Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 17.04.2011, 21:04
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ticino
Posts: 3,078
Groaned at 96 Times in 67 Posts
Thanked 4,054 Times in 1,611 Posts
Snoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: ABB interview and salary advice

Quote:
View Post

Honestly (without wanting to be mean) I don't think you have too much of a bargaining power. Your degrees come from decent universities but I don't see how someone in Switzerland would prefer them to a degree from the ETHZ or the EPFL. The fact that you seem to be non-european (Lebanese would be my guess) means that they have to get the permit for you (yes, it is easier for big companies but they will still play that on you).

For those in the field, is there a lack of engineers in Switzerland? can't they find enough people in France and Germany? or they just want to keep salaries low? (honest question, really, not trying to be a troll).
If he is being interviewed and has the qualifications he has a good a chance as anyone at getting the job. The labour market in these areas is fairly dry at the moment. Any slack that was there during and immediately after the crisis has gone.

Also, ABB is not particularly known for low-balling. Someone I know (a school leaver with good qualifications) has just been subjected to the most demeaning experience at the hand of "reputable" companies wanting to offer "internships" at slave wages with the prospect of a firm job after a year, or two. That is not something that ABB does as far as I know. ABB tends to pay people what the job is worth wherever they come from.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Snoopy for this useful post:
  #62  
Old 17.04.2011, 21:26
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Poland
Posts: 18
Groaned at 4 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
orchiles has no particular reputation at present
Re: ABB interview and salary advice

Quote:
View Post
Someone I know (a school leaver with good qualifications) has just been subjected to the most demeaning experience at the hand of "reputable" companies wanting to offer "internships" at slave wages with the prospect of a firm job after a year, or two. That is not something that ABB does as far as I know. ABB tends to pay people what the job is worth wherever they come from.
This is very true! 2 month ago I was offered a 6 month internship starting July in France by a famous steel company and the wage was very low and with no guarantee for a full time job after that.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 18.04.2011, 02:15
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: ABB interview and salary advice

Quote:
View Post
After living in Switzerland for a few years you start learning how discrete they are with certain things... to the point that people here would even avoid naming the company they currently work for in linkedin (just an example).

As many others mentioned the best advice I can give you is to omit the details that make you easily identifiable...

Humbleness is also appreciated in Switzerland. At your age and with your qualifications you might feel the sky is the limit but here you soon realize that there are LOTS of people that are at least as good as you (and have much better qualifications)... it is good to show motivation but try to listen when others talk first.

Honestly (without wanting to be mean) I don't think you have too much of a bargaining power. Your degrees come from decent universities but I don't see how someone in Switzerland would prefer them to a degree from the ETHZ or the EPFL. The fact that you seem to be non-european (Lebanese would be my guess) means that they have to get the permit for you (yes, it is easier for big companies but they will still play that on you).

For those in the field, is there a lack of engineers in Switzerland? can't they find enough people in France and Germany? or they just want to keep salaries low? (honest question, really, not trying to be a troll).

If they offer the job, ask for a bit more of what they say and take it. It doesn't really matter how low the salary is, after a year or two you will have experience in the country, you will speak the language and you will know how much you are worth. Then you can look for something else and get what you deserve.

Good luck
ABB is listed as a Swiss- Swedish company with an American CEO? It's not really Swiss is it? I think that the KaffeeKlatsh go gipffeli go esse - apero is out. Perhaps you should learn some Swedish too!
Yes, there is a lack of top Swiss engineers- how many engineering universities are there in CH compared to the US or UK? Engineering is a very important industry to CH. Besides they have to have those who are fluent in English- it's a must. Perhaps not at the masters level, but look at where ABB does business and then think of why they need to employ a diverse workforce.
There is a place for humility in any job where you are a newbie, but not especially because it is Switzerland. If you have think that you need to adopt the attitude that you must be humble for not being Swiss, Switzerland is not for you, you will become a doormat.
I believe that you can get what you deserve through ABB.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 18.04.2011, 05:27
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Geneva
Posts: 111
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 59 Times in 42 Posts
terco has earned some respectterco has earned some respect
Re: ABB interview and salary advice

Quote:
Yes, there is a lack of top Swiss engineers- how many engineering universities are there in CH compared to the US or UK? Engineering is a very important industry to CH
I totally agree with you, a degree from MIT, Stanford, Oxford will certainly give you an advantage. A dual French/Polish degree? I don't know. I don't want to be rude but it's exactly that: I don't know (I have never met anybody from those schools). In my personal opinion it is not advantage. It is not a problem either, as I said the universities he mentions are quite decent so it shouldn't be a handicap. Since he got an interview I believe that point is clear...

Quote:
There is a place for humility in any job where you are a newbie, but not especially because it is Switzerland. If you have think that you need to adopt the attitude that you must be humble for not being Swiss, Switzerland is not for you, you will become a doormat.
I never said humble for not being Swiss... I sad humble because that is the impression I get from swiss people. I have lived in France and in Geneva (+ another 3 countries). I can tell you for sure that certain boastful french behavior is frowned upon in Switzerland. The same can be said about a few United Staters (yes... I do have great friends from both countries).

