in touch with Bob, threatening legal action against the payroll company. Should Bob bother to explain to the Agency that no overpayment has been made to him? He was always on better terms with the agency than the payroll company, as they helped him recover his debts [from the payroll company].

I suppose Bob could change his name by deed poll to Harold...but why would he want to do that?

Of course. They need to show what was overpaid. They can't possibly think that just saying "hey Bob, we over paid" is justification of anything at all.... BTW, Bob owes me money too.

Even though they sound like bozos, the first thing I would do is write them a nice letter stating that of course you want to settle the issue and if they could please provide you with the list of payments; amounts and dates, as well as the account to which it was paid so that you can reconcile them with your records. Then go from there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1115137)

I suppose Bob could change his name by deed poll to Harold...but why would he want to do that?

In you first post you didn't sound that committed to the name Bob. I like Harold better. Just think about it.

menace 24.02.2011 15:25

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
You're right of course. The name has been changed to protect the innocent. If we started mucking about changing it again, it might just confuse the issue further. Besides, Harold might be too close for comfort to the original name, which would negate the..well, you get the idea.

Bob thinks he might just write the email below in reply to the one recieved from the agency (below below) who overpaid the payroll company and are considering suing them, explaining that he has not been overpaid at all, but if the payroll company would like to send him copies of all the payments they made to Bob in total, and what they think they should have paid him as per the agreed daily rate and duration of contract, he will gladly point out where they went wrong, and of course share his findings with the agency, in order that they know where the cause of the problem lies.

He is considering calling Neil at IT Folk, who he knows reasonably well, to explain this first.

Dear Matthew

I am surprised and shocked by these allegations, although of course I had previously been made aware by mail that IT Folk had overpaid Gobo.

As you are no doubt aware, Gobo, Bobbins, or whatever they call themselves these days, were completely unprofessional in their service to me, paying me both late and less than was due on many occasions, as Neil can confirm. It took a great deal of effort on Neil's part, for which I am eternally grateful, to ensure that the full amount I was owed was eventually paid to me, although even that was a couple of hundred pounds short.

The only reason I was aware of these discrepancies is that I kept detailed records on what should have been and what was paid to me by said payroll company, records that I shared regularly with Neil to help eventually extract the correct payment, so I can say with absolute conviction and certainty that no overpayment was made to me whatsoever.

As to the letters, I have received nothing from Gobo, and I nor anyone else have signed for any recorded deliveries to my address. If Gobo were to send me detailed records of all the payments they made to me, alongside what they believe I should have been paid as per the agreed daily rate and duration of contract, taking into account the agreed rises to the daily rate, I shall be happy to point out their errors, as myself and Neil did every month during the contract.

For the record, Gobo's services were by far the worst and most shoddy I have ever had the misfortune to experience.

thank you

warm regards

Bob

Subject: Payments
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011
From: Matthew Mulberry
To: Bob Roberts

Good Afternoon Bob,

I hope you are well.

I have been made aware of a situation of overpayment to your management company and in turn (allegedly) to yourself by your management company for services for the period April 2010.

Your management company were paid 2 sums which they in turn are saying they paid to you.

They are also stating that they have sent you recorded letters asking you to respond and in turn pay the overpayment back. They have proof and acknowledgement of receipt for letters that they sent.

I would strongly advise you to speak to your management company in relation to this alleged over payment as they are in the process of taking legal proceedings against you to recoup their loss

I would also request that you contact myself or one of my colleagues at IT Folk if you feel that this is not the case, before we in turn take further action

I look forward to your call

Kind regards

Matthew

Matthew Mulberry
Assistant Director
IT Folk

What do y'all think?

Phil_MCR 24.02.2011 15:33

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1115433)
You're right of course. The name has been changed to protect the innocent. If we started mucking about changing it again, it might just confuse the issue further. Besides, Harold might be too close for comfort to the original name, which would negate the..well, you get the idea.

I think Bob might just write an email to the agency who overpaid the payroll company and are considering suing them, explaining that he has not been overpaid at all, but if the payroll company would like to send him copies of all the payments they made to Bob in total, and what they think they should have paid him as per the agreed daily rate and duration of contract, he will gladly point out where they went wrong, and of course share his findings with the agency, in order that they know where the cause of the problem lies.

What do y'all think?

sounds good to me. and since we're being swiss about it, once it's over, don't forget to send an invoice for the time spent on this ;)

menace 24.02.2011 16:02

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 1115453)
sounds good to me. and since we're being swiss about it, once it's over, don't forget to send an invoice for the time spent on this ;)

Well, I'm not Swiss, and neither are they, but if I can do this, can I also invoice them for all the time spent previously correcting their mistakes.

In all seriousness...can I add to the letter that I will of course charge them for my time?

miniMia 24.02.2011 16:40

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
I really do think it is a matter of miscommunication or that Gobo is holding on to the money making ITFolks' problem is with Gobo and not you.

Personally, I would take out anything that is overly emotional like "shocked" and "the worst" "and whatever they are calling themselves" etc. Best if you keep it business like using "surprised", "Gobo AKA Bobbins" or "previously Bobbins", "working with them was difficult" "will find another company better suited to..." those kinds of things.

Oh, one more thing in the first sentence so you mean ITFolks sent mail/post/letter or email?

