English Forum Switzerland

English Forum Switzerland (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php)
-   Employment (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/)
-   -   Legal Action for overpayment (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/107095-legal-action-overpayment.html)

menace 22.02.2011 11:21

Legal Action for overpayment
 
A nameless third party, lets call him Bob, worked as a contractor in Switzerland recently. His contract was a convaluted set-up, working through an agency for an offshore consultancy whose client was based in Zurich. Due to the fact that the offshore consultancy did not have any business based in Switzerland, Bob was informed by the agency he had to use a particular payroll company, who would act as his direct employer in Switzerland and from whom he would recieve his wages.

Wages thus went Client in Zurich -> Offshore Consultancy -> Agency -> Payroll Company.

During the time of the contract, the payroll company changed their name and business address several times, as well as the contract between themseleves and Bob. Not suprisingly, Bob's wages were always late and often much less than was due to him, which meant he had to spend hours on the phone chasing them every month.

Eventually the contract ended, and Bob managed, after much effort, to get the full amount owed to him within a few hundred quid, although the amounts and dates of backlog of wages did not correspond to the agreed monthly wage.

Sometime afterwards, Bob was contacted by the Payroll Agency who claimed to have submitted a double payment by mistake, and wanted seven and a half grand back. This was of course nonsense, but they are now threatening legal action involving "swindle and fraud and a warrant" [for Bob's arrest].

Anyone got any advice of what Bob should do? He is reluctant to get involved in costly legal proceedings, but niether does he want to come down on the worng side of the law. Can he just ignore the whole thing, given that he is now back in London?

Mikers 22.02.2011 11:25

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1112312)
A nameless third party, lets call him Bob, worked as a contractor in Switzerland recently. His contract was a convaluted set-up, working through an agency for an offshore consultancy whose client was based in Zurich. Due to the fact that the offshore consultancy did not have any business based in Switzerland, Bob was informed by the agency he had to use a particular payroll company, who would act as his direct employer in Switzerland and from whom he would recieve his wages.

Wages thus went Client in Zurich -> Offshore Consultancy -> Agency -> Payroll Company.

During the time of the contract, the payroll company changed their name and business address several times, as well as the contract between themseleves and Bob. Not suprisingly, Bob's wages were always late and often much less than was due to him, which meant he had to spend hours on the phone chasing them every month.

Eventually the contract ended, and Bob managed, after much effort, to get the full amount owed to him within a few hundred quid, although the amounts and dates of backlog of wages did not correspond to the agreed monthly wage.

Sometime afterwards, Bob was contacted by the Payroll Agency who claimed to have submitted a double payment by mistake, and wanted seven and a half grand back. This was of course nonsense, but they are now threatening legal action involving "swindle and fraud and a warrant" [for Bob's arrest].

Anyone got any advice of what Bob should do? He is reluctant to get involved in costly legal proceedings, but niether does he want to come down on the worng side of the law. Can he just ignore the whole thing, given that he is now back in London?

Depends on whether the arrangement was in the first place legal or involved tax evasion by both sides I would say. If they were doing the offshore umbrella loan with no-repayment tax avoidance measure I doubt they would pursue you because of risk to themselves.

If they were doing stuff just inside the law and they have overpaid you and can prove it then its up to them - they have to raise the necessary paperwork and costs to go after you. A few hundred you could just ignore them but at 7.5 I think they might pursue you.

22.02.2011 11:29

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
If he was living here, the Payroll company would probably accuse him of the debt at the Debtor's Court (Betreibungsamt or Office de Poursuites) and Bob would have the possibility of objecting and showing the evidence to a court judge.

However as he has left Switzerland I think he can safely sleep well at night, as the possibility of persuing him internationally for CHF 7'500 is nil.

To clear his conscience he might want to write to the Payroll company (With no return address!) explaining that they have made a mistake.

How did they accuse him when he doesn't live here anymore? Do you have power of attorney?

Upthehatters2008 22.02.2011 11:34

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Issue an immediate counter claim. If the allegations of swindle fraud and theft are in writing, you have them by the balls. They received payment instructions from a 3rd party and send money to you, even if they overpaid you , the mistake is theirs. Seriously, counterclaim for libel and Crimen Injuria. These bullies need to be smacked down. If what you say is true, you stand to gain if you pursue them back.

