Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 06.05.2011, 10:53
Mud's Avatar
Mud Mud is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Romandie
Posts: 2,551
Groaned at 26 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 5,004 Times in 1,827 Posts
Mud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond reputeMud has a reputation beyond repute
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

Quote:
View Post
what is bidness?
Business. Yank slang, sorry .

This subject has come up numerous times on a professional forum I'm on; the ONLY time there's any agreement that time and effort should be spent on such an employee is when the slacker is young AND shows a lot of talent and aptitude. That's to say, that there will be a mutual benefit later on- employee learns how to be productive, and business profits from this productivity. If it's just a worker bee drone and it's a matter of simply hitting 'average' efficiency off he goes. There are always others to replace him who are hardworking, team players, who will appreciate and need the job.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06.05.2011, 11:09
Mowvich's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Genève
Posts: 1,422
Groaned at 28 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 1,308 Times in 607 Posts
Mowvich has a reputation beyond reputeMowvich has a reputation beyond reputeMowvich has a reputation beyond reputeMowvich has a reputation beyond reputeMowvich has a reputation beyond repute
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

I would suggest going through this professionally, just generate an individual productivity assessment report for each member of the entire team you're managing and a final analysis report to demonstrate a comparison between all members, certainly he will come up as the lowest performing individual.

Following that, just call for hands on meeting with the team to discuss what have been achieved, what needs to be addressed in the future and come up with the team productivity report at the end, that's should be your first shot to addressing to the problem.

Following that, start to assign more tasks to him by written communication ie. memo and mention if he does have any issues with this to address it directly to you, if he didn't object and a week later his performance is not adjusted and tasks are not achieved, just send him another memo indicating this and supported by facts then give it another week then write a memo supported by the previous communications and assessment report to the HR department and announce you do not need him in the team.

I think this is the most straight forward, legal and professional way to be done, it will take 3 weeks in total, it's fair and clear enough.
__________________
Silence is an argument carried out by other means.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Mowvich for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 06.05.2011, 12:13
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

Quote:
View Post
There are some big cultural differences at work here.

Firstly, whereas in British culture (one I know about), we would never complain that we had too much work. This would be tantamount to admitting that we were out of our depth and couldn't cut it. Instead we play it down with understatements like "mustn't grumble" and "not so bad".

The Swiss on the other hand are out to show how busy they are and will talk about how stressed they are and how hard they work and will resist adding to their already massive work load to show how busy they are.

Add to this he is from a conservative male-dominated society and it could be that have a female boss just doesn't sit right for him.

I would lay it on he line and tell him straight he has to straighten up or ship out. Get him to prove he can really do it...
I deffo agree that there is some cultural influence here. However, most Brits I know are also grumblers when it comes to their attitude to work. They just grumble in a different way. And in my own working experience I must say that I prefer to work with people who grumble from time to time than all happy dancing rainbow people who will continue to pretend they're happy and in control and accept more and more work until the moment they snap.

Have you considered that maybe he is out of his depth or doing too much? Maybe you don' see everything he's doing or some of his tasks are more demanding than you imagine. Maybe you could sit down with him and have him show you how he goes about doing them. Maybe he's being too meticulous and paying too much attention to detail and you could tell him what is and what isn't necessary. Maybe you could re-distribute some of his repsonsibilities to other employees and let him take on some of their's in exchange.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 06.05.2011, 13:14
oferet's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Basel
Posts: 217
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 168 Times in 76 Posts
oferet has earned the respect of manyoferet has earned the respect of manyoferet has earned the respect of many
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

rackiec,

Does your firm have an employee assessment process in place? Can't you use it to give your employee some feedback?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06.05.2011, 13:31
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,653
Groaned at 279 Times in 230 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

Marriage:

When women divorce men because they haven't changed; and men divorce women because they have.

I don't have anything constructive to add to the OP - but I like the marriage comment.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 06.05.2011, 13:40
phdoofus's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: City by the Bay
Posts: 2,357
Groaned at 96 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 3,205 Times in 1,227 Posts
phdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

Everyone knows who the slackers are.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06.05.2011, 13:54
ElggDK's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ottawa - Canada
Posts: 942
Groaned at 29 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,268 Times in 565 Posts
ElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond reputeElggDK has a reputation beyond repute
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

Quote:
View Post
So.....still mad at your ex.husband.....huh?
Quote:
View Post
The quote above is making a very valid point.
There may be something to sort out on your side before you can approach the issue impartially and correctly.

Neither nationality or a similarity to another person should be part of the equation. You've got to be totally neutral imho.

Hope it works out, the fact that you consider him kindly is a positive point. If he's smart he'll put his pride aside and consider your solicitude as an opportunity to improve.
Even though I agree with Sky I was heading down another road.

My point is just, that if you feel the urge to bad mouth your ex-husband in (semi) public, you may still be angry with him.

I would tend to believe that if you were "OK" with what happened in your marriage and how he was/is as a person doesn't mean sh!t to you now, you would not need to treat him disrespectful by mentioning one of his short commings now - huh?