My advice was simply: show motivation but be willing to listen to what people say.

The only thing that would be worse to believing you are inferior is believing you are superior. Nothing I hate more than a jerk that thinks he is a genius because he got a job in Switzerland and is now earning 2/3/4/5 times more than his friends (nothing against the people in the thread... I am sure we have all crossed somebody like that and I just wanted to make my point clear).
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank terco for this useful post:
  #65  
Old 18.04.2011, 11:06
SusieM's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Bern
Posts: 67
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 47 Times in 23 Posts
SusieM has no particular reputation at present
Re: ABB interview and salary advice

As a bit of an aside, ABB is contracted to do all of the maintenance on the Hydro generation stations down the Waikato River in New Zealand.

Perhaps you could slip that into the interview somewhere and impress them with how much you know about the company...

Anyway. Good luck. Let us know how you get on.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank SusieM for this useful post:
  #66  
Old 18.04.2011, 15:01
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: ABB interview and salary advice

Quote:
View Post
A dual French/Polish degree? I don't know. I don't want to be rude but it's exactly that: I don't know (I have never met anybody from those schools). In my personal opinion it is not advantage.
I have decided to go back to college 3rd career change! I just wrote a 30- page essay on undergrad education in different countries. It was interesting. Last week the college had a visit from a panel of Russian educators, apparently the Russian university system is going through restructuring, so they are looking at other systems globally. It was quite funny though.- disagreements about private v public education, pure sciences v liberal arts, goverenment funding. The Russian seems to be heavily into mining engineering, at least it seemd that way perhaps becuase the main speaker was a mining engineer (now lecturer). He told us that Russian mining engineering is the best in the world- so I had to set him straight
However most of the Americans in the audience couldn't get over the fact that University education was free in Russia. One asked " which are the elite universities" the answer being the public universities of course.
ABB actually has its own " university" in Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 18.04.2011, 16:32
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Geneva
Posts: 111
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 59 Times in 42 Posts
terco has earned some respectterco has earned some respect
Re: ABB interview and salary advice

Hoppy, do you thing I could get a copy of that report?

My knowledge is based on empirical evidence (i.e. rumors) so it would be quite interesting to see something relatively serious about the issue.

Of course Russian universities are the best for Russians... ask any French and he will tell you how ENS/EP/Whatever is the best school in the world but since people don't understand the system they just don't know how to place them. Btw, I have heard the same about the IITs, Todai and many others...

The best university is what is best for you, especially if you have to (or can) fork out 50k a year for the privilege.

Whats is ABB's 'university' btw? Never heard of it
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 18.04.2011, 23:23
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: ABB interview and salary advice

Quote:
View Post
Hoppy, do you thing I could get a copy of that report?

My knowledge is based on empirical evidence (i.e. rumors) so it would be quite interesting to see something relatively serious about the issue.

Of course Russian universities are the best for Russians... ask any French and he will tell you how ENS/EP/Whatever is the best school in the world but since people don't understand the system they just don't know how to place them. Btw, I have heard the same about the IITs, Todai and many others...

The best university is what is best for you, especially if you have to (or can) fork out 50k a year for the privilege.

Whats is ABB's 'university' btw? Never heard of it
Well here's one link but basically they have training centers which they call universities all over the US, Europe and I think Dubai

http://www.abb.com/cawp/abbzh253/760d47ada2874e82c12576d9003411c0.aspx

I'm not sure which report you mean, but my paper is with my lecturer waiting to to be graded. I'm sure some on the EF would have fun ripping it apart, so I'd better not post it!

Otherwise there is this- kind of funny- I thought of asking the Russian panel but it's rude to ask such questions of guests. This is from QS though so to be taken with a pinch of salt. Part of my paper was about University Rankings!


Quote:
Introducing the EGE is part of Russia’s commitments as a member of the Council of Europe, under the Bologna Convention on Higher Education. Besides its strategic role, this education reform is expected to introduce an unbiased, consistent and measurable method of evaluating students before they enter universities.

The intentions behind EGE are apparently the best, but people are still protesting; the main subjective reason being that it completely substitutes the once glorious Soviet education system, which was very focused on science and produced bright minds. Unfortunately the reality is that the former Soviet system has been lagging behind the rest of the world for quite some time and Russia has been losing its best high-school graduates in favour of Germany, US and UK. A reform was thus necessary. A more believable reason to reject the new EGE is that it has caused even more corruption, particularly in schools. Teachers were caught taking the exams in place of students for 40000 rubles.
http://iu.qs.com/2011/02/15/russia%E...cation-reform/
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 24.04.2011, 12:06
dblacklion's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 159
Groaned at 6 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 78 Times in 55 Posts
dblacklion has slipped a little
Re: ABB interview and salary advice

Well, I have had a lot of fun while reading... As being an insider
see the following advises;

1- Do not expose ur Resume / CV before you have the interview. If you do so, you will understand the meaningless grinning at HR's face during the interview. The world is small, Switzerland is even smaller.