Ziger 22.02.2011 11:59

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1112312)
Sometime afterwards, Bob was contacted by the Payroll Agency who claimed to have submitted a double payment by mistake, and wanted seven and a half grand back. This was of course nonsense, but they are now threatening legal action involving "swindle and fraud and a warrant" [for Bob's arrest].

Anyone got any advice of what Bob should do? He is reluctant to get involved in costly legal proceedings, but niether does he want to come down on the worng side of the law. Can he just ignore the whole thing, given that he is now back in London?

So, if I understand correctly, they are thus far only threatening legal action, right? It is probably best to wait to see if they will actually go through before doing anything. Threatening someone with legal action is the first step in trying to resolve something without going to court. It doesn't mean that they will actually take it to court. Filing in court would mean, first of all, taking on the costs of the process and, secondly, knowing that they can prove their claims.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ittigen (Post 1112337)
However as he has left Switzerland I think he can safely sleep well at night, as the possibility of persuing him internationally for CHF 7'500 is nil.

Not really. If they really do get a court order here in Switzerland, it is easily enforced in England. He would however have to be properly served, which means also a chance to defend himself, should it even get that far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ittigen (Post 1112337)
To clear his conscience he might want to write to the Payroll company (With no return address!) explaining that they have made a mistake.

This is not a bad suggestions, except that no return address part (not too hard to get around that). Send a registered letter stating that you deny all such claims and that you have all the documents (assuming you do) to prove that you were not overpaid, so any actions taken in court would have no merit.

Given how fishy the whole setup was, it sounds like they are hoping to scare him into coughing up the money and don't have any real interest in going to court. This in particular as they are not threatening him with a civil law suit but "arrest", which is criminal and a whole other ball game, as we say. Fishy, fishy, fishy.

menace 22.02.2011 12:00

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Thanks folks, that was fast.

Bob reckons the set-up was quasi-legal at best, there was definite tax avoidance going on (when isn't there), and the fact they kept changing their name and address seemed a bit dodgy.

There was certainly no overpayment as Bob kept detailed records, however he wouldn't put it past them to cook up some records to claim that contracts offered via email were never verified in writing etc etc or some other way of trying it on.

They accused him as they have Bob's current address in the UK, to which the original contracts were sent to, although not all the ammended ones. There is no power of attourney, at least not yet.

The ignore and counterclaim possibilities sound intriguing to Bob. Can he inquire as to what level of expertise and experience posters have here? Also, with the counterclaim, how much is this likely to cost? He's assuming Switzerland is an expensive place to go to court.

Again, many thanks from Bob and I

mimi1981 22.02.2011 12:10

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Surely the onus is on the company to prove the overpayment? They would need to show the actual transfer into Bob's bank account as I'm sure they can't claim Bob was paid in cash.

Ziger 22.02.2011 12:10

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1112406)
There was certainly no overpayment as Bob kept detailed records, however he wouldn't put it past them to cook up some records to claim that contracts offered via email were never verified in writing etc etc or some other way of trying it on.

The ignore and counterclaim possibilities sound intriguing to Bob. Can he inquire as to what level of expertise and experience posters have here? Also, with the counterclaim, how much is this likely to cost? He's assuming Switzerland is an expensive place to go to court.

Counterclaim what? No official claims have been filed, so he would be filing his own claim, not a counterclaim. It would be a so-called negative declaratory claim and given that they have threatened legal action, it would likely not be accepted by Swiss courts.

Yes, it is expensive. Why would he want to do anything? If they file (a civil claim), they have to prove their claims. Why would Bob want to take that on himself?

Upthehatters2008 22.02.2011 12:36

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziger (Post 1112421)
Counterclaim what? No official claims have been filed, so he would be filing his own claim, not a counterclaim. It would be a so-called negative declaratory claim and given that they have threatened legal action, it would likely not be accepted by Swiss courts.

Yes, it is expensive. Why would he want to do anything? If they file (a civil claim), they have to prove their claims. Why would Bob want to take that on himself?

They are claiming from him, you don't have to start a court process to make a claim. He has received a letter of demand from them, Bob should reciprocate.