PS, I hope you know I'm joking about the name. I would be fun to be psychic. I'd play the lottery. :)

AbFab 24.02.2011 18:36

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1115137)
I knew we'd find something harmonious bewteen us eventually. Thanks...unless you and Ade are trying to set Bob up, ha ha ha

I was helping Bob out - NOT YOU...

NotAllThere 24.02.2011 19:50

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Possibly a similar situation to this.

Perhaps they've not deducted taxes they should have done, and are now trying to claw it back.

menace 25.02.2011 12:59

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miniMia (Post 1115592)
Oh, one more thing in the first sentence so you mean ITFolks sent mail/post/letter or email?

PS, I hope you know I'm joking about the name. I would be fun to be psychic. I'd play the lottery. :)

Good advice, ta very much, for all of it I mean, not just the sub quote. I'm a pretty emotional, passionate buy really, not that I cry or anything, but bwoy, I couldn't stand ignorance or incompetetance.

Yeah ITFolk sent Bob an email, it was the email below Bobs reply, the one he replied to.

Oh no, sorry, you don't mean that. yeah before all this kicked off Bob got a letter from ITfolk that was a copy of one they'd sent Gobo saying they'd overpaid and asking for the money back.

Bob knows you were joking ho ho ho

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 1115782)
I was helping Bob out - NOT YOU...

Ha ha, Bob sends his heartfelt gratitude. As do I, as his friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 1115827)
Possibly a similar situation to this.

Perhaps they've not deducted taxes they should have done, and are now trying to claw it back.

yeah, if Bob understands it correctly, that was why the contract was so convulated in the first place, as to be able to work in Switzerland for over six months without paying backdated taxes from the beginning of your contract you have to be employed and billed by a Swiss company from the start, or something like that, right? So they knew about that from the start and in fact that was why Bob was coerced into getting into bed with them, much to his chagrin. Anyway, I'm pretty sure they're after the money from Bob cos ITFolk are after the money from them.

miniMia 25.02.2011 18:47

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1116576)
Good advice, ta very much, for all of it I mean, not just the sub quote. I'm a pretty emotional, passionate buy really, not that I cry or anything, but bwoy, I couldn't stand ignorance or incompetence.

I'm with you which is why I don't work in the "corporate world" anymore. Filled with incompetence! ;) (no offense to you working bees! I'm sure you're the exception). But 'just the facts' is probably the best approach. You don't want to look like a drama queen. cool calm & collected is a better approach. :)


Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1116576)
Yeah ITFolk sent Bob an email, it was the email below Bobs reply, the one he replied to.

Oh no, sorry, you don't mean that. yeah before all this kicked off Bob got a letter from ITfolk that was a copy of one they'd sent Gobo saying they'd overpaid and asking for the money back.

I just meant in this sentence:
"I am surprised and shocked by these allegations, although of course I had previously been made aware by mail that IT Folk had overpaid Gobo. "

It seems like letters, registered letters and emails are flying back & forth, all are technically mail. Just be clear what kind of mail.

Wish Bob luck.

menace 26.02.2011 13:17

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miniMia (Post 1117084)
I'm with you which is why I don't work in the "corporate world" anymore. Filled with incompetence!

Yeah, neither do I at the moment, and I'd love that to be through my choice, but unfortunately I can't rest on my laurels forever. I am trying to get a position in the UN with the World Food program, but, failing that and a few other public-spirited irons I have in the fire, I'm afraid I will be forced into joining the corporate wiorld of incompetance once again - if I can.

miniMia 26.02.2011 15:22

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1117490)
Yeah, neither do I at the moment, and I'd love that to be through my choice, but unfortunately I can't rest on my laurels forever. I am trying to get a position in the UN with the World Food program, but, failing that and a few other public-spirited irons I have in the fire, I'm afraid I will be forced into joining the corporate wiorld of incompetance once again - if I can.

good luck! let us know how it turns out.

menace 10.03.2011 19:50

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Bob's not heard anything yet - however he could do with a P45 from them. Probably got no chance really, has he? Don't suppose it matters does it? Will he get away with a P46?

menace 12.04.2011 20:43

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Bobs still getting the same letters

miniMia 12.04.2011 21:02

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1167632)
Bobs still getting the same letters

Really? Have they sent you justifications for this overpayment? Did you call them?

menace 07.05.2011 13:07

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Really really. They didn't send me anything, just Bob. Obviously I haven't called them, as far as I know niether did Bob. I believe he passed a message on to them through a third party asking for justicication. Naturally, he hasn't as yet received any, at least not as far as I know. Just more of the same letters. Mind you, it's been at least a month since the last one.

miniMia 07.05.2011 17:13

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1189184)
Really really. They didn't send me anything, just Bob. Obviously I haven't called them, as far as I know niether did Bob. I believe he passed a message on to them through a third party asking for justicication. Naturally, he hasn't as yet received any, at least not as far as I know. Just more of the same letters. Mind you, it's been at least a month since the last one.

I think Bob really, really should get them on the phone. It might be a month since the last one because they sent it to collections. Tell Bob to call them and insist they send a list the payments/missing payments/double payments, etc so you can compare them to your records.

Good luck! (get on the phone. don't ignore it.)


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