Well from my point of view, the odds don't look great: It can't be a very urgent need if they've let it hang on for so long and if there is an internal candidate around as well, I'd say it is more a case of bring the thing to a close.

Money is still tight at UBS by all accounts, so expecting a manager to go back to his boss and getting an extra 10% for a position that appears not to be too urgent, might be a bit too much!

I'd would say that if you are really not too pushed about getting the job, then give it a go, otherwise if the salary is reasonable by market standards go for it.

Jim

I agree. First, because they've taken 6 months to get back to you. Second, most of the times they prefer internal candidates over external ones. It may happen that if you ask for a raise they rethink and withdraw the offer - only to offer it to the internal candidate(if there is one) who is willing to work in the same salary band

Congratulations on the new job offer.

Going by industry standards on moving between jobs, your next one should atleast offer 10-15% hike from your previous one.
If UBS offers that on default, you could try negotiating an additional 5%.

If you end up getting a 20% raise, its a fair one, I assume.

Anyways, wish you luck on the negotiations and the new job.

Cheers,

Hey TheAvenger,

Did you ended up negotiating the salary with UBS?
Can you please share your experience?

Thanks

What is the range for an AD at UBS in today’s market? I offered 130K-150K and they went for the lower range. I could have asked for more.

Obviously, in your case, Chf 130-150k

Earlier in the discussion someone said the following, not sure if it changed much since then.

Then you needed to be more specific with your salary expectations, and have a bottom rung below which you would not take the job.

You also haven't stated what kind of role you were applying for / level of responsibility etc which would be a factor in the offer.

Rgds,
Nick

To my knowledge your upper figure is close to the salary cap of the rank.

I mean no harm but in my experience the AD designation is given at UBS to people that are considered of no value to the organisation.

To give you an example software engineers with just 3 years of experience will routinely be handed AD when many people are still AD at UBS despite having 15/ 20 years of experience.

It's a "junk drawer" designation and I'd advise you to not take the offer if you have more than 10 years of experience.

So you told them you'd be happy with a number between 130k and 150k and you're surprised they offered you 130k? I wouldn't expect many companies to altruistically say even though you'll work for less they will pay you more. If you wanted more, you should have said so.

Anecdotally, I hear that the big banks are pushing their salary bands down or at least rarely making offers near the top of the band, so it doesn't sound like a bad offer to me and is pretty strong for that corporate title.

Authorised officer is one rung below AD and that pays 120k plus 1 weeks salary as 'bonus'. AD is normally at least 140k.

Nah 140k is fairly high for an AD.....many on like 120k, maybe you're confusing with D? (VP in other places...)

It's been a while since I saw the pay scales in UBS, but from what I remember AO, AD etc... are just external titles and there is another scale used for salary ranges. Either way, you are talking about the top end of the scale rather than the typical salary.

There is a correlation though between the scales and the corporate titles.

I don't believe for one second that the standard pay for bottom of the ladder is 120k and I'd be surprised if the top of the scale went that high.

When I left UBS back in 2014, NO (Non-Officer) was bottom of the food chain, then AO (Authorised Officer) then AD (Associate Director). AD was basically the first respectable grade (those below it didn't even qualify for such things as fleet discounts).

That I know, AD is by no means a respectable grade at UBS:

"Employees get pushed to AD but are pulled to DI" is what I was told many times by different managers and it makes sense in my experience.

You will find employees with 3 to 20 years of experience at AD level.

That is, you'll have a delivery/ project manager with 15 years of experience and 20 direct reports at AD while at the same time a newly hired software engineer with 3 years and no responsibility will also be handed AD.

I was told this used to be different in the past but probably because attrition they've devaluated the AD designation.

I know graduates entering as AO at around 80k - 90k, so definitely.

This is in the AML and DD unit. I have a decade worth of experience, AML investigations and so on. Not in banks, though. Someone in the thread suggested not to take up an AD role if one has more than 10 years of work experience. But would a bank offer anything higher to someone who hasn’t worked in a bank?

As I said before the problem with AD at UBS is that they've devalued the designation and outsiders don't know it .

Any engineer I've seen with more than 3 years of experience has entered at AD level regardless of their responsibility/ role.

The moment you accept AD you'll probably have to wait for a promotion to DI for about 3 to 5 years as the promotion process is highly political and depends on who you know rather on how you perform. Your tenure at the bank making contacts towers above your experience or performance.

That's why it's essential you don't make the mistake of entering in the wrong rank and remember internal mobility is a lateral mobility program by the bank for the bank.

Let me give you some examples so that you understand my point.

You've got 10 years of experience and after working for some time you realize your rank is not in like with your skills. Then the bank opens another position at DI level (you can see the rank in the internal job board) for which you're the perfect fit. You apply and are selected as the best candidate after passing the same interview process any external would...yet the bank won't allow you to become DI.

Even when the role is advertised at DI level and you're supported by your performance and/ or line manager HR will say no. They'll be "generous" enough to allow you to take the position with your same rank and salary and you will only be allowed to change rank during the evaluation period (which with a new Line Manager you might expect in other 3 to 5 years again) . Any external candidate passing the same interview process you did would however get the DI even when he was far less experienced or less qualified.

Moreover If you leave the company you won't be allowed to come back with any other rank until 2 years later regardless of your qualifications or being the best for a role. Truth be told, it could actually happen after a year but the hiring manager would need a special permission to allow you go back with another rank.

My advice to you is simple: don't be afraid to say no and wait for another suitable role with a rank linked to your experience. The first recruitment process is the last time you'll be evaluated according to your skills...after that it's just politics.

Finally, the company is great but their HR is everything but honest (they're not even in Switzerland) and they will try to hire you on a lower rank

I hope this helps you make a decision.

This is the reality at UBS.

AD salary max is CHF 145K. They will certainly try to hire you with a smaller salary to increase your salary over time still as AD.