There exists no contract between Bob and the Payroll company. They have no claim. They have made odious accusations and are now exposed to claims for Crimen Injuria and possibly libel. Depending on Bob's standing in life, these could easily exceed the claim against him by a factor or two.

Bob has done nothing wrong unless he has claimed falsely. Even then, that is a matter between Bob and the Offshore agency.

Bob should wait for legal proceedings and then see a Solicitor. Bob should also consider
Pre-emptive claims for CI etc, perhaps Bob should pay for am initial consultation with a legal firm to put his mind at rest.

Bob has nothing to worry about.

Carlos R 22.02.2011 12:51

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mimi1981 (Post 1112419)
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1112406)
There was certainly no overpayment as Bob kept detailed records, however he wouldn't put it past them to cook up some records to claim that contracts offered via email were never verified in writing etc etc or some other way of trying it on.

Surely the onus is on the company to prove the overpayment? They would need to show the actual transfer into Bob's bank account as I'm sure they can't claim Bob was paid in cash.

What she said.

22.02.2011 12:58

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
I am persuing an ex lodger for 2 months rental in the Swiss debtor's court for CHF 1'000

So far I have paid CHF 170 in fees, which are added to the debt.

Ziger 22.02.2011 13:31

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1112462)
They are claiming from him, you don't have to start a court process to make a claim. He has received a letter of demand from them, Bob should reciprocate.

I agree, hence the suggestion for a registered letter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1112462)
There exists no contract between Bob and the Payroll company. They have no claim.

According to the OP, there was a contract.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1112462)
They have made odious accusations and are now exposed to claims for Crimen Injuria and possibly libel. Depending on Bob's standing in life, these could easily exceed the claim against him by a factor or two.

Bob should wait for legal proceedings and then see a Solicitor. Bob should also consider
Pre-emptive claims for CI etc, perhaps Bob should pay for am initial consultation with a legal firm to put his mind at rest.

Pre-emptive claims for what? Prevent them from filing a lawsuit - they have every right to. Prevent them from sending him more letters. Possible, but expensive. For any kind of civil claim based on an infringement of personality (as they call it here) he would have to prove that he has suffered some kind of harm, which, considering that he is back in London and has been fully paid, would be hard to prove to a Swiss judge. This is not the US. Any kind of legal proceedings, whether criminal or civil, that Bob initiates could prove to be very costly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upthehatters2008 (Post 1112462)
Bob has nothing to worry about.

Which is why he shouldn't do anything other than writing a clear letter back to them until actual legal proceedings have been initiated.

nickatbasel 22.02.2011 13:48

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
I would advise Bob to take professional legal advice and to take anything the armchair lawyers on here type with a pinch of salt.

I can recommend Gabrielle Grether (http://www.gmacg.com) - she speaks v. good English and advises many freelancers - including expats.

Cheers,
Nick

Upthehatters2008 22.02.2011 13:48

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziger (Post 1112549)
I agree, hence the suggestion for a registered letter.


According to the OP, there was a contract.



Pre-emptive claims for what? Prevent them from filing a lawsuit - they have every right to. Prevent them from sending him more letters. Possible, but expensive. For any kind of civil claim based on an infringement of personality (as they call it here) he would have to prove that he has suffered some kind of harm, which, considering that he is back in London and has been fully paid, would be hard to prove to a Swiss judge. This is not the US. Any kind of legal proceedings, whether criminal or civil, that Bob initiates could prove to be very costly.


Which is why he shouldn't do anything other than writing a clear letter back to them until actual legal proceedings have been initiated.


1) Crimen Injuria / Defamation of Character or whatever the Swiss Roman equivalent is. No loss or harm has to be proved, Bob merely has to show he has been hurt by these false accusations. Given the severity and voracity of their initial letter, I would add shock to the hurt. They are accountable for the reckless letter and Bob has the right to remedy through the courts. They have no defense for their actions and if I were a Judge, I would consider them very grave accusations.
Given that the accusations are entirely false , the case is easy to prove. They will not defend it and will be advised by their own legal reps to withdraw or settle.
The amount of damages is irrelevant to the futility of defending such an action, they will end up paying much more in costs for both parties. The mere threat of an action against them will make them see the light, either by their own thought or proper legal advice.