Well....nevermind. It was just an odd comment to your real problem with the Swiss dude. That guy you need to fire.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank ElggDK for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 06.05.2011, 14:04
puddycat's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Luzern
Posts: 509
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 325 Times in 160 Posts
puddycat has a reputation beyond reputepuddycat has a reputation beyond reputepuddycat has a reputation beyond reputepuddycat has a reputation beyond repute
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

Quote:
View Post
Dear all,
Advice needed...I am a manager (newbie) of a few people of different nationalities - most of them get what they need to do and how to do it...except for the swiss guy..he is 28 and complains that he has too much work, but when I look at what he has..its not a lot, or very complex or difficult.. he has even told the big boss he was too busy to do something for him...the big boss then rang me up and told me to do something. ie: sack him...I have tried the approach of telling him to pull his finger out and to be proactive but then he tells me how he has really progressed and that he thinks he is doing a great job...and looks at me with these reproachful eyes....

He is a really nice decent guy and I want him to change but like my ex-husband I fear he never will so any advice before we get to the verbal warning is much appreciated....
Hi rackiec,

I agree with those saying to spell out clearly what you require from your team member. My experience with managers is that they sometimes have trouble communicating their vision and needs so the team feels directionless and 'between a rock and a hard place'.

I'm sure you're not a bad manager at all. I don't want to say that you're not able to do your job.

But from the flip-side of the coin:

I'm not a manager; I'm a 'minion' doing the work with the opposite problem. My manager, a nice (swiss) guy, and his manager (a German) tell us to offer ideas, do more, do better etc etc. When it comes to the crunch, however, they're unwilling/unable to define, objectify and measure what that is. So we end up running around like chickens with our heads chopped off trying to please them to no avail. In the end it's very disheartening and demotivating.

There's also a big focus placed on mistakes and placing blame. Perhaps you could try focussing on and telling him what he does well and get him to do more of that kind of task?

People work and perform differently in different environments (emotional and physical). Some people are thinkers and planners but could never implement the theory. Some people are doers and get overwhelmed when confronted with time or people management. What kind of worker is he do you think?

Does he have to source information from other people? Does he rely on others to get his job done? Some people are really unabe to badger others to hurry up and give them what they need - The swiss are often afraid of confrontation so if someone says, "Oh, I'm so busy and haven't done that yet!", they'll say OK and back off to give them more time.

As a manager, male or female, I think it's your job to maximise your team's skills and abilities. I would do a complete analysis of your whole team and what they can do best: Who works best with others, and if so, whom? Who works best alone? Who are planners? Who can get people to respond/act?

Trying to fit everyone in to the same mold is often quite counterproductive.

I hope it works out for you and your team.

Puddy
__________________
I didn't lose my mind. It was mine to give away - Robbie Williams
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank puddycat for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 06.05.2011, 14:19
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 581
Groaned at 42 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 262 Times in 144 Posts
Harrie Nak has earned some respectHarrie Nak has earned some respect
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

Why not talk to him and threaten to sack him, and take it from there (depending on his response)?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06.05.2011, 14:21
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 71
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 34 Times in 21 Posts
Seb70 is considered knowledgeableSeb70 is considered knowledgeableSeb70 is considered knowledgeable
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

If the Swiss guy is anything like me then he is probably bored of the job and looking for a way to get sacked.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06.05.2011, 14:27
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

Quote:
View Post

As a manager, male or female, I think it's your job to maximise your team's skills and abilities. I would do a complete analysis of your whole team and what they can do best: Who works best with others, and if so, whom? Who works best alone? Who are planners? Who can get people to respond/act?

Trying to fit everyone in to the same mold is often quite counterproductive.
Here is the sign of an excellent manager, no one person is the same and has the same motivations, perhaps he's bored and needs a different challenge? So many avenues to explore.

Involvement of staff in goals/planning and guidance+training are others
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 06.05.2011, 14:35
Hedgehog of death's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Brighton
Posts: 790
Groaned at 43 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 543 Times in 249 Posts
Hedgehog of death has a reputation beyond reputeHedgehog of death has a reputation beyond reputeHedgehog of death has a reputation beyond reputeHedgehog of death has a reputation beyond repute
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

I might be tempted to follow the big boss's advice and sack him TBH!
It's not going to get any better .....
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06.05.2011, 14:58
puddycat's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Luzern
Posts: 509
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 325 Times in 160 Posts
puddycat has a reputation beyond reputepuddycat has a reputation beyond reputepuddycat has a reputation beyond reputepuddycat has a reputation beyond repute
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

Quote:
View Post
Involvement of staff in goals/planning and guidance+training are others
Absolutely!

And when doing this, really LISTEN and process what your team has to say. There's no point in saying your team has to be proactive and make contributions if, in reality, this is never possible.

Puddy
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank puddycat for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 06.05.2011, 15:10
puddycat's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Luzern
Posts: 509
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 325 Times in 160 Posts
puddycat has a reputation beyond reputepuddycat has a reputation beyond reputepuddycat has a reputation beyond reputepuddycat has a reputation beyond repute
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

I thought Dilbert summed it up quite nicely...