2- ABB Human REsources does not negotiate any salary with 23 years old, non-experience graduate. Even a policy they normally do not, they only negotiate the benefits (transport, german classes, etc etc)
We have graduate / Talent Pool programs, and salaries are fixed and under FEderal Governement protection. Which means you can not paid under or above what you should be paid. Otherwise you will never get a work permit which is already though nowadays.

3- Do not oversell yourself, Trust me; HR persons in an engineering company like ABB Or Alstom who deal with thousands of engineers everyday etc... They know all the tricks, strengths, threats and so on. Prepare yourself the question why you dont wanna countinue on Academic Career? Be honest, and speak up. Demonstrate yourself that you will be a star in the future.

now I gotta go, let us know what happens
good luck
cheers
D
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dblacklion for this useful post:
  #70  
Old 24.04.2011, 12:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ticino
Posts: 3,078
Groaned at 96 Times in 67 Posts
Thanked 4,054 Times in 1,611 Posts
Snoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: ABB interview and salary advice

Quote:
View Post

2- ABB Human REsources does not negotiate any salary with 23 years old, non-experience graduate. Even a policy they normally do not, they only negotiate the benefits (transport, german classes, etc etc)
We have graduate / Talent Pool programs, and salaries are fixed and under FEderal Governement protection. Which means you can not paid under or above what you should be paid. Otherwise you will never get a work permit which is already though nowadays.
Well as an insider you would also know that it is the line management that has the final say with regard to salary (within the appropriate salary band) and not HR....

Also, whilst HR weeds out candidates that clearly do not meet the job specs and meets with candidates, it is line management that finally selects who they want to meet with and who gets to go to a second round and who gets the job offer.

Ultimately, whichever way you slice or dice it, the candidate has to convince the line manager that he/she should get the job offer. If you can convince HR too that's a bonus, but the line manager is the decision-maker.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Snoopy for this useful post:
  #71  
Old 24.04.2011, 16:25
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: ABB interview and salary advice

When they see unusual promise companies move fast to grab it, but I am thinking more at PhD rather than masters level. So this is for PhD- but may be useful- you can never be too over prepared.

HR will look at integrity or communication issues.

Usually the process starts with a phone interview 10-15 minutes. It may not be the hiring manager, it will be someone who has gone through your CV with a toothcomb and knows your subject area well.

If you get through that then it is a phone interview with a panel, which can range anywhere from 20 minutes to 45 minutes.

If you get through that then they bring you in. The interview can last one or two days. The interview starts with you presenting you work, presentations you have given, papers written etc.

Then you will meet individually with prospective peers or specialists with whom you will work. They work as a team and will be looking for what you bring to their team. They will show you around ( being careful not to break integrity) and chit-chat. If you have lied, or embellished your CV they will find out about it. They don't take kindly to BS. From the questions you ask they will know how knowledgeable you are, and how much drive you have. They will also probably find out if you have had an insider prep you. If during this process any red flags are raised they will cut the whole thing short. The individual interviews can take anywhere from 30- 40 minutes each with up to 5 or 6 people. So perhaps 4-5 hours. Most of them are very experienced at doing this and their opinion respected by the manager.

In between there will be reporting back to the panel, hiring manager, lunch etc.

The next day you are usually with HR.While interviewers meet and thrash it out. If they want to go above the salary band/range (it's rare) then the hiring manager will have to convince his manager and HR, why you are mindblowingly special. e.g you have discovered and proved something which is patentable, proven and valuable. They can also add bonuses incentives etc. But only if you have something irreplaceable that gives the company an edge over the competition.

The most important thing is not to lie on the CV. Remember that the people interviewing you may also change jobs and if you have lied on your CV, then apply to another company, you may come up against them again.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #72  
Old 27.04.2011, 20:28
dblacklion's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 159
Groaned at 6 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 78 Times in 55 Posts
dblacklion has slipped a little
Re: ABB interview and salary advice

Quote:
View Post
Well as an insider you would also know that it is the line management that has the final say with regard to salary (within the appropriate salary band) and not HR....

Also, whilst HR weeds out candidates that clearly do not meet the job specs and meets with candidates, it is line management that finally selects who they want to meet with and who gets to go to a second round and who gets the job offer.

Ultimately, whichever way you slice or dice it, the candidate has to convince the line manager that he/she should get the job offer. If you can convince HR too that's a bonus, but the line manager is the decision-maker.

Well that is exactly what I tried to say, HR does not negotiate salary.
In addition even it is so obvious that Line Manager decides the salary, he has "the limits" as you said a salary band within the group. I remember couple of times that Line Managers would like to hire and "refused by HR". So it is kind of a political game. Basicly Line Manager makes the hiring decision but still not very flexible and/or has big influence on salary decisions. Tested and Approved )

cheers
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Telephone Interview Advice michaelharvey Employment 8 14.10.2011 06:46
Entry level audit interview in Zurich coming up. Need some advice! :) Eric_Swe Employment 0 27.06.2010 00:41
Salary Advice - Quick help please! NIGWAFC Finance/banking/taxation 19 08.09.2009 14:55
Advice for apartment interview with owner saraTG Housing in general 9 17.07.2007 15:32
ALSTOM mechanical design enginer - interview&salary info pls copac Employment 7 09.07.2007 10:51


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0