2) They have a right, as does everyone, but they have no grounds.
3) True for every action, but if Bob is to be believed, they have no case and will lose. The loser pays the costs.
4) Claiming for (1) will make them realise both the gravitas of their accusations and the serious intent of Bob to defend. If they are trying it on, this will make them think twice more than a standard letter of denial. Strike first, strike hard.

adrianlondon 22.02.2011 13:52

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
I would do nothing, ignore all demands for money, and wait to see if any official legal action is started.

I always take the lazy approach and, so far, it's paid off. Think this logically ... a dodgy-looking tax-avoiding-looking company who can't keep any of their records in order is asking you for money. You don't give them any. What are they gonna do?

gata 22.02.2011 14:38

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by adrianlondon (Post 1112585)
I would do nothing, ignore all demands for money, and wait to see if any official legal action is started.

I always take the lazy approach and, so far, it's paid off. Think this logically ... a dodgy-looking tax-avoiding-looking company who can't keep any of their records in order is asking you for money. You don't give them any. What are they gonna do?

Sue him?



Sorry couldnt resist :P


Edit: I agree with adrian actually. If they are dodgy they wouldnt want to draw attention to themselves by going on court. So they are just trying to scare Bob into giving them money. And who guarantees that that will be the end of it?

mirfield 22.02.2011 14:42

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by adrianlondon (Post 1112585)
What are they gonna do?

Sell the debt to an even dodgier company?

adrianlondon 22.02.2011 14:50

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mirfield (Post 1112666)
Sell the debt to an even dodgier company?

Well, unless it gets to "We Break Legs Ltd" you ignore that, too.

AbFab 22.02.2011 15:36

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by adrianlondon (Post 1112585)
I would do nothing, ignore all demands for money, and wait to see if any official legal action is started.

I always take the lazy approach and, so far, it's paid off. Think this logically ... a dodgy-looking tax-avoiding-looking company who can't keep any of their records in order is asking you for money. You don't give them any. What are they gonna do?

I reckon that's the way to play - or rather not play it.

The payroll company are at this stage "threatening legal action involving "swindle and fraud and a warrant" [for Bob's arrest]."

Let them try. This requires time, effort, money and documentary evidence. Sounds like they have little or none of any of these. If they really do proceed, then seek legal advice...

araqyl 22.02.2011 16:36

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
I'm still wondering how an overpayment on their part, due to their lack of organisation and irregular payment of what should be a simple monthly salary, could in any way involve "swindle & fraud" on Bob's part - looks like they're trying to wave a big stick around, in hopes of scaring Bob into paying. It's entirely possible they've got no idea if he owes money or not, from the sound of their level of organisation.

Upthehatters2008 22.02.2011 17:40

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by araqyl (Post 1112838)
I'm still wondering how an overpayment on their part, due to their lack of organisation and irregular payment of what should be a simple monthly salary, could in any way involve "swindle & fraud" on Bob's part - looks like they're trying to wave a big stick around, in hopes of scaring Bob into paying. It's entirely possible they've got no idea if he owes money or not, from the sound of their level of organisation.

Had he been overpaid, and refused to return the overpayment, it could be construed as Fraud, i.e. gaining a pecuniary advantage. It's a civil matter though, arrest just doesn't come into the picture.

miniMia 22.02.2011 17:56

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
I agree with Nick that you probably need a lawyer (not that I don't agree with the rest of the posters. There are some good ideas, suggestion there).

My question is have they sent any documents proving that you were over paid? Have the sent you a list of payments to you so that you can go through them and match them with your records? Did they give you the total they paid out to you? Does it match the total you received? It seems to me it's just a book keeping error (probably on their part as from what you say they don't sound too organized).

Oh, & BTW can we change the protagonists name from Bob to... I don't know... Harold?

menace 24.02.2011 13:07

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nickatbasel (Post 1112575)
I would advise Bob to take professional legal advice and to take anything the armchair lawyers on here type with a pinch of salt.

I can recommend Gabrielle Grether (http://www.gmacg.com) - she speaks v. good English and advises many freelancers - including expats.