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-03-06/

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank puddycat for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 06.05.2011, 15:18
HollidayG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kanton Zürich
Posts: 3,038
Groaned at 50 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 1,180 Times in 738 Posts
HollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputation
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

Quote:
View Post
perhaps the boss just doesn't understand what the employee is doing. How old are you? Have you much previous management experience?
I have had this exact same case in the past. One time, I was reorganizing our Oracle database, and the manager couldn't understand why it took so long.

We worked very long days plus a couple of weekends to meet our deadline.

You didn't say what type of work you are managing.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06.05.2011, 15:41
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Vevey
Posts: 185
Groaned at 16 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 85 Times in 47 Posts
Duncheg has made some interesting contributions
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

dunno your situation
but we have an office full of swiss (only a couple of foreigners) so basically everyone says that they're working way too hard and have too much work, then they say it's too stressful for them and they leave (themselves)
when they say "i have too much work" they actually mean that they can't leave the office at 4.30pm and / or have a couple of coffee breaks / chats during the day
i have 3 people already changed on my project, the 4th has just come we're betting on how long he'll last...
so the thing is that they have a pretty straightforward understanding of "work-life" balance and they do value their time very high regardless of how productive they are
that said, we do have a couple of Swiss who are bright and manage their duties very well, thus being well regarded in the company (although they complain as well )
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06.05.2011, 15:43
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

Some more thoughts...

The "lets fire someone before finding out that they are genuinely lazy" option.

Shows

a) The manager has no understanding of their staff in the first place.

A good manager always spends time to know, develop, mentor and listen to their staff guiding them to become more useful and productive individuals. If your staff can do your job as a manager your work is done. Time to move to the next layer.

b) Lacks training on how to correctly manage and motivate individuals

My thought = Sack the senior manager.

This school of thought is a US/UK way of dealing with problems. Ultimately leads to a company full of management morons looking at their own pay packets rather than the success of the company.

Why deal with poor managers when you can remove one individual making the manager look bad? This is why 360 degree feedback mechanisms do nothing but good.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 06.05.2011, 16:04
HollidayG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kanton Zürich
Posts: 3,038
Groaned at 50 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 1,180 Times in 738 Posts
HollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputation
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

Quote:
View Post
Some more thoughts...

The "lets fire someone before finding out that they are genuinely lazy" option.

Shows

a) The manager has no understanding of their staff in the first place.

A good manager always spends time to know, develop, mentor and listen to their staff guiding them to become more useful and productive individuals. If your staff can do your job as a manager your work is done. Time to move to the next layer.

b) Lacks training on how to correctly manage and motivate individuals

My thought = Sack the senior manager.

This school of thought is a US/UK way of dealing with problems. Ultimately leads to a company full of management morons looking at their own pay packets rather than the success of the company.

Why deal with poor managers when you can remove one individual making the manager look bad? This is why 360 degree feedback mechanisms do nothing but good.
Talking sweet to the rattlesnake in the grass doesn't make him any less
poisonous. Some employees poison the morale for the whole team, and
it is just better for them to move on.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank HollidayG for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 06.05.2011, 17:10
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: basel
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
greatforest has no particular reputation at present
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

I would think that the experience of your ex would have pointed you to the fact that you cannot change people but point out to them the benefits of changing themselves. they either consider the advice and act on it or they do not.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 06.05.2011, 18:58
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Secret
Posts: 573
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 392 Times in 201 Posts
lilith has a reputation beyond reputelilith has a reputation beyond reputelilith has a reputation beyond reputelilith has a reputation beyond repute
Re: how to handle a stubborn swiss employee

People change all the time, mostly thanks to positive reinforcement of their action - but sometimes due to the stick (rather than the carrot).

I've see a similar case - and you seem a decent boss, trying to see what can be done.
*hop on the HR box* Does your guy have clear objectives, set at the start of the year? it would make your life a lot easier, because you can review them with him, and either add to them, or show that they are not filled. Of course, there are always dozen of reasons why something took longer than planned - but if these are the objectives, well he is expected to fulfill them.

Being close to mid-year, it is the time to sit him down for an evaluation of the course. If you haven't established objectives, then pull a template of some kind out, and start working at it with him. Tell him you want to test the process, as you are thinking to start with the whole team, with a goal of transparency. then make sure they are clear and measurable (a goal such "get better at speaking in public" doesn't work, as at the end it is subjective to decide if attained or not. better to say "run 10 meetings and practice training delivery"). Measure what he can do every day, and make sure that it is full. Then, ask him to report monthly on his achievements.
*hop down from the HR box*

Good luck...
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank lilith for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swiss employee and other country business owner jmf Employment 0 12.12.2010 09:05
Official Sick leave policy for any Swiss employee:- Sammy123 Permits/visas/government 2 08.10.2010 14:09
Swiss courts. Need some advises how to handle situation... Eugene Finance/banking/taxation 45 26.03.2010 16:05
Expat vs. Swiss Contract Employee Mandalynn3 Employment 10 16.10.2009 17:47
Help! Stubborn Noisy Neighbour pmacaodh Housing in general 21 22.05.2008 09:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0