Cheers,
Nick

Thanks - Bob wants to know is she expensive? Does the first hour's advice come free!?

I suppose he should look at her website first...

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 1112746)
I reckon that's the way to play - or rather not play it.

The payroll company are at this stage "threatening legal action involving "swindle and fraud and a warrant" [for Bob's arrest]."

Let them try. This requires time, effort, money and documentary evidence. Sounds like they have little or none of any of these. If they really do proceed, then seek legal advice...

I knew we'd find something harmonious bewteen us eventually. Thanks...unless you and Ade are trying to set Bob up, ha ha ha

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrianlondon (Post 1112679)
Well, unless it gets to "We Break Legs Ltd" you ignore that, too.

That would bring some much-needed relief into the daily monotony of life. Bob could hire the local so what? so do we from Croydon

Quote:

Originally Posted by miniMia (Post 1112991)
I agree with Nick that you probably need a lawyer (not that I don't agree with the rest of the posters. There are some good ideas, suggestion there).

My question is have they sent any documents proving that you were over paid? Have the sent you a list of payments to you so that you can go through them and match them with your records? Did they give you the total they paid out to you? Does it match the total you received? It seems to me it's just a book keeping error (probably on their part as from what you say they don't sound too organized).

Oh, & BTW can we change the protagonists name from Bob to... I don't know... Harold?

Good questions...no They've not provided any evidence whatsoever. They do lack organisation, and moral fibre.

They are however being pursued by the agency, who apparently also made an erroneous payment to them, and who have been in touch with Bob, threatening legal action against the payroll company. Should Bob bother to explain to the Agency that no overpayment has been made to him? He was always on better terms with the agency than the payroll company, as they helped him recover his debts [from the payroll company].

I suppose Bob could change his name by deed poll to Harold...but why would he want to do that?

miniMia 24.02.2011 13:19

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1115137)

Good questions...no They've not provided any evidence whatsoever. They do lack organisation, and moral fibre.

They are however being pursued by the agency, who apparently also made an erroneous payment to them, and who have been in touch with Bob, threatening legal action against the payroll company. Should Bob bother to explain to the Agency that no overpayment has been made to him? He was always on better terms with the agency than the payroll company, as they helped him recover his debts [from the payroll company].

I suppose Bob could change his name by deed poll to Harold...but why would he want to do that?

Of course. They need to show what was overpaid. They can't possibly think that just saying "hey Bob, we over paid" is justification of anything at all.... BTW, Bob owes me money too.

Even though they sound like bozos, the first thing I would do is write them a nice letter stating that of course you want to settle the issue and if they could please provide you with the list of payments; amounts and dates, as well as the account to which it was paid so that you can reconcile them with your records. Then go from there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1115137)

I suppose Bob could change his name by deed poll to Harold...but why would he want to do that?

In you first post you didn't sound that committed to the name Bob. I like Harold better. Just think about it.

menace 24.02.2011 15:25

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
You're right of course. The name has been changed to protect the innocent. If we started mucking about changing it again, it might just confuse the issue further. Besides, Harold might be too close for comfort to the original name, which would negate the..well, you get the idea.

Bob thinks he might just write the email below in reply to the one recieved from the agency (below below) who overpaid the payroll company and are considering suing them, explaining that he has not been overpaid at all, but if the payroll company would like to send him copies of all the payments they made to Bob in total, and what they think they should have paid him as per the agreed daily rate and duration of contract, he will gladly point out where they went wrong, and of course share his findings with the agency, in order that they know where the cause of the problem lies.

He is considering calling Neil at IT Folk, who he knows reasonably well, to explain this first.

Dear Matthew

I am surprised and shocked by these allegations, although of course I had previously been made aware by mail that IT Folk had overpaid Gobo.

As you are no doubt aware, Gobo, Bobbins, or whatever they call themselves these days, were completely unprofessional in their service to me, paying me both late and less than was due on many occasions, as Neil can confirm. It took a great deal of effort on Neil's part, for which I am eternally grateful, to ensure that the full amount I was owed was eventually paid to me, although even that was a couple of hundred pounds short.

The only reason I was aware of these discrepancies is that I kept detailed records on what should have been and what was paid to me by said payroll company, records that I shared regularly with Neil to help eventually extract the correct payment, so I can say with absolute conviction and certainty that no overpayment was made to me whatsoever.

As to the letters, I have received nothing from Gobo, and I nor anyone else have signed for any recorded deliveries to my address. If Gobo were to send me detailed records of all the payments they made to me, alongside what they believe I should have been paid as per the agreed daily rate and duration of contract, taking into account the agreed rises to the daily rate, I shall be happy to point out their errors, as myself and Neil did every month during the contract.

For the record, Gobo's services were by far the worst and most shoddy I have ever had the misfortune to experience.

thank you

warm regards

Bob

Subject: Payments
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011
From: Matthew Mulberry
To: Bob Roberts

Good Afternoon Bob,

I hope you are well.

I have been made aware of a situation of overpayment to your management company and in turn (allegedly) to yourself by your management company for services for the period April 2010.

Your management company were paid 2 sums which they in turn are saying they paid to you.

They are also stating that they have sent you recorded letters asking you to respond and in turn pay the overpayment back. They have proof and acknowledgement of receipt for letters that they sent.

I would strongly advise you to speak to your management company in relation to this alleged over payment as they are in the process of taking legal proceedings against you to recoup their loss

I would also request that you contact myself or one of my colleagues at IT Folk if you feel that this is not the case, before we in turn take further action

I look forward to your call

Kind regards

Matthew

Matthew Mulberry
Assistant Director
IT Folk

What do y'all think?

Phil_MCR 24.02.2011 15:33

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1115433)
You're right of course. The name has been changed to protect the innocent. If we started mucking about changing it again, it might just confuse the issue further. Besides, Harold might be too close for comfort to the original name, which would negate the..well, you get the idea.

I think Bob might just write an email to the agency who overpaid the payroll company and are considering suing them, explaining that he has not been overpaid at all, but if the payroll company would like to send him copies of all the payments they made to Bob in total, and what they think they should have paid him as per the agreed daily rate and duration of contract, he will gladly point out where they went wrong, and of course share his findings with the agency, in order that they know where the cause of the problem lies.

What do y'all think?

sounds good to me. and since we're being swiss about it, once it's over, don't forget to send an invoice for the time spent on this ;)

menace 24.02.2011 16:02

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 1115453)
sounds good to me. and since we're being swiss about it, once it's over, don't forget to send an invoice for the time spent on this ;)

Well, I'm not Swiss, and neither are they, but if I can do this, can I also invoice them for all the time spent previously correcting their mistakes.

In all seriousness...can I add to the letter that I will of course charge them for my time?

miniMia 24.02.2011 16:40

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
I really do think it is a matter of miscommunication or that Gobo is holding on to the money making ITFolks' problem is with Gobo and not you.

Personally, I would take out anything that is overly emotional like "shocked" and "the worst" "and whatever they are calling themselves" etc. Best if you keep it business like using "surprised", "Gobo AKA Bobbins" or "previously Bobbins", "working with them was difficult" "will find another company better suited to..." those kinds of things.

Oh, one more thing in the first sentence so you mean ITFolks sent mail/post/letter or email?

PS, I hope you know I'm joking about the name. I would be fun to be psychic. I'd play the lottery. :)

AbFab 24.02.2011 18:36

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1115137)
I knew we'd find something harmonious bewteen us eventually. Thanks...unless you and Ade are trying to set Bob up, ha ha ha

I was helping Bob out - NOT YOU...

NotAllThere 24.02.2011 19:50

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Possibly a similar situation to this.

Perhaps they've not deducted taxes they should have done, and are now trying to claw it back.

menace 25.02.2011 12:59

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miniMia (Post 1115592)
Oh, one more thing in the first sentence so you mean ITFolks sent mail/post/letter or email?

PS, I hope you know I'm joking about the name. I would be fun to be psychic. I'd play the lottery. :)

Good advice, ta very much, for all of it I mean, not just the sub quote. I'm a pretty emotional, passionate buy really, not that I cry or anything, but bwoy, I couldn't stand ignorance or incompetetance.

Yeah ITFolk sent Bob an email, it was the email below Bobs reply, the one he replied to.

Oh no, sorry, you don't mean that. yeah before all this kicked off Bob got a letter from ITfolk that was a copy of one they'd sent Gobo saying they'd overpaid and asking for the money back.

Bob knows you were joking ho ho ho

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 1115782)
I was helping Bob out - NOT YOU...

Ha ha, Bob sends his heartfelt gratitude. As do I, as his friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 1115827)
Possibly a similar situation to this.

Perhaps they've not deducted taxes they should have done, and are now trying to claw it back.

yeah, if Bob understands it correctly, that was why the contract was so convulated in the first place, as to be able to work in Switzerland for over six months without paying backdated taxes from the beginning of your contract you have to be employed and billed by a Swiss company from the start, or something like that, right? So they knew about that from the start and in fact that was why Bob was coerced into getting into bed with them, much to his chagrin. Anyway, I'm pretty sure they're after the money from Bob cos ITFolk are after the money from them.

miniMia 25.02.2011 18:47

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1116576)
Good advice, ta very much, for all of it I mean, not just the sub quote. I'm a pretty emotional, passionate buy really, not that I cry or anything, but bwoy, I couldn't stand ignorance or incompetence.

I'm with you which is why I don't work in the "corporate world" anymore. Filled with incompetence! ;) (no offense to you working bees! I'm sure you're the exception). But 'just the facts' is probably the best approach. You don't want to look like a drama queen. cool calm & collected is a better approach. :)


Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1116576)
Yeah ITFolk sent Bob an email, it was the email below Bobs reply, the one he replied to.

Oh no, sorry, you don't mean that. yeah before all this kicked off Bob got a letter from ITfolk that was a copy of one they'd sent Gobo saying they'd overpaid and asking for the money back.

I just meant in this sentence:
"I am surprised and shocked by these allegations, although of course I had previously been made aware by mail that IT Folk had overpaid Gobo. "

It seems like letters, registered letters and emails are flying back & forth, all are technically mail. Just be clear what kind of mail.

Wish Bob luck.

menace 26.02.2011 13:17

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miniMia (Post 1117084)
I'm with you which is why I don't work in the "corporate world" anymore. Filled with incompetence!

Yeah, neither do I at the moment, and I'd love that to be through my choice, but unfortunately I can't rest on my laurels forever. I am trying to get a position in the UN with the World Food program, but, failing that and a few other public-spirited irons I have in the fire, I'm afraid I will be forced into joining the corporate wiorld of incompetance once again - if I can.

miniMia 26.02.2011 15:22

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1117490)
Yeah, neither do I at the moment, and I'd love that to be through my choice, but unfortunately I can't rest on my laurels forever. I am trying to get a position in the UN with the World Food program, but, failing that and a few other public-spirited irons I have in the fire, I'm afraid I will be forced into joining the corporate wiorld of incompetance once again - if I can.

good luck! let us know how it turns out.

menace 10.03.2011 19:50

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Bob's not heard anything yet - however he could do with a P45 from them. Probably got no chance really, has he? Don't suppose it matters does it? Will he get away with a P46?

menace 12.04.2011 20:43

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Bobs still getting the same letters

miniMia 12.04.2011 21:02

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1167632)
Bobs still getting the same letters

Really? Have they sent you justifications for this overpayment? Did you call them?

menace 07.05.2011 13:07

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Really really. They didn't send me anything, just Bob. Obviously I haven't called them, as far as I know niether did Bob. I believe he passed a message on to them through a third party asking for justicication. Naturally, he hasn't as yet received any, at least not as far as I know. Just more of the same letters. Mind you, it's been at least a month since the last one.

miniMia 07.05.2011 17:13

Re: Legal Action for overpayment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by menace (Post 1189184)
Really really. They didn't send me anything, just Bob. Obviously I haven't called them, as far as I know niether did Bob. I believe he passed a message on to them through a third party asking for justicication. Naturally, he hasn't as yet received any, at least not as far as I know. Just more of the same letters. Mind you, it's been at least a month since the last one.

I think Bob really, really should get them on the phone. It might be a month since the last one because they sent it to collections. Tell Bob to call them and insist they send a list the payments/missing payments/double payments, etc so you can compare them to your records.

Good luck! (get on the phone. don't ignore it.)


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:22